The Miss A fallacy with regards to solo promotions at JYPE

Quote from stan12345

So when it comes to JYPE and solo promotions the favourite phrase from kpop/Twice fans is "they don't want another Miss A" and for me this reason has barely ever held, so the fact that it keeps getting regurgitated with no-one thinking about it is odd to me.

You look through the career of the Miss A members and most got solo promotions, some even more than Suzy pre-debut. People only seem to remember Suzy's just because of her blowing up post Architecture 101 so ended up with the biggest/best opportunities (and within spaces kpop fans know more about like kdramas) but even JYPE will know how much of an anomaly she was. You could argue only Lee Hyori had a higher peak than her in terms of female It girls from kpop in SK.

Miss A never had good sales. Suzy blowing up like she did made her more valuable than the group as she bought in huge CF's ("10 billion won girl"). She on her own ended up being more valuable than Miss A as a group probably would have ever been. Sucks for the other members but why would that be a bad thing for the company, especially when female solos had a better record in the long run? During the early/mid 2010's when JYPE were struggling the articles out would always mention how she was one of the keys to saving the company in a way Miss A as a group probably would have never done.

Suzy blowing up was not detrimental to the company.

You then go onto Twice. They didn't have a massive start but Tzuyu was very popular with the public, JYP/JYPE all knew this. If they were so worried about what happened with Suzy why on earth would they push Tzuyu like they did in the first few months? if the flag incident didn't happen how much more of a push does she get, especially with the allure of China money which I have no doubt was heavy on the mind of the company? If Tzuyu solo is making a lot of money and more than the group that is what they'll push with the group being more one and off like Miss A were.

But then the flag scandal happens stopping any further investment into Twice's most popular asset at the time (which was a solo Tzuyu) and Twice get massive off Cheer Up. That's Twice the group. Now Tzuyu is no longer the most valuable asset, the group is and they were also big enough to now get big group endorsements. From Cheer Up onwards the rest is history. JYPE needed money, Twice the group were now incredibly popular so they pumped out release after release for years. Twice in their first 2/3 years had no time to do solo stuff as the company had a guaranteed and safe income source in group releases, especially after blowing up in Japan as well so the opportunity cost was barely considered.

They weren't ignoring solos because of Miss A/Suzy, they were just a much better, higher margin, less effort money machine as a group. Why would they pause activities for 2/3 months to build solos at a point when they need money? Why would the company take that risk? Twice didn't have the luxury of the company being in a state to think in the long term for them with regards to their careers (or their health).

Twice fostered the idea of how much money a group purely doing group activities can make (in the 2nd gen solo activities within groups thrived) and as the first ones in the new division system at JYPE in 2015, they specialised within that and found it massively profitable. JYPE are now consistently rocking large margins following that same path.

JYPE getting rid of their acting divisions/all their soloists leaving is also another example of how the approach to JYPE groups has nothing to do with Miss A but more so a general shift in the attitudes of the company coming off the success of Twice and a lack of solo success after Suzy left (and Taecyeon). They weren't particularly good at those things regardless, with Suzy being a massive anomaly and the most in demand star around. Sunmi and Baek Yerin both became bigger soon after leaving JYPE. They couldn't do squat for soloists but were faring good with groups so it took over the agenda. Not because of Miss A. Only now that they have the means again to expand and experiment you're seeing some of the newer groups branching out more as they can afford to be less risk averse.

For me, Twice still don't do any now as they spent so long needing to be a group for the company that they now only have a year left and until members start committing to renewals it doesn't make sense for the company to do it. As much as I want it for multiple reasons if I'm JYPE I wouldn't be spending money/time/effort building up Twice's solo relevance unless said member was committed to staying and therefore I'll be reaping the benefits in the long run. The groups success is at a level still where there's no need for them to take that risk yet.

JYPE's revenue diversification is poor compared to the other big entertainment companies so they need groups to provide a consistent income stream so will always take less risks outside of the safe zone that is group promotions for them now.

Long story short - Suzy blowing up probably ended up being one of the things that saved JYPE. Twice didn't do solos because the group was more profitable post-Cheer Up. Imo, now it's too late in their careers to properly start it back up unless members start committing to renewals (/ask for it). I don't think Miss A has anything to do with how Twice/other JYPE groups are promoted, it's down to circumstance and what ended up more profitable for the company who then specialised and played to their new strengths.

Display More

That’s where you are wrong, Suzy didnt save JYP like the media likes to prove 2PM sales and tours were keeping, JYP afloat, if it was Suzy , jyp wouldn’t have been close to ruins since she was still in the company before twice debut it was because 2pm was the only group they had , they needed to debut twice. Suzy just had the general public popularity. Also Suzy was given opportunities from the get go such as Mc job, then dream high role which was sohee role rightfully. Jyp will send Suzy to 15 variety shows and Miss A to one .The other miss a members were under jyp Chinese division before they added Suzy and turned them into a Kpop girl group. Min only went once on variety show before missA.

Fei once also in Korea. Did Suzy get popular from variety shows or acting jobs??? Miss A gave Suzy her initial popularity because of a hit song people were noticing Suzy , dont act like Suzy made miss a success if anything she made them a failure.

Quote from dummi

I'm confused because isn't this the same JYP that was suffering financially until the release of Twice? How exactly did Suzy solo cf save the company? If anything it just overshadowed the group and the group is what most fans are concerned with. I don't want itzy to be overshadowed by one member getting all the spotlight, but I also don't want them to have 0 solo projects and cfs, I don't think its that crazy to ask for a balance so that fans don't have to lose their favorite group in exchange for a soloist.

Exactly look at red velvet , Blackpink , SNSD, they all had solo movements but didnt overshadow the group

Quote from stan12345

For me, Twice still don't do any now as they spent so long needing to be a group for the company that they now only have a year left and until members start committing to renewals it doesn't make sense for the company to do it. As much as I want it for multiple reasons if I'm JYPE I wouldn't be spending money/time/effort building up Twice's solo relevance unless said member was committed to staying and therefore I'll be reaping the benefits in the long run. The groups success is at a level still where there's no need for them to take that risk yet.

There is still plenty ttof time left till contract renewals. Who knows if the members might change their minds if they give them solo promotions? Members like Nayeon and Sana are consistently getting love calls from luxury brands. CFs are known to make the most money after tours. I don't think JYPE needs to put any effort in this. They just need to sign the contract.

Tzuyu out viewed some of the solo releases this year. Imagine if JYPE gave her an album. Dahyun has been referenced in two Shin Won Ho's dramas. It's not too late. They don't need to build up their relevance, TWICE members are relevant enough among the public as shown in the google searches (in which majority of the members ranked). JYPE is just plain stupid to not realise their potential.

Quote from stan12345

So when it comes to JYPE and solo promotions the favourite phrase from kpop/Twice fans is "they don't want another Miss A" and for me this reason has barely ever held, so the fact that it keeps getting regurgitated with no-one thinking about it is odd to me.

You look through the career of the Miss A members and most got solo promotions, some even more than Suzy pre-debut. People only seem to remember Suzy's just because of her blowing up post Architecture 101 so ended up with the biggest/best opportunities (and within spaces kpop fans know more about like kdramas) but even JYPE will know how much of an anomaly she was. You could argue only Lee Hyori had a higher peak than her in terms of female It girls from kpop in SK.

Miss A never had good sales. Suzy blowing up like she did made her more valuable than the group as she bought in huge CF's ("10 billion won girl"). She on her own ended up being more valuable than Miss A as a group probably would have ever been. Sucks for the other members but why would that be a bad thing for the company, especially when female solos had a better record in the long run? During the early/mid 2010's when JYPE were struggling the articles out would always mention how she was one of the keys to saving the company in a way Miss A as a group probably would have never done.

Suzy blowing up was not detrimental to the company.

You then go onto Twice. They didn't have a massive start but Tzuyu was very popular with the public, JYP/JYPE all knew this. If they were so worried about what happened with Suzy why on earth would they push Tzuyu like they did in the first few months? if the flag incident didn't happen how much more of a push does she get, especially with the allure of China money which I have no doubt was heavy on the mind of the company? If Tzuyu solo is making a lot of money and more than the group that is what they'll push with the group being more one and off like Miss A were.

But then the flag scandal happens stopping any further investment into Twice's most popular asset at the time (which was a solo Tzuyu) and Twice get massive off Cheer Up. That's Twice the group. Now Tzuyu is no longer the most valuable asset, the group is and they were also big enough to now get big group endorsements. From Cheer Up onwards the rest is history. JYPE needed money, Twice the group were now incredibly popular so they pumped out release after release for years. Twice in their first 2/3 years had no time to do solo stuff as the company had a guaranteed and safe income source in group releases, especially after blowing up in Japan as well so the opportunity cost was barely considered.

They weren't ignoring solos because of Miss A/Suzy, they were just a much better, higher margin, less effort money machine as a group. Why would they pause activities for 2/3 months to build solos at a point when they need money? Why would the company take that risk? Twice didn't have the luxury of the company being in a state to think in the long term for them with regards to their careers (or their health).

Twice fostered the idea of how much money a group purely doing group activities can make (in the 2nd gen solo activities within groups thrived) and as the first ones in the new division system at JYPE in 2015, they specialised within that and found it massively profitable. JYPE are now consistently rocking large margins following that same path.

JYPE getting rid of their acting divisions/all their soloists leaving is also another example of how the approach to JYPE groups has nothing to do with Miss A but more so a general shift in the attitudes of the company coming off the success of Twice and a lack of solo success after Suzy left (and Taecyeon). They weren't particularly good at those things regardless, with Suzy being a massive anomaly and the most in demand star around. Sunmi and Baek Yerin both became bigger soon after leaving JYPE. They couldn't do squat for soloists but were faring good with groups so it took over the agenda. Not because of Miss A. Only now that they have the means again to expand and experiment you're seeing some of the newer groups branching out more as they can afford to be less risk averse.

For me, Twice still don't do any now as they spent so long needing to be a group for the company that they now only have a year left and until members start committing to renewals it doesn't make sense for the company to do it. As much as I want it for multiple reasons if I'm JYPE I wouldn't be spending money/time/effort building up Twice's solo relevance unless said member was committed to staying and therefore I'll be reaping the benefits in the long run. The groups success is at a level still where there's no need for them to take that risk yet.

JYPE's revenue diversification is poor compared to the other big entertainment companies so they need groups to provide a consistent income stream so will always take less risks outside of the safe zone that is group promotions for them now.

Long story short - Suzy blowing up probably ended up being one of the things that saved JYPE. Twice didn't do solos because the group was more profitable post-Cheer Up. Imo, now it's too late in their careers to properly start it back up unless members start committing to renewals (/ask for it). I don't think Miss A has anything to do with how Twice/other JYPE groups are promoted, it's down to circumstance and what ended up more profitable for the company who then specialised and played to their new strengths.

Display More

I understand where you coming from but Suzy wasn't the main money maker. She brought public attention to JYP for housing an A list actress. 2pm literally pushed and saved JYP back then. Twice come in and help JYPE rise even more and get them in BIG 3 ranking in Korea.

JYPE was afraid of another Miss A situation and promote Twice and other groups as group first but now we can see know how Stray Kids and Twice members have their own melody projects and even participate in their song writings.

JYPE is slowly opening up for more solo projects for their group members. However, I still don't believe any groups including Twice are going to renew contract with JYPE.

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

That’s where you are wrong, Suzy didnt save JYP like the media likes to prove 2PM sales and tours were keeping, JYP afloat, if it was Suzy , jyp wouldn’t have been close to ruins since she was still in the company before twice debut it was because 2pm was the only group they had , they needed to debut twice. Suzy just had the general public popularity. Also Suzy was given opportunities from the get go such as Mc job, then dream high role which was sohee role rightfully. Jyp will send Suzy to 15 variety shows and Miss A to one .The other miss a members were under jyp Chinese division before they added Suzy and turned them into a Kpop girl group. Min only went once on variety show before missA.

Fei once also in Korea. Did Suzy get popular from variety shows or acting jobs??? Miss A gave Suzy her initial popularity because of a hit song people were noticing Suzy , dont act like Suzy made miss a success if anything she made them a failure.

Do you have an official source to back up your claim?

I get your point but do you see snsd the part of their success is from song and individual promo that’s why they’re legendary the most biggest gg ever do you think of jyp did the same thing maybe twice will be more bigger ? And the fact that there’s a lot of groups nowadays it’s hard for them to chart like they used too? I think it’s more safer if they did it like Sm. Individual promos with group activities.

since they’re not new anymore it’s been 5 years 6 years almost they need something new going on with them individual promo will help them more.

Quote from vzal

Do you have an official source to back up your claim?

Girl I saw it when I went on netizenbuzz yesterday night when I went back like I had to go 10 years back but what is saw was jyp said sohee shouldn’t do it because he wanted wonder girls to do American promotions.

the thing about miss A how do you expect those 3 to blow up like suzy 2 from china. Koreans are crazy for visual I’m not hating just saying the truth those 3 isn’t a Korean type. Edi is good looking but she can’t talk korean and most of the time shy. While twice every one is good looking for korean taste they are better for solo promos

Quote from twicesuuuu

the thing about miss A how do you expect those 3 to blow up like suzy 2 from china. Koreans are crazy for visual I’m not hating just saying the truth those 3 isn’t a Korean type. Edi is good looking but she can’t talk korean and most of the time shy. While twice every one is good looking for korean taste they are better for solo promos

They are also Chinese, Koreans are. More liberal but then they really hated foreigners so that’s why they didnt promote. Koreans hate Chinese more than japanese

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

That’s where you are wrong, Suzy didnt save JYP like the media likes to prove 2PM sales and tours were keeping, JYP afloat, if it was Suzy , jyp wouldn’t have been close to ruins since she was still in the company before twice debut it was because 2pm was the only group they had , they needed to debut twice. Suzy just had the general public popularity. Also Suzy was given opportunities from the get go such as Mc job, then dream high role which was sohee role rightfully. Jyp will send Suzy to 15 variety shows and Miss A to one .The other miss a members were under jyp Chinese division before they added Suzy and turned them into a Kpop girl group. Min only went once on variety show before missA.

Fei once also in Korea. Did Suzy get popular from variety shows or acting jobs??? Miss A gave Suzy her initial popularity because of a hit song people were noticing Suzy , dont act like Suzy made miss a success if anything she made them a failure.

So miss a was only created to make suzy bigger than ever? People in jyp really cared for her if this is true.

Quote from atropos

So miss a was only created to make suzy bigger than ever? People in jyp really cared for her if this is true.

I would say jyp was greedy for money because he wanted Chinese money at the same time they wanted Suzy to be an it girl like yoona . Actually jyp fave was min the Korean - american the all rounder of the group, she tried acting after Suzy acting jobs as below supporting roles in two films but Koreans loved Suzy visual and jyp decided to push her.

Like sohee of wonder girls was popular but the public thought yoona was far prettier so they were quite excited with the fact that knetz thought of Suzy to be on the same level as yoon and worked on it

Quote from twicesuuuu

I get your point but do you see snsd the part of their success is from song and individual promo that’s why they’re legendary the most biggest gg ever do you think of jyp did the same thing maybe twice will be more bigger ? And the fact that there’s a lot of groups nowadays it’s hard for them to chart like they used too? I think it’s more safer if they did it like Sm. Individual promos with group activities.

SM is the best when it comes to balancing group activities/comebacks and solo promos

I think the reason JYP isn't promoting his idols individually because he wants to capitalize on the group brand which i think holds way more power than solo promotions just like how the Akb brand is bigger than the members in it but in this case it's the idols won't have enough profit from this

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

That’s where you are wrong, Suzy didnt save JYP like the media likes to prove 2PM sales and tours were keeping, JYP afloat, if it was Suzy , jyp wouldn’t have been close to ruins since she was still in the company before twice debut it was because 2pm was the only group they had , they needed to debut twice. Suzy just had the general public popularity. Also Suzy was given opportunities from the get go such as Mc job, then dream high role which was sohee role rightfully. Jyp will send Suzy to 15 variety shows and Miss A to one .The other miss a members were under jyp Chinese division before they added Suzy and turned them into a Kpop girl group. Min only went once on variety show before missA.

Fei once also in Korea. Did Suzy get popular from variety shows or acting jobs??? Miss A gave Suzy her initial popularity because of a hit song people were noticing Suzy , dont act like Suzy made miss a success if anything she made them a failure.

This is false, Min, Jia and Fei attended varieties and has special stages with idols since debut while Suzy couldn't due to her age or lack of training. Like Min especially was everywhere being promoted as Jo Kwon kkab sister. Don't you remind her working on Oh My School, Strong Heart and Star King during their debut years?

Suzy got to be an MC due to her viral popularity in Korea,nothing strange about it. And it was after the other members got to appear multiple times on TV while she couldn't.

Ofc after hitting it big Suzy would be on demand far more than the other members, but even then, the rest weren't as neglected because they still got to have radio shows, web dramas, etc

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

They are also Chinese, Koreans are. More liberal but then they really hated foreigners so that’s why they didnt promote. Koreans hate Chinese more than japanese

This is really taking knetz comments too far, korea isn't as xenophobic as you think.

During that time they also loved fx Victoria and Fiestar Cao Lu,both chinese. Victoria was everywhere to the point of having more cfs than Sulli and Krystal during some time, she was largely accepted.

Being chinese wasn't the reason Jia and Fei didn't get popular, Jia had some attitude controversies and wasn't as likeable as other chinese idols while Fei got to shine during some time and was accepted by koreans until she messed it up with her pro CCP posts.

Quote from 4d-maknae

This is really taking knetz comments too far, korea isn't as xenophobic as you think.

During that time they also loved fx Victoria and Fiestar Cao Lu,both chinese. Victoria was everywhere to the point of having more cfs than Sulli and Krystal during some time, she was largely accepted.

Being chinese wasn't the reason Jia and Fei didn't get popular, Jia had some attitude controversies and wasn't as likeable as other chinese idols while Fei got to shine during some time and was accepted by koreans until she messed it up with her pro CCP posts.

Nah, victoria didnt have more cfs than Krystal and Sulli in Korea . Are you serious right now???? Also she wasnt largely accepted , which Kpop were you watching???

Quote from 4d-maknae

This is false, Min, Jia and Fei attended varieties and has special stages with idols since debut while Suzy couldn't due to her age or lack of training. Like Min especially was everywhere being promoted as Jo Kwon kkab sister. Don't you remind her working on Oh My School, Strong Heart and Star King during their debut years?

Suzy got to be an MC due to her viral popularity in Korea,nothing strange about it. And it was after the other members got to appear multiple times on TV while she couldn't.

Ofc after hitting it big Suzy would be on demand far more than the other members, but even then, the rest weren't as neglected because they still got to have radio shows, web dramas, etc

Suzy was doing mc jobs and started acting in her debut year for dream high that aired January 2011 during her debut year what are you saying??? Jia and fei were in their home country shows not in Korea and I also said min was promoted in variety show. I followed miss a the moment they debuted, I know what i’m talking about

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

Nah, victoria didnt have more cfs than Krystal and Sulli in Korea . Are you serious right now???? Also she wasnt largely accepted , which Kpop were you watching???

Be honest, were you active during 2010-12?? Victoria was everywhere on korean tv and she even had a cf predebut with Hyunbin. WGM really made her loved and she started to get many solo cfs like caribbean bay with nichkhun

While Sulli and Krystal were also loved, they had more mixed reactions due to knetz making up attitude controversies around them. Victoria was praised for her looks, personality and cooking skills.

Quote from 4d-maknae

Be honest, were you active during 2010-12?? Victoria was everywhere on korean tv and she even had a cf predebut with Hyunbin. WGM really made her loved and she started to get many solo cfs like caribbean bay with nichkhun

While Sulli and Krystal were also loved, they had more mixed reactions due to knetz making up attitude controversies around them. Victoria was praised for her looks, personality and cooking skills.

Victoria gained popularity from wgm but she wasn’t more loved than Krystal and Sulli , even if they had mixed reactions knetz still loved the m more and I only remember her winning an award for variety show performance, most oc her cfs were from China when she hit big 2012 with her Chinese debut film. Pls list her cfs in Korea becaus I can list Krystal and Sulli’s with ease

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

Suzy was doing mc jobs and started acting in her debut year for dream high that aired January 2011 during her debut year what are you saying??? Jia and fei were in their home country shows not in Korea and I also said min was promoted in variety show. I followed miss a the moment they debuted, I know what i’m talking about

The point is all of them got to be promoted during their debut years, but sometimes Susy was the one appearing less on shows, while Min was the one everywhere and Fei and Jia did have some guesting here and there on korean shows. Everything changed after Suzy started acting but don't act like they got zero opportunities after it when that isn't the case

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

Suzy was doing mc jobs and started acting in her debut year for dream high that aired January 2011 during her debut year what are you saying??? Jia and fei were in their home country shows not in Korea and I also said min was promoted in variety show. I followed miss a the moment they debuted, I know what i’m talking about

You can look it up yourself on any wiki profile

Victoria Song - DramaWiki

Quote from 4d-maknae

The point is all of them got to be promoted during their debut years, but sometimes Susy was the one appearing less on shows, while Min was the one everywhere and Fei and Jia did have some guesting here and there on korean shows. Everything changed after Suzy started acting but don't act like they got zero opportunities after it when that isn't the case

Using what you wrote , everything changed when Suzy acting started, miss a debuted 2010

And the first drama for Suzy was 7 months after debut , Suzy got 90% of the variety show appearances afterwards so yes their opportunities in Korea was like zero it was like nothing whether you admit it or not also you said debut years , the others had promotions what dirty debut years??!? They had promotion before miss a debut jia and fei were doing back up dancers, only fei guested on variety show in Korea once alone and once with Suzy during miss a era Jia didnt even show at all.

Min was an upcoming solo artist in USA that jyp offered her a shot to join miss a and promoted her as a kkap dancer like dahyun . Pls list the many promotions they got debut years. I don’t even care since I like Suzy but some of you are acting like the opportunities were given equally which is very untrue.

Quote from 4d-maknae

You can look it up yourself on any wiki profile

https://wiki.d-addicts.com/Victoria_Song#Recognitions

Girl 95% of it was with freaking f(x) not solo , two of the solo was predebut .Wtf??????

Quote from stan12345

They have a year. Time spent doing solo prep/work is time away from group prep/work. That's the opportunity cost and one that logically as a company would only swing one way with an asset with one year left currently.

People knowing Twice members isn't going to make the public respect them as soloists/actors/etc, they need to build that. They haven't even reached that status as a group yet. Every time the group go serious the public do not take them seriously and their music success plummets. Introspective lyrics like Feel Special, written by JYP released in autumn is something you'd expect the public to like but it's one of their worst performing songs. They did their first OST for a hugely popular show, which is where vocals and the like are more accentuated and it's comfortably the worst performing OST from the show. Unless Twice are doing bright/summer songs the public don't seem to care much. Tzuyu has the biggest fanbase in Twice but also had Stray Kids fans so did well as expected.

Other than Nayeon they probably all need more investment to succeed as soloists.

Of course, they would need to build up their solo careers but they do kind of have a head start. Just their name alone would attract attention. None of the OSTs from HP season 2 are doing well, at least not on the level of season one's so I wouldn't fret over it. TWICE have done amazingly digitally and 1 flop unpromoted OST doesn't taint it in any way. All groups start to lose interest once they are over 5 years. Now, I agree that TWICE need a certain kind of concept to have hits but how many groups have successfully managed to change their concept, are in their 6th year and still growing internationally and have a decently charting song?

SKZ fans may have checked out the song but considering how he didn't appear for even a second, I don't see any reason for them to stream. The fact that it surpassed 1M says a lot about how huge Tzuyu's fandom is.

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

Girl 95% of it was with freaking f(x) not solo , two of the solo was predebut .Wtf??????

And it was still a good number, how many solo cfs did the other members had during the 2010-12 period? And even if they had more that wasn't even my point lmao you were accusing koreans of being xenophobic and saying they hate chinese idols so much but at the same time they allowed Victoria to be loved there and get so much attention? And it wasn't only her. Cao Lu also had her moment back then. miss A members just didn't have the same luck but it wasn't only due to their nationality

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

Using what you wrote , everything changed when Suzy acting started, miss a debuted 2010

And the first drama for Suzy was 7 months after debut , Suzy got 90% of the variety show appearances afterwards so yes their opportunities in Korea was like zero it was like nothing whether you admit it or not also you said debut years , the others had promotions what dirty debut years??!? They had promotion before miss a debut jia and fei were doing back up dancers, only fei guested on variety show in Korea once alone and once with Suzy during miss a era Jia didnt even show at all.

Min was an upcoming solo artist in USA that jyp offered her a shot to join miss a and promoted her as a kkap dancer like dahyun . Pls list the many promotions they got debut years. I don’t even care since I like Suzy but some of you are acting like the opportunities were given equally which is very untrue.

Jia was on korean shows before and after Suzy started acting

Like you didn't see all these shows back then?

Quote from gg-mouthpiece

That’s where you are wrong, Suzy didnt save JYP like the media likes to prove 2PM sales and tours were keeping, JYP afloat, if it was Suzy , jyp wouldn’t have been close to ruins since she was still in the company before twice debut it was because 2pm was the only group they had , they needed to debut twice. Suzy just had the general public popularity. Also Suzy was given opportunities from the get go such as Mc job, then dream high role which was sohee role rightfully. Jyp will send Suzy to 15 variety shows and Miss A to one .The other miss a members were under jyp Chinese division before they added Suzy and turned them into a Kpop girl group. Min only went once on variety show before missA.

Fei once also in Korea. Did Suzy get popular from variety shows or acting jobs??? Miss A gave Suzy her initial popularity because of a hit song people were noticing Suzy , dont act like Suzy made miss a success if anything she made them a failure.

This is pretty inaccurate.

Miss A promoted just fine before and after Suzy's success and honestly just as many hits as any other jyp gg. They, like most GG's back then, just couldn't build a strong fandom. How were they a failure?

Min was also getting better opportunities those first few years but they never went anywhere. JYP tried with them and Fei had her own decent following and a solo before her Weibo scandal.

Miss A was just not a group that got along well, whether it was the age gap, time apart, the well known income drama. It's not that Suzy was prioritized, Miss A as a whole was managed like a side group

Quote from 4d-maknae

And it was still a good number, how many solo cfs did the other members had during the 2010-12 period? And even if they had more that wasn't even my point lmao you were accusing koreans of being xenophobic and saying they hate chinese idols so much but at the same time they allowed Victoria to be loved there and get so much attention? And it wasn't only her. Cao Lu also had her moment back then. miss A members just didn't have the same luck but it wasn't only due to their nationality

Jia was on korean shows before and after Suzy started acting

External Content youtu.be

Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

Display all external content

Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

External Content youtu.be

Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

Display all external content

Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

External Content youtu.be

Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

Display all external content

Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

External Content youtu.be

Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

Display all external content

Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

Like you didn't see all these shows back then?

Display More

3/5 of it was just an appearance to dance miss a songs not a member of the show , do you even know what variety promotions was ? She was never a participant member except for dream team which was for vietnam. If that’s your definition of variety promotion then everybody is promoted in Kpop. I’m tired of this talk back and forth, lets just end it , we all know jyp promotions had a lot of impact on why miss a ended like that , it is an open secret

Quote from JaSida

I understand where you coming from but Suzy wasn't the main money maker. She brought public attention to JYP for housing an A list actress. 2pm literally pushed and saved JYP back then. Twice come in and help JYPE rise even more and get them in BIG 3 ranking in Korea.

JYPE was afraid of another Miss A situation and promote Twice and other groups as group first but now we can see know how Stray Kids and Twice members have their own melody projects and even participate in their song writings.

JYPE is slowly opening up for more solo projects for their group members. However, I still don't believe any groups including Twice are going to renew contract with JYPE.

I really don't think jyp is "scared" of a suzy situation tbh. Suzy was extremely profitable, far more so than miss A could ever be tbh.

When twice debuted jyp pushed tzuyu a lot as a solo up until the flag scandal (she even had solo cfs) so it doesn't make sense to say they were scared of a suzy situation if they were lowkey setting tzuyu up for one.

Imo it's because jyp has abysmal contract renewal rates and their groups are more profitable now than ever. From a business perspective why invest in members solo when there's a high chance they'll leave when their contract is up or you'll have to negotiate a contract that benefits the artist far more than you.

If you make your artists far more dependent on the group brand it makes them more likely to stay and the group still makes tons of money.

TWICE and miss A have never been comparable even from the start, whatever the reasons are for such a narrow focus on group activities it has nothing to do with Suzy. I don't think solo endeavors are a lost cause yet but I agree with that much.

Quote from dummi

I'm confused because isn't this the same JYP that was suffering financially until the release of Twice? How exactly did Suzy solo cf save the company? If anything it just overshadowed the group and the group is what most fans are concerned with. I don't want itzy to be overshadowed by one member getting all the spotlight, but I also don't want them to have 0 solo projects and cfs, I don't think its that crazy to ask for a balance so that fans don't have to lose their favorite group in exchange for a soloist.

JYP has been suffering since 2012. It was the time when JYP America failed miserably and this is mostly how JYP lose money, not because their artist aren't doing well but their execs made bad investment moves on the market.

2PM kept them afloat with Japan tour but 2PM renewed their contract right before their Asia tour and they probably negotiated some salary increase and higher profit division. Seemingly 2pm starts to actually really earn good money after their second contract but for JYP, it also means less profit for the company and 2PM is only helpful to get the company to stay afloat.

JYP knows money is mostly on tours and albums, and with 2PM's increased salary they needed a new group to help on the profit, so they created Got7, a group that was hustled to bring up the profit more. And in 2014 they actually did rise up to the big 3 again with Got7's Japan Debut was a success. But Got7's contract was... unique. They were set for Thailand, Chinese and Japan market so most of their contract has the 70% artist and 30% profit company for the overall earnings. And they went big in those countries including some parts of other countries as well, that they became too expensive for JYP to manage, and JYP ends up losing money to Got7 because they had to pay Got7 more and more.

Twice came about with the reminder that they shouldn't pay too much to the idols group and had a more company reasonable contract. Which is when Cheer Up became a hit, JYP also soared because they get the profit and could manage the artist without anything being too expensive. Twice was finally the group that can make them the profit that can increase their own margin. And more than the "another Suzy theory", JYP probably want to keep all of them in a group because the profit for a whole group is better.

For Suzy, she does help JYP but not save it. In my opinion, not even 2PM and Got7 saves it. Twice definitely truly saved it because they were the ones that had the more properly balanced contract (whether or not its fair to Twice, that's another story). 2PM had a negotiation for a new contract while Got7's contract was uniquely very good to the artist. Twice's contract was just nice for the company to really pull profits.

But then for Twice they got forced to forget much of solo works. Because JYP "needs to pay bills" and group works is the best to do that. Sorry to say this but JYP is still pretty much very profit only company. They had to keep 2pm so they allowed a new salary increase in the negotiation and they created Got7 only to cover up the blank profit spaces left by 2PM, only to have it backfire since Got7 became too expensive for them to manage. Twice was really their saviour.

Quote from ninichan

nah akb members get a lot of solo promotion depending on how popular they are.

my bias for instance has 5 solo single albums and 1 album, is in close to 100 units (ranging from 2-10 members), has 9 solo songs on akb albums, 2 photobooks, was in 1 movie and 12 non akb related dramas.

a less popular bias of mine has 1 solo, 2 photobooks, and was in 7 movies and 22 dramas.

but these are 1st/2nd gen akb members (in late 20s now)

akb does profit a lot on individual members

akb's working method seems to be "gather the girls at least a few will hit it big" and once they hit big they get promoted

Display More

But still the brand Akb in i itself is bigger than members in it and if you see it that way some Twice members did have solo stuff like pictorial etc...

Quote from stan12345

It is one of my current pet hates - constantly seeing people talk about Miss A when discussing Twice and their solo careers. It has never held for me.

I don't think solos are a lost cause in a sense that anyone can blow up and Twice have more name recognition than a lot of idols despite no proper solo work. I just don't think a lot of the members are set up for it well in an environment where the public already don't really see Twice as artists or talented. Everytime Twice move away from bright music the public reject it and they haven't cared for their b-sides and wider musical output in years, not even Korean Twice fans do looking at the numbers. As someone that follows a lot of Korean content you can see the connotations they are routinely linked with and none of them coincide with idols primed for solo success. It's either uncle fans/the army or kids.

It might be small things throughout but it's just a routine pattern that I get. There's a popular Korean youtube channel where they do reactions and for every 3rd gen group they get teens/young adults to react yet Twice are the only ones they get kids for. Twice mentions in variety/film/tv are usually based around visuals or a viral line they've had.

If the group are constricted by this brand of just being bright music and Twice members have no identity outside of the group as they've never really done anything individually, you wonder where that leaves them. They're all still young so have time to build an identity but you feel like none have utilised the springboard being the most popular group in the country gives you, in a way SNSD did for example. Now they're going to have to work through the already established 3rd gen stars and the 4th gen who are starting to have an impact in SK.

Not even just public perception but the members themselves due to how their career have developed. As popular as Tzuyu is (and sounded) she looked uncomfortable for half of her melody project, not really knowing what to do on screen. Cute for a second until you realise she's a 6 year "veteran" performer at this point yet doesn't look fully confident shooting a 3 minute video on her own.

Nayeon is really the only member I think can still walk into a successful career right now as she was always liked by the public for more than just something such as visuals (along with maybe Dahyun into variety). She is the face and energy of Twice with the confidence/talent to back it up and that puts her in a more advantageous position.

Display More

I agree with pretty much all of your points. Please accept my lazy response.

What bothers me the most is the non-response even after viral public criticism. I am a silly bitch who really loves their output in general but nothing has been done to combat that perception. In a perfect world (hah) all nine have their own niche either in singing, acting, modeling, etc that could have should have made an impact.

interesting