Let's test Kpop fans! Do you know what All-Rounder and ACE means?

Quote from David33

I'm not gonna tell anyone what it means, but technically, both has the same meaning, but ACE is more complex.

it means whatever a person thinks it means as long as it falls generally under the same umbrella...

the problem with meanings that everybody might have a different interpretation as to what it means and what criteria they use to justify their meaning and if one person's meaning differs to another it's just their different opinion as to what the word means

for example all rounder seems to me to indicate good at dancing, singing and rapping...other people might state all rounders should only be good in two of the three categories, others might claim that excellent in one category but okish in two others etc etc

then even with a definition the question of does a person fit within that particular definition - ie. is a person a good enough dancer and good enough singer and good enough rapper to be considered an all rounder

My faves are all aces

Quote from David33

If that's their name, I believe you, but I know their name is Day6 not ACES.😂

If you notice, Day6 rhymes with Aces the way Koreans pronounce it

I don’t think you need to be able to rap to be either an all-rounder or an ace.

Quote from David33

Sure, but ACE and All-Rounder isn't about personal taste and opinion when both has its own meaning and criteria officially.

People use these 2 description too often these days. Even companies doing it like YG with their new girl group. Even tho he said 1 of the member is an All-Rounder, they only mentioned 2 position, singing and dancing, and that's what a real All-Rounder is.

A real All-Rounder:

Singing: Good

Dancing: Decent

Rap: Decent

ACE:

Singing: Good

Dancing: Good

Rap: Good

And as I said, usually I add producing credits as well, like songwriting, producing, making choreos etc.

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so are you saying that the meanings of the words are specific but rather the application of the term is thus subjective?

as in what you said above but then when accessing whether an idol falls within those categories it's then subjective?

but then in your last sentence you mention other things not necessarily to do with the music performance side of things but why limit it to those categories why not include other aspects of being an idol such as acting or emceeing or modelling or any other idol like talents - why is all rounder category limited to just musical abilities

I use the terms as-

All rounder - someone who is better than the average kpop idol in singing, dancing and rapping.

Ace - someone who is amongst the strongest of the all rounders but also has star power. I'd probably also use it for an idol who has overwhelming star power, like someone you can build a group around.

For 4th gen it would be the likes of a Karina or Wonyoung - regardless of how you feel about their technical skills. I'd probably extend it out to a top 10-15 of idols you would consider building around if you made your own group.

Could also consider things like song writing, acting, visuals.

To be an all rounder, I'd think someone needs to be at least be 7/10 in two of the three categories and an 8/10 in one other.

Maybe one 6/10 accepted if they score 8/10 or 9/10 in the other two. So someone who really stands out in two and can serce passably in the other...

And they must do well on stage, so good stage presence, otherwise all these scores mean nothing.

An ace would be someone who scores like 8/10 or more in everything, preferably with a 9/10 somewhere there as well.

Are we going to name idols as examples as well?

In that case. spoiler:

I'd say Bang Chan, Hwasa and Jungkook are at least all rounders. Maybe Hwasa is an ace too

Edit>: the spoiler color is useless if it's going to underline the names anyway

My thread really worked very well

Quote from David33

Exactly!

For me an All-Rounder is like Hwasa, Solar, Moonbyul.

ACE has to be someone like Wheein. Top-tier vocalist and dancer, also a pretty good rapper if she does it seriously.

Yeah, I know I only named MAMAMOO members, but I don't want to do a deep research now, and honestly no one else comes to my mind right now, but there are others. There aren't man ACEs in Kpop, btw, but there are a lot of All-Rounders, but not in the MAINSTREAM side of Kpop.

I didn't want to name Idols at first because it only ignites fandom wars.😂

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Yeah, that is why I almost didn't name names.

But if we talk about it, it's good to give some examples I think.

It's fine naming Mamamoo members. They are highly talented and of course they meet my "perfomance criteria" easily.

An interesting case for me is J-Hope. He's of course an outstanding dancer, his rap is very good (in my opinion). His singing score is nowhere near those scores of course, but he can still do it to a degree. So he's very close to an all-rounder to me.

For me an all rounder is slightly above average (compared to other kpop idols) at 2 but usually 3+ things. The most basic all rounder is above slightly average at dance, facial expressions and singing/rap. The higher level of an all rounder might also be able to produce. To be an all rounder if I removed you from your current group and put you in the average kpop group you would have to be able to make it into their lead singer/rap/dance line.

For an ace, I guess generally it's if someone really excels in a certain field. But for kpop that means every main rapper or main dancer that is above average would be an ace. So for me an ace is an idol that excels in 2 things, either rap and singing or rap/singing and dance. They need to be able to already be (or have the potential to be) in the main vocal/rap and main dance line in their group. And the same needs to hold true if you moved them out of their group and into your average kpop group.

Quote from David33

Many people call Idols ACEs, because of their visuals or Star Power, especially the latter, but I don't think those should be included, because this is a music related topic, and it's about skills. Visuals and Star Power is not a skill, and let's be real, most Idols done surgery to look better, and the star power usually comes with being an Idol under a BIG4 label. Most of them wouldn't have half the star power under a small agency.

Acting is a skill, but it has nothing to do with the Music industry. To be honest, that's why so many Idols are being called ACEs, because they're popular.

These two title are like the It Girl. Nowadays, everyone is an It Girl if they're pretty and popular enough. A real It Girl should have a real influence, not just a pretty face and the usual popularity.

What popularity means today was a totally different thing 10 or 20 years ago without the social media. Today, you just need one viral video and you're an It Girl or Boy.

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Yeah nah. That's just your opinion

all-rounder should be singing, dancing, and aesthetics/visuals. Rapping is a nice bonus, but not necessary IMO.

Ace is someone who can take over the roles of their other members in regards to rapping, singing and being the centre easily because they're just as strong as the ones who have the official title.

Strongest example is Han jisung. Producer, rapper, singer, centre.

I think it's pretty obvious what an ACE and All-Rounder SHOULD be.

But these are KPOP fans. They recreate reality on the daily to suit whatever agenda or angle they have.

Anyway, all-rounder, someone above average at singing, dancing, and performing in general. In my personal opinion, most KPOP stars are average at singing and above average in dancing due to training. I do feel most of them lack in the performance portion individually because they are able to hide it behind having so many members. I also feel like the threshold for what is considered "excelling' in singing for KPOP is relatively low.

An ACE is someone who excels in all 3 areas. If I had to pick ACEs, I'd pick Chungha, Seulgi, Haewon, Jungkook, Hyolyn....basically someone who could be the lead/main vocalist but also can be the lead/main dancer along with having good performance skills.

All rounder is some one who can sing and dance well at the same time. For example someone like Baekhyun while also being decently popular. (Some add rapping to this but I don’t really know why groups that are not rap focused need rap to complete being an all rounder)

An ace is someone who the face of the group but they need not really be the best singer or dancer or even the most talented. Usually this person has a lot of charisma and stage presence. For example I would say wonyoung is the ace of IVE even if she’s not the best dancer or singer in the group.

Quote from David33

Hyolyn is definitely an ACE, the other ones are more like All-Rounders.

Interesting take.

Say what you want about the others, but I'd argue Chungha is definitely an ACE.

Quote from David33

At the same time? I don't think that should be a requirement. It's enough if they're good singers and dancers. It's not easy to dance and sing well at the same time, for me that's an ACE quality.

Many of you said rap shouldn't be mandatory, especially because not every group is rap focused, but dance is basically the "performance" category, so what's the 3rd? Popularity shouldn't be the one because that's not fair with less popular Idols.

So we could add producing if rap is not the main or secondary role of an Idol, or stage presence. That's more fair.

I don't agree about the ACE part at all, what you said is basically the Center, Visual and It Girl/Boy of the group. ACE should be about the skills on the highest levels possible. Obviously, I'm not talking about Mariah Carey level. This is Kpop after all.

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Ok probably I just said it confusingly but I just meant they should be good at both. Dance is not the same thing as performance at all. A good dancer need not have the greatest performance ability or stage presence.

ACE is what I said it was. In you definition Ace and all rounder have an over lap.

Honestly it’s not that important to differentiate these things if you provide context. They are colloquial things not some standard definitions.

To me, when I hear the word all-rounded, then the idol should at least do reasonably well at all three main categories.

If there were like fifty categories, I would understand if they don't match all of those, but when there is only three, then they should have some talent at all three as an all rounder, I think.

This is why I have difficulty placing J-Hope there, even though he is way above average at dance, good at rap, but his singing is just okay-ish.

Quote from David33

I don't know much about J-Hope, only that he's a fantastic dancer, probably one of the best, I'm not sure if I heard his solo music yet. I only heard JK, Suga and RM. Suga and RM are the ones who make music I actually like, but I'm not that into boy groups anymore. I could name one of the ATEEZ members, but I don't remember the name. Tbf they have multiple members who could be an All-rounder contender.😂

J-Hope mostly raps on his solo work, but he has sung before and it's okay to listen to but of course he's no main vocalist.

There's a joke between him and Suga of when they work together as a duo and they call themselves Sope, that J-Hope is the main vocal though

His latest song is quite catchy, in case you want to try:

ATEEZ has lots of talent indeed.

ACE was a member of the group VAV and a boygroup which is written out as A.C.E

Quote from David33

As I said to ISaidISaid we can exclude rap to be more fair, especially with soloists. Performer is a dancer imo, so we can add stage presence. Chungha definitely has a great stage presence. Not sure about Seulgi, even tho I adore both of them, btw.

I'd say both of them are close to being an ACE if we exclude rap. For me, an ACE is who's above average or better singer, and neither of them are. I mean, Seulgi could be an above average singer, but not Chungha. She's average.

If we put Chungha and Seulgi in the ACE category, I can put every MAMAMOO member in too, but I only did that with Wheein.

I didn't say dance is the same as performer, but most people use the term performer for dancers, at least in Kpop. For example, MAMAMOO doesn't have an official dancer, both Moonbyul and Wheein has the role of Performer.

Technically a rapper, a dancer, and a singer is a performer.

I don't think every good dancer has a great stage presence too, even Lia Kim said she's one of the best female dancer, but she doesn't have a great stage presence.

Stage presence is basically charisma, and commanding the stage and the crowd. Mostly the latter. I don't think there's many Idol who can do that on a high level.

I know, it's the same thing officially, that's why I changed it for myself, because I think an ACE should be a higher level artist.

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I think that's where we disagree.

I definitely think Chungha and Seulgi are above average singers. For KPOP. While both excel at dancing. Actually, Seulgi could be the main vocal in most groups that did not have Wendy in them.

And if we are considering that, Hyolyn imo is not an above average dancer (For KPOP). But, she's still an ACE.

Quote from thelightoftruth

Yeah nah. That's just your opinion

this should be the best answer

Quote from CaraFIMIE

this should be the best answer

This should be the best answer to every single david thread.

ACE = LE SSERAFIM

Quote from David33

SOPE? Is that official? WOW! Kinda sounds like a food or drink.😂

I heard this song, but only because Moonbyul did a dance cover and Hope liked it too. Kpop twt is mad about it too. People are so crazy. Being mad about J-Hope liking a Reel and saying she only did it for this when they're basically a sibling group. Imagine if they do a collab. Byul likes to sing more than rap, so...

Kind of official when they did some work together, but it's not an official name listen on Spotify or anything like that.

I think Moonbyul is an outstanding talent and so is everyone in Mamamoo. I really like them in variety shows as well. Always made me laugh.

To be honest, I have no idea what's going on at Twitter. My life is much more peaceful without it

(I make it sound like a joke, but I actually mean it. So much negativity there I don't need).

I really want that Mamamoo/BTS collab, and I know there are plenty of ARMY who feel the same way.