Outside of a loyal fandom, is there anything more important to an idol/group than the support of the general public?

Yes, but I don't see how these things can be told apart.

Fandom to an extent is measurable by the extent of physical sales. But GP support, that is revealed only in case of viral hits or consistent longevity.

But GP displeasure is more identifiable, based on how 'advertisers' react. If no endorsement deals or existing deals are being cut off, then it means the business feels that the act does not have traction with GP or worse.

Quote from Yama-Chan

I would point to AOA, Irene, T-ara and Park Bom as easy examples of what can happen to your career when the public turns on you.

And they would all have lost deals, when the public turns on them.

Yes Big bang is a good example, but even they can't put Seungri back, that is too far for anybody.

Looking at their post, it doesn't seem like IsaidIsaid was saying it doesn't matter at all, more that because it can change so quickly that it doesn't matter. I said this before, people are fickle, today the GP loves NewJeans, tomorrow something could come out that makes them hate NJs. So yes in that sense it is not nearly as important as a loyal fandom and the ability to do ones job as an artist unimpeded. Though you are free to tell me why I'm wrong.

I just don't think support of the GP is some silver bullet and doesn't guarantee anything, but it's certainly good that they have it. Basically having it is good, but doesn't guarantee anything. Not having it would be bad.

Quote from Tru-Multistan

Looking at their post, it doesn't seem like IsaidIsaid was saying it doesn't matter at all, more that because it can change so quickly that it doesn't matter. I said this before, people are fickle, today the GP loves NewJeans, tomorrow something could come out that makes them hate NJs. So yes in that sense it is not nearly as important as a loyal fandom and the ability to do ones job as an artist unimpeded. Though you are free to tell me why I'm wrong.

I just don't think support of the GP is some silver bullet and doesn't guarantee anything, but it's certainly good that they have it. Basically having it is good, but doesn't guarantee anything. Not having it would be bad.

I don’t think Yama is capable of comprehension how is this thread even relevant to what I said lol.

If someone says “is winning the lottery the most important” ofc getting free money is nice and it can save people’s lives but being employed is far more steady.

Having GP support is like winning the lottery, it may or may not happen. If it happens good for you. But if you have no job and just rely on winning the lottery/gambling all the time that’s not going to help you much.

Quote from Yama-Chan

That's exactly my point. Korea, and the K-Pop industry at large, loathes that man so much that not even his most diehard fans (sadly they still exist) could hope to resuscitate his career.

I never said public support was eternal or completely static.

I just said it's vitally important. In the case of NewJeans, it has been massive, because of just how much they are loved by seemingly everyone but company shills misogynistic incel loser men.

Especially for girl groups, which I've only had more than a decade of being a girl group stans as my sample size, once the public turns on you, it's extremely hard to sustain your career.

If the court of public opinion wasn't so important, HYBE wouldn't be trying so desperately hard to win it.

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yea I agree it is very important to have that support, and while I don't think it's likely to change, it can very quickly. In any case, GP support isn't gonna win court cases and it (may or may not) do something to stop HYBE from trying to impede NJs future work. I say it may because I wouldn't think it's wise to try and blacklist/impede a group that is so loved.

So I agree with both of you in a sense....

Quote from ISaidISaid

Having GP support is like winning the lottery, it may or may not happen. If it happens good for you. But if you have no job and just rely on winning the lottery/gambling all the time that’s not going to help you much.

I was not going to bother to join the discussion but I have to say this is a really, really, really bad comparison lmao.

Quote from Yama-Chan

Think of it this way, if all the media play against NewJeans specifically, not even Min Heejin, had accomplished their intended purpose, where would the girls be right now? Would any of these huge brands be publicly supporting them? In Korea, they'll cancel those contracts in a heartbeat once they determine your image is detrimental to their brand.

Look how quickly Han So Hee got replaced when she had that childish meltdown on social media over being treated as a homewrecker by Hyeri's fans, and she is MASSIVELY popular. She managed to survive that somehow with her reputation mostly in tact, but in the immediate aftermath, she was getting criticized harshly.

NewJeans is so loved by the public that they've GAINED followers, fans and support in spite of the incredible amounts of media play against them

International K-Pop fans are insulated from it, because people on this side live in their tiny community bubbles, but there were literally HUNDREDS of negative articles about NewJeans a month. HUNDREDS.

That confirms both how much HYBE clearly obsesses over influencing the public's opinion and how down bad for NewJeans the public is regardless.

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Has ever Hybe had a good reputation in Korea?

It might be one of the reasons why Njs got so much support if Hybe had bad reputation all along

Like look at SM, they have done so many sh*t things yet everybody in Korea loves or Respects SM. When Seunghan was removed nobody batted an eye in Korea, when Exo-CBX started fighting against SM public supported SM not Exo, and the list goes on and on……

SM’s reputation seems like bulletproof in Korea

Quote from Yama-Chan

Think of it this way, if all the media play against NewJeans specifically, not even Min Heejin, had accomplished their intended purpose, where would the girls be right now? Would any of these huge brands be publicly supporting them? In Korea, they'll cancel those contracts in a heartbeat once they determine your image is detrimental to their brand.

Look how quickly Han So Hee got replaced when she had that childish meltdown on social media over being treated as a homewrecker by Hyeri's fans, and she is MASSIVELY popular. She managed to survive that somehow with her reputation mostly in tact, but in the immediate aftermath, she was getting criticized harshly.

NewJeans is so loved by the public that they've GAINED followers, fans and support in spite of the incredible amounts of media play against them

International K-Pop fans are insulated from it, because people on this side live in their tiny community bubbles, but there were literally HUNDREDS of negative articles about NewJeans a month. HUNDREDS.

That confirms both how much HYBE clearly obsesses over influencing the public's opinion and how down bad for NewJeans the public is regardless.

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Again I do agree with you on the importance of having that support. As in, if they didn't have it, it might be pretty safe to say NJs is cooked. But they do, so the whole "they are screwed" narrative doesn't hold up that well.

Though I think the examples you are using are a case of "apples to oranges". Because there are 2 big differences NJs has to deal with:

1. Winning court cases

2. Potentially being blacklisted by HYBE

Correct if I'm wrong but it's pretty vital that NJs win the court cases, and that they aren't impeded by HYBE. GP support doesn't influence these things afaik. All I'm saying is that it's not a silver bullet and that it's gonna take more than GP support to keep NJs alive.

Quote from Yama-Chan

Think of it this way, if all the media play against NewJeans specifically, not even Min Heejin, had accomplished their intended purpose, where would the girls be right now? Would any of these huge brands be publicly supporting them? In Korea, they'll cancel those contracts in a heartbeat once they determine your image is detrimental to their brand.

Look how quickly Han So Hee got replaced when she had that childish meltdown on social media over being treated as a homewrecker by Hyeri's fans, and she is MASSIVELY popular. She managed to survive that somehow with her reputation mostly in tact, but in the immediate aftermath, she was getting criticized harshly.

NewJeans is so loved by the public that they've GAINED followers, fans and support in spite of the incredible amounts of media play against them

International K-Pop fans are insulated from it, because people on this side live in their tiny community bubbles, but there were literally HUNDREDS of negative articles about NewJeans a month. HUNDREDS.

That confirms both how much HYBE clearly obsesses over influencing the public's opinion and how down bad for NewJeans the public is regardless.

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We are talking tangentially

Has GP support helped new jeans / in general?

Yes it has. Having GP while suing your company is better than having no GO support and still suing your company.

Is it enough to overcome the industry bias and blacklisting?

It’s debatable.

If we're talking about the public opinion, of course it matters, because Idols have to follow the rules.

BUT, I don't think they're important in terms of their LONG-TERM career. I mean, most people will move on from ANY Idol after 5-7 years, so there's no point building a career on them. I don't think this only applies to Kpop artists, btw. After a couple of years, artists can only rely on their fandom.

There are "freaks" like BoA, SNSD, IU, Taeyeon, GDragon and some others but that's all. Pretty much every Idol will lose their popularity after 7 years! That's why agencies only give them a 7 year long contract.

Quote from Yama-Chan

The blacklisting conversation is over. We can already see that's never going to happen.

No we have not seen this.

Quote from Yama-Chan

At this point, people have lost the plot so much on the court cases. The WORST that will happen to NewJeans is having to pay to terminate. That's it.

The blacklisting conversation is over. We can already see that's never going to happen. The biggest brands are supporting them no matter what.

The court of public opinion was by far the most important thing for NewJeans to win, and they've dominated that to such a degree that the results of the termination suit will result in support from the public regardless of the outcome.

I do respect your optimism but as always, we'll see. I'll just leave it at that before I am branded a HYBE bootlicker.

gp reception is fickle tho, the only two acts who have it in a unwavering manner and bb(and gd, no other member of bb) and iu

sistar was a digital monster, they cmb this year as a duo, nobody cared

and they can't make up for that with touring bc they dont have a fandom for it, so a cmb happeing again its not likely

the only way a kpop group keep existing its thru touring, if u dont have it u are not profitable and u simply stop getting cmbs and music

Good management

Unless the S.Korean govt, Kakao and Naver get involved, "Blacklisting" is simply impossible. And even if they get involved, it will not at all be comprehensive.

Social media and globalization has changed the game.

Even ordinary people are no more dependent on print/broadcast media, and definitely not celebrities.

The only risk Jeanz have is to lost the legal case and pay penalties, but chances of an arbitrated settlement are far higher.

However currently things are at "stare down" mode, both parties posturing - and in this phase public support and that advertisers signing up - is crucial, to decide who will blink first.

At this point, that favours Jeanz. But things might change quickly too, we will see.

If they manage to release new music and show a strong performance - that will be critical, even if they lose revenues due to KOMCA block etc., Probably better to produce/distribute from outside Korea.

I'm pretty sure ISaidISaid 's exact words were "Public opinion is so irrelevant it's almost funny."

Public opinion does not equal public support.

I'm also pretty sure they were speaking in context.

Quote from David33

There are "freaks" like BoA, SNSD, IU, Taeyeon, GDragon and some others but that's all. Pretty much every Idol will lose their popularity after 7 years! That's why agencies only give them a 7 year long contract.

That's really misleading in the chicken and the egg problem about popularity and longevity.

First of all, group contracts are only 7 years now due to laws to stop longer contracts thanks to the SM 10 year contracts (that EXO had for example). You can't use that as some sort of organic dovetail when it literally had to be legislated.

Secondly, full renewals are rare. Are most groups dropping off because they just naturally attenuate at 7 years, or because of contract renewal/disbandment rumours etc in the news, or just outright non reneweal leading to perceptions they're disbanded or in limbo, or moving to a smaller agency and can promote less?

Like BTS didn't stop their popularity after year 7, infact their biggest hits came in 2020-2021 when they were 7-8 years in - because they had a very clean proactive renewal in 2018(?) or so, which skipped all the end of contract drama/news articles that portend doom and gloom to a kpop group. Smart thinking.

Also ironic the people in this thread who don't think that public support/public recognition are needed or as useful are stans of big 3 labels where the public recognition of those labels fuels their groups success.

Amazing lack of introspection.

Unless theres a controversy, no, I don't think GP support necessarily matters, though it depends on what level of success the group hopes to achieve.

I agree that no group wants or could possibly survive public hatred and scorn (at least in South Korea).

But in the absence of controversy, if a group is just doing it's thing, GP support is just a bonus. If a group has a core fandom that is enough to support them to a level of success that makes said group happy and comfortable, that is fine.

Quote from Yama-Chan

You've lost the plot if you believe otherwise.

Omega signed a deal exclusively with Danielle, as confirmed by ODOR themselves today, and the CEO himself publicly welcomed Danielle as one of only three global ambassadors

Vogue Korea dropped a 50+ page photoshoot, directed by MHJ herself, with the girls' names listed but NOT NewJeans, a first. They've also followed the jeanzforfree account.

They are never getting blacklisted. If Circle wants to sabotage its own charts and destroy their credibility, they're more than welcome to.

It won't stop NewJeans. They don't care.

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If in such a short duration you already decided you have ample proof that no one will boycott new jeans ever that’s merely your own delusion. But I guess that’s what being a fan means. lol.

Vogue is not the Korean entertainment industry.

Brands are not the Korean entertainment industry.

And these are the result of new jeans achievements so far

If they face issues in promoting, releasing music their hype can die down and that’s what will then cause other things like brand endorsements to also dwindle. It’s a cause and effect.

You need to first promote/entertain to keep your popularity so that you can get brand deals.

If there are things stopping them from promoting to their full extent their popularity will dwindle as well eventually. Thats the purpose of the boycott to slowly kill you and make you irrelevant. It’s the little things that will kill you and in kpop it’s all about being trendy.

New jeans having brand deals now doesn’t mean what you think it does. It just means they’ve been popular so far which everyone knows.

It’s from starting now.

The fact that their new album didn’t see the light of the day in 2025. The fact that we don’t know when they’ll get to be a regular group again it’s these things that are uncertain.

They haven’t even toured while their contemporaries are selling out concert venues all over the world do you think money grows on trees? And indefinitely or something? You think they delaying touring for months or maybe even years will not impact them? Touring is what bring investors in. Not the hit on melon. And here we don’t even know when they can tour or release an album.

Only after they release music, tour,promote and have hits without any hindrances can you say that new jeans have nothing to fear with hybe/boycotts/etc

Right now you absolutely know nothing. Right now we have no idea when new jeans will ever promote again and that’s the truth.

So instead of being gullible and naive, realize that it’s an uncertain and cut throat world. And wait to see where the pieces fall.

If you already fully believe new jeans will release music and promote and have without with ZERO issues that’s merely YOUR assumption and not a fact. We have to wait to see what happens.

Quote from Yama-Chan

That's a whole lot of yapping, but I forced myself to read through this diatribe with the hope there would be something novel or insightful to extract from it. Maybe you had brought something new to the table, I wondered, but it was more of the same doom posting and rants that essentially expose how much you're clearly hoping for NewJeans to fail just to sate your ego and give you the "I told you so!" moment that is never going to happen.

Do you know you have this bad habit of ignoring any and all objective information and empirical data in arguments, just so you can reiterate your completely unsubstantiated opinions as if they're well researched and infallible truth?

I have given numerous examples of the numerous powerful indicators of NewJeans being more popular NOW than they were BEFORE their plans got put on pause due to HYBE's shenanigans. For Christ's sake, Korea even gave them a new title in the interim and now call them "Korea's National Idols".

You are yapping about a scenario that has already been proven as a delusional fantasy at best. All the positive indicators--brands standing in solidarity with them, the public siding with NewJeans and MHJ, their music rising up the charts at the peak of the scandal, their Instagram getting 3 million followers in 3 days--in aggregate are compelling evidence that NewJeans will be fine.

So compelling that even HYBE stans on Reddit are starting to read the writing on the wall and consoling each other due to the feeling of NewJeans' sustained popularity and growth being an inevitability.

My assumption, or in my words, rational and well-reasoned conclusion, IS based on facts. You, my friend, are the one whose stance is noticeably absent any factual evidence or data to support it. I don't really care about your personal take. I care about the data and what it says.

The same data advertisers and brands use to determine they'll bet everything on NewJeans even if it means giving HYBE the finger.

It is about to be 2025. Blacklisting in today's digital ecosystem is effectively IMPOSSIBLE. With Instagram alone, NewJeans has ADOR putting out pathetic statements pleading for the girls to use Phoning.

If all this was the nothing burger you're trying to argue it is, the biggest opponents of NewJeans and MHJ wouldn't be losing their shit. But every time I go to reddit, I see people coping about the brands and coping about their support in Korea, delusionally and arrogantly concluding the people just aren't as informed on the dispute as they are.

Lastly, and I saved this as an aside, the statement that touring is what brings investors in...is silly. NewJeans in 2 years brought in more brands and investors than any other group in K-Pop exponentially over that same time frame, and it has nothing to do with touring. THAT is all about your appeal and marketability to the public, because THAT leads to profits.

Why the HELL would companies care about TOURING, where most of the profits go to the artists and their tour organizers? That doesn't even make sense.

Stray Kids and Seventeen tour better than almost every group in K-Pop right now. You think they have the most investors or brand deals? What about Twice? See? Your logic doesn't hold up.

I hope we all learned something from this essay today.

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You think skz 17 and twice don’t have brand deals what lol

Quote from Disevidence

Also ironic the people in this thread who don't think that public support/public recognition are needed or as useful are stans of big 3 labels where the public recognition of those labels fuels their groups success.

Amazing lack of introspection.

But do big 4 groups have public support or large fandoms? I don't think majority of new groups are well loved by gp of korea based off of chart performance especially boy groups but by company stans. So I guess the point is at what point are large fanfoms actually count as gp.

public support is very important

it determines whether one's songs chart and the amount of flexibility and backlash to flops and scandals

if the public like you they are more willing to give one the benefit of the doubt for those things...

however public support is fickle unless one is well entrenched (especially in SK Entertainment Industry)

But the question is, besides a loyal and spending fandom and then GP support, what else is there?

Wealth, fame, endorsement deals - everything arises from these 2 factors. So what else is there to compare against?

It is more interesting to discuss which is more important of the two.

And I world vote for a large and loyal fandom.

As TWICE is proving and many a boy group.

Cases like IU and GD are anomalies, outliers, who shouldn't be taken for such things.

However if the context is the on going disputes between HYBE and Jeanz, then at this point Public Support is super critical for Jeanz

Quote from bbgc

But the question is, besides a loyal and spending fandom and then GP support, what else is there?

Wealth, fame, endorsement deals - everything arises from these 2 factors. So what else is there to compare against?

It is more interesting to discuss which is more important of the two.

And I world vote for a large and loyal fandom.

As TWICE is proving and many a boy group.

Cases like IU and GD are anomalies, outliers, who shouldn't be taken for such things.

However if the context is the on going disputes between HYBE and Jeanz, then at this point Public Support is super critical for Jeanz

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I think that is slowly becoming the trend for larger well established GG (ie. those that can sell in excess of like 500K/1m) that even if they used to have GP support and now lost it or even if they never had GP support in the first place that they can continue to rely on the fandom

Quote from Yama-Chan

I think there is nuance to that question. By the way, I was wondering if someone would bring this up and I'm not surprised it's you, respectfully of course.

The nuance is embedded in the type of sentiment the artist receives from the public.

If it's positive, then it can work miracles through even the worst scandals. See Big Bang.

If it's neutral, then a powerful fandom can carry you, like we see with pretty much all JYP acts.

But if it's negative, as in you are HATED by the public and they turn on you, at least in Korea, it can ruin you. I'm not sure any fandom would protect against that. For example, Korean broadcasts censored, mosaiced and edited out Suga from all images and videos at the peak of his DUI scandal.

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I agree.

When it is negative, then pretty much the fandom has vanished into the general public.

Has there ever been a case where there has been a conflict between a considerable cohesive fandom and the public?

Ofc this is all in the context of Korea.

In case of Suga, it was not that critical an issue, still most of the support came from i-ARMY.

the support from their own company also kinda important, just saying

Quote from prodigy210

But do big 4 groups have public support or large fandoms? I don't think majority of new groups are well loved by gp of korea based off of chart performance especially boy groups but by company stans. So I guess the point is at what point are large fanfoms actually count as gp.

The issue isn't just public support, it's public recognition.

Their songs may not be charting, but the labels are so universally known that everytime they debut a group it's something that can sit up and make people take notice. So that in turn generates both GP support and fandom because of the high visibility of those labels.

You think Riize is charting high on debut if they debuted from some 5 staff nugu agency? Not on your life.

You've got Big 4 group fans in here saying they don't need the public, but it's precisely the high value of public recognition and perceptiveness to those labels that drives the fandom in the first place.

The concepts of fandom and GP aren't distinct separate entities. They're intertwined and it's beyond nonsense to suggest they don't heavily impact each side.