How did K-pop avoid some of the extremes of J-pop?

  • Currently in Japan and was in the famous Tower Records the other day.


    Was looking in the J-pop section and saw a whole area dedicated to various girl groups and -48 groups... including a whole section dedicated to photo books of various J-pop idols... many of which are bikini/lingerie books. Even in the boy group section there are photobooks on sale.


    In most conbinis and book shops can also get weekly/monthly manga magazines with bikini pictorials, many of which are idols


    These photobooks and magazines sometimes feature idols who are under 18.


    There was news in Japan last week about how an idol caught dating had to promise to post a "goodnight picture" every night for a year to prove she's going to bed alone.


    Then there's Johnny's.


    Super over sexualisation of idols including underage.


    Over the top strict dating rules and reactions to dating that make K-pop fans look tame.


    Parasocialness from male and female fans that goes way beyond what happens in K-pop (you haven't lived until you've seen a middle aged man dress head to toe in photo shirts of a young idol, his jacket and bag covered in hundreds of the same photo badge of her).



    There's always talk that K-pop borrowed heavily from the J-pop model (with a much stronger mix in of western pop).


    So how did K-pop, while still having many of its own problematic issues, manage to avoid a lot of the worst of J-pop?


    Like... Why are K-pop photobooks tame and not bikini/lingerie nonsense as one example?

  • Go to Best Answer
  • is parasocialness that much different in kpop and jpop? or is it just how open they are about it?

    sometimes i look at my group's fans on twitter and the way they talk and they're mega obsessed and the way they talk. though one was from jpop so there might be some correlation there


    idk how to answer the other stuff other than saying "it's japan"

    i don't know much about it either, but there's probably a fuck ton of discussion about japan's weird side

  • The thing on the article as far I know is actually just that it was rumored she would be dating. Not that she has. The media wasn't beliving her when she said she was just friends to people of the oposite gender. Her management than got all mad and told her it would've been fine if it was her dad or her brother she was meeting, but not a guy that is not realated to her family. It was so weird, cause she tried to tell everyone that she was not dating and nobody in her agency belived her.


    They however never really questioned the guy who was involved other than saying he was apparently meeting too many women back then, no mather if they are friends or not and so the media only was like: "Well whatever, but we have something else to discuss about the guy" since he was meeting a woman that was married and people belived he made her cheat on her husband. Later it was proven that he never had any sexual realations to the women he met around that time, nor did he tried to date any of them.


    But since the problem with the AKB48 girl happend already and spread across the globe for going viral, people only ever remembered her side of the story and sometimes even belived it when the media said she would've been in fact dating someone without having permitions to do so.


    The agency of the guy she was meeting btw is the total oposite of how for example AKB48's agency works like so even if they might dated and we don't even know, since both tried to make us belive that there was nothing between them, he could've just gone totaly into it saying there might've been something, not knowing if she was allowed to say anything, cause I know what guy was mentioned in the article, altho they don't say his name here and the agency he is from is totally fine with dating, see 6 idols of his company are married, one openly has a ex. girlfriend that he dated for a long time and even has a child with her and of the 6 married people 3 have children and fans are even happy when hearing news like one got married or is having a child etc.


    Mostly the very traditional working companies in Japan are those who put the stupid rules on all of their idols that make foreigners think: "Oh what the hell?"

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  • Its hard to top the country that brought us anime/manga such as "My Little Sister Cant Be This Cute".


    Never got into jpop much outside of yoasobi, babymetal, and whatever groups sing anime openings. But ive seen the idol culture portrayed in enough anime, most recently with Oshi No Ko.


    Though I will say Japan really has perfected the parasocial relationship whether it be 3D (idols) or 2D (anime waifus, vtubers).

  • Maybe because jpop is older that kpop. Idol jpop have developed for a longer time, since the 70ies/80ies and the view of sexulisation of young girls probably was a bit different compared to today, even if I don't know for sure. Japan was also more isolated from the world when the Idol industry there developed compared South Korea which had internet and digital media as tools when kpop became a thing. Jpop is more focus on it's domestic market, but kpop also need to think on the image of their groups in other contries beside the domestic market.


    Being more isolated and focused on their domestic market in the early age of the idol industry probably made them develope this "soft porn" stuff that are common in the Idol industry, or at least was a couple of years ago. But if you look today on what some kpop girls put up on their social media it's not far away.........

  • you should see my rampage member photobooks. I'm not complaining one bit. Nope.

    :Cat-Cackle:


    Also Johnny was a piece of shit he did many things to a lot of the guys in his groups that's why many left and when he died everyone was basically free from him. They changed the company name but the damage has been done. Number_i members got the hell out of there. I personally don't like the music any of those groups make so I don't follow them


    Not to mention they wanted to make some behind the scenes documentary featuring some of the Johnny's groups. I would never support that after the way the groups were treated.

  • Japan's sexualisation of minors still shocks me to this day, I remember looking up AKB48 and in the first mv I clicked on they were having a pillow fight? (not sure about this part) and they wore sexy lingerie like the kind that you would wear during sexy time with your partner, they looked so freaking young (plus the whole concept was so child like) that I decided I shouldn't search up their age to keep my sanity and just pretend I didn't just saw all that and move on.....

  • Kpop is almost a carbon copy of Jpop. It avoided this from witnessing the downsides of Jpop plus our culture is much more conservative and restrictive on that sort of stuff, which lead to it not happening

  • Yeah after Johnny died the floodgates o opened revealing the rampant abuse, sexual assault etc. this was revealed decades ago and talked about for years before his death BUT Johnny still had that fear of God factor that made most people stay quiet plus the company had immense media power they could literally make you disappear. After he died? All of that went away and people started whistle blowing and victim coming forward etc. but before all that it was a open unverifiable secret that he and that company and family was rotten to the core so many people were complicit about what was happening and did nothing until he died.all those idols many are the same age as most people's bias. And that man abused hundreds of not thousands. Just imagine if everyone in kpop every group was a victim. That's basically Jpop

  • Yeah after Johnny died the floodgates o opened revealing the rampant abuse, sexual assault etc. this was revealed decades ago and talked about for years before his death BUT Johnny still had that fear of God factor that made most people stay quiet plus the company had immense media power they could literally make you disappear. After he died? All of that went away and people started whistle blowing and victim coming forward etc. but before all that it was a open unverifiable secret that he and that company and family was rotten to the core so many people were complicit about what was happening and did nothing until he died.all those idols many are the same age as most people's bias. And that man abused hundreds of not thousands. Just imagine if everyone in kpop every group was a victim. That's basically Jpop

    k i know all this thanks.

  • Maybe because jpop is older that kpop. Idol jpop have developed for a longer time, since the 70ies/80ies and the view of sexulisation of young girls probably was a bit different compared to today, even if I don't know for sure. Japan was also more isolated from the world when the Idol industry there developed compared South Korea which had internet and digital media as tools when kpop became a thing. Jpop is more focus on it's domestic market, but kpop also need to think on the image of their groups in other contries beside the domestic market.


    Being more isolated and focused on their domestic market in the early age of the idol industry probably made them develope this "soft porn" stuff that are common in the Idol industry, or at least was a couple of years ago. But if you look today on what some kpop girls put up on their social media it's not far away.........

    There's a big difference between an idol voluntarily posting revealing photos on social media and forcing underage girls to pose for soft porn mags. Especially when it's typically veteran (or even retired) Kpop idols who do that sort of thing.


    Kpop has been getting more provocative in recent years, at least compared to where 3rd gen was with its lack of sexy concepts, but for the most part it feels more like a natural result of Kpop genuinely liberalizing rather than being an overt display of outmoded, shady business practices like the kind you see in Jpop. In this sense it's continuing to take after American pop more than its Japanese counterpart.

  • many of which are bikini/lingerie books. Even in the boy group section there are photobooks on sale.

    This is one of the parts of the J-Pop scene that has always bothered me, people keep reminding me the legal age in Japan is 13. Which I have always thought was gross, and most people in Japan also think that the age being that young is extremely predatory and concerning. But Japanese parliament, which sadly still is mostly an men's zone, sees no issue with it and actually gets mad when people petition to change it. It is not just idols and musicians, they do this with young actresses too. <X


    I always point out the good in the J-Pop scene compared to some parts of K-Pop's scene, however yes we do also have to acknowledge the sh-tty parts of Japan's entertainment industry too. I would be a huge hypocrite if I did not also acknowledge the sh-t.

    Micah Forever

    Benny's Smoll Bean



  • From how I see it, K-pop offers a larger-than-life, unattainable image for idols. J-pop presents a girl-next-door or boy-next-door fantasy.


    We can see this in the concepts. K-pop concepts are always changing and varied, often including elements of the supernatural. Idols aren't just acting like your average, relatable, attractive crush 24/7.


    This is in contrast to, say, AKB48 J-idols who are limited to portraying schoolgirls all the time and acting "close" to the fans all the time.


    While the two are similar, they're different in that regard.

  • Yeah after Johnny died the floodgates o opened revealing the rampant abuse, sexual assault etc. this was revealed decades ago and talked about for years before his death BUT Johnny still had that fear of God factor that made most people stay quiet plus the company had immense media power they could literally make you disappear. After he died? All of that went away and people started whistle blowing and victim coming forward etc. but before all that it was a open unverifiable secret that he and that company and family was rotten to the core so many people were complicit about what was happening and did nothing until he died.all those idols many are the same age as most people's bias. And that man abused hundreds of not thousands. Just imagine if everyone in kpop every group was a victim. That's basically Jpop

    I honestly am glad the original members of Arashi took over the management of most of the groups that were still under Johnny's as soon as he was gone, even though they have basically retired as performers, as that sick bastards family seemed angrier at those coming out about his abuse, rather than their dad, brother and husband being an piece of trash who deserved to rot in prison. I cannot imagine how much more neglect and abuse they would have gone through if they stayed being managed by his family.


    That family rightfully deserved losing their multiple billions to the victims, many of those are women and men, who never even got to the point of debuting. The fact that there was such a listed documentation from that jackass, of exactly who he chose to abuse. Ironically, helped be his family's downfall and karma for what he had done. The fact that it was an open secret with his family and the stockholders for so long, and they still took over 60 years to burst into flames unlike Open World Entertainment in Korea (who's CEO and Chairmen were caught doing the same things), which only took 10 years to explode in flames, is disappointing and sickening.

    Micah Forever

    Benny's Smoll Bean



  • I honestly am glad the original members of Arashi took over the management of most of the groups that were still under Johnny's as soon as he was gone, even though they have basically retired as performers, as that sick bastards family seemed angrier at those coming out about his abuse, rather than their dad, brother and husband being an piece of trash who deserved to rot in prison. I cannot imagine how much more neglect and abuse they would have gone through if they stayed being managed by his family.


    That family rightfully deserved losing their multiple billions to the victims, many of those are women and men, who never even got to the point of debuting. The fact that there was such a listed documentation from that jackass, of exactly who he chose to abuse. Ironically, helped be his family's downfall and karma for what he had done. The fact that it was an open secret with his family and the stockholders for so long, and they still took over 60 years to burst into flames unlike Open World Entertainment in Korea (who's CEO and Chairmen were caught doing the same things), which only took 10 years to explode in flames.

    What pissed me off is the fact they were struggling with changing the name. That should have been a no-brainer. Why would you even hesitate to change the company name, start over, and treat people the way they deserved? Like why was that such a damn problem for them. I was so stunned. If i was in charge, the moment that bastard and his family were out of the picture I would have changed anything and everything related to them without hesitation. I will never understand people.

  • By having the opposite spectrum of 'extreme', I guess.

    Remember those saesangs? Yeah, they'll probably reverse saesang and stalk and destroy you and your company for pulling the shit japanese companies do to their idols lol.

    x o x o

    c6tcSa5.gif

  • What pissed me off is the fact they were struggling with changing the name. That should have been a no-brainer. Why would you even hesitate to change the company name, start over, and treat people the way they deserved? Like why was that such a damn problem for them. I was so stunned. If i was in charge, the moment that bastard and his family were out of the picture I would have changed anything and everything related to them without hesitation. I will never understand people.

    They actually were trying to do worse than just not change the name, the family was trying to fight the artists taking over and deciding to split off into their own company, while the family split off (actually their financial managers, via legal takeover of their assets) into Smile Up which is now just basically an fancy name for the family's money sitting in a bank account to be used for the non famous victims' therapy and housing and for funding the careers and therapy of the artists still active who were abused.


    The family also tried to hire on reporters to purposely go to the press conferences and say things or ask questions that would trigger the victims PTSD. Like it was reaaaaaally worse than just the name change fight. Although the family had their money seized in 2021, and they got nothing out of his will because of the seizure from the abuse being outed. They still were an part of the company until mid last year. X/ Cause the company had to take the family members to court and sue them to remove them from their positions.

    Micah Forever

    Benny's Smoll Bean



  • They actually were trying to do worse than just not change the name, the family was trying to fight the artists taking over and deciding to split off into their own company, while the family split off (actually their financial managers, via legal takeover of their assets) into Smile Up which is now just basically an fancy name for the family's money sitting in a bank account to be used for the non famous victims' therapy and housing and for funding the careers and therapy of the artists still active who were abused.


    The family also tried to hire on reporters to purposely go to the press conferences and say things or ask questions that would trigger the victims PTSD. Like it was reaaaaaally worse than just the name change fight.

    disgusting....

    their asses should be in jail like wtf.


    *protects Number_i members*

    come at me ho's lol


    yeah....no kpop company has been this ba.....other then omega x's


    yeah that's probably the most compareable company...they are STILL trying to frame omega x members....

  • ... OPEN WORLD MEDIA MA'AM. Omega X's was the worst this decade but seriously OPEN WORLD WAS BAD. <X

    Micah Forever

    Benny's Smoll Bean



  • Although the family had their money seized in 2021, and they got nothing out of his will because of the seizure from the abuse being outed. They still were an part of the company until mid last year. X/ Cause the company had to take the family members to court and sue them to remove them from their positions.

    I forgot about this part and added it as you responded but lol xx-jenn-xx further context

    Micah Forever

    Benny's Smoll Bean



  • ... OPEN WORLD MEDIA MA'AM. Omega X's was the worst this decade but seriously OPEN WORLD WAS BAD. <X

    i don't know that one :woow:

    I forgot about this part and added it as you responded but lol xx-jenn-xx further context

    poor artists man....the fact people were too scared to speak up is so sad to me. and then they want to make a documentary about jpop groups and most were johnny's ones like there's so many groups in jpop they could have done a behind the scenes documentary but you wanna do it on the groups who are traumatized...yeah no.... :angy3:

  • i don't know that one :woow:

    poor artists man....the fact people were too scared to speak up is so sad to me. and then they want to make a documentary about jpop groups and most were johnny's ones like there's so many groups in jpop they could have done a behind the scenes documentary but you wanna do it on the groups who are traumatized...yeah no.... :angy3:

    Yeaaaa..... They wanted to do AKB48 as well but King Records shoved NDAs in the former members faces so fast when they found out. 😭 which makes me worry and wonder that the hell they are hiding!

    Micah Forever

    Benny's Smoll Bean



  • quoting u coz i see ur a JAM and kinda curious. excuse my broken english

    ive always follow lapone group but never going deep, but coz of me:i ive been going deep to the point my X(twt) now are updates from japanese fans.

    in k-pop seeling "family" are almost considered good ?? like singer from the same label interact with each other.
    but idk its considered kinda bad in j-pop ??
    i remember during kcon japan rakuten award me:i post a photo with DXTEEN and the qrt are full of JAM & MINI saying things like "let's not sell family" "this is how you lose fans"
    Edit : it's not kcon but the point still stnad

    and a couple weeks ago me:i and ini are in the same music program and me:i interviewed behind the stage but you can see ini being interviewed behind them and kinda making alot of noises.
    me:i member ran glances at them coz of the noises and the clip got kinda viral and the qrt be like "she's just a rookie but already do that" "she has intention going to the audition to get close to them"

    ive been k-pop fans for a long time and ive seen a handfull off eye contact with an arrow edit. but this is more next level honestly. they're on the same label do they really think they're not bumping into each other at the office ??
    or do they know but dont want to acknowledge it kind of stuff ?? like refusing reality and let fantasy as fantasy ??
    coz i just saw this vid

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    at @8:24 the poll that asking if dating ban is necessary the winning poll was "just dont get caught"

  • Yeaaaa..... They wanted to do AKB48 as well but King Records shoved NDAs in the former members faces so fast when they found out. which makes me worry and wonder that the hell they are hiding!

    honestly wouldn't surprise me if they are hiding anything. the only company since i've been huge into jpop that I don't see shady shit with is: LDH Japan. Seeing as exile was started by members, and everything under the sun is by the members and ran by the members, I have never heard of anything going bad. even with the most recent jr exile vs. neo exile. you see age appropriate songs for the minor groups with the jr groups. The only one a little racy is the one with wolf howl but wolf howl are all adults. I never see innapropriate photobooks for the minors. But i'm not complaining about the rampage ones nope lol.


    and Sky-Hi with his groups. Mazzel and Be:first are all well treated, so are the soloists.


    Even a former employee of Johnny's iirc owns Number_i and they seem to be very hands on with everything and treated well.


    Of course there's a multitude of companys in japan etc. but this is mostly who I follow and I can confidently say based on the hours, days, etc of footage i've watched that I don't see any real problems with them. Of course minors in any industry is always questionable and I know that Japan is HEAVILY into the lolita bullshit which annoys me. But since i don't stan any gg's i don't really pay attention to that.


    I also know Visual Kei is big there too and i admit sometimes it took me a while to figure out some of them were actually dudes. amazing they have better hair then me.


    But with akb48 and other groups formed from survival shows i really question alot. JO1 and all the groups with Lapone, are produce groups...and I never have ever trusted anything produce.

  • I'm not as hardcore into Lapone Groups as she is, but I see that the boy groups interact just fine with each other such as this picture.

    2f0b96eca746a072bdee34ad5398b279-1.jpg

    what i've noticed with the groups I DO follow is that they are allowed to date, marry, whatever. Especially in Exile Tribe. Maybe because everything mostly under Lapone are partially owned by MNET and Produce groups have this dating rule (I'M ASSUMING) due to the Korea standards, that they frown upon male and female interactions (produce groups are done by mnet and cjenm entertainment). Again it's my assumption. Fans don't help matters when they make a mess out of nothing.


    However, i see they have 2 girl groups in Lapone that recently just debuted. Me:I officially in April 2024 and Is:sue in June 2024. maybe for new groups they don't have the experience or aren't allowed to or maybe even afraid. i don't know I don't follow gg's.


    But I don't normally see any problems with male vs female interactions.

  • this is the tweet im talking about. you can see the qrt.

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    its kinda funny after this when they go to the same music show they take photos and doing challanges with other artist except with each other .

  • this is the tweet im talking about. you can see the qrt.

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    its kinda funny after this when they go to the same music show they take photos and doing challanges with other artist except with each other .

    happens a lot in kpop too. i don't know why that is.

    and yeah that's fans being assholes. interactions shouldn't be that big of a problem but again, fans make it a problem. Absolutely nothing wrong with that photo but heaven forbid opposite genders talk to each other. (rolls eyes).


    There will never really be a good explanation for why this is. You will notice it a lot in Kpop, not just Jpop

  • Its hard to top the country that brought us anime/manga such as "My Little Sister Cant Be This Cute".


    Never got into jpop much outside of yoasobi, babymetal, and whatever groups sing anime openings. But ive seen the idol culture portrayed in enough anime, most recently with Oshi No Ko.


    Though I will say Japan really has perfected the parasocial relationship whether it be 3D (idols) or 2D (anime waifus, vtubers).

    Ppl are literally getting married to Hatsune Miku :skull:

    ⋆.ೃ࿔˚⋆.ೃ࿔*:・⋆ ˚。⋆୨♡୧⋆ ˚。⋆⋆.ೃ࿔*:・⋆ ˚。⋆. we rise up above ⋆.ೃ࿔*:・⋆ ˚。⋆୨♡୧⋆ ˚。⋆⋆.ೃ࿔*:・⋆ ˚。⋆ ・⋆

    ・⋆ ˚。⋆୨♡୧⋆ ˚。⋆

  • Rozysebelas going from what you wrote

    Quote

    in k-pop seeling "family" are almost considered good ?? like singer from the same label interact with each other.
    but idk its considered kinda bad in j-pop ??

    No, you will get a lot of artists from the same company interacting. On TikTok for example you can see a lot videos of artists from the same label interacting. But other than this, there are also tons of clips of artists dancing to songs of other artists from their label. Example f5ve's song Underground, if you look around TikTok you will find a few clips of boygroups from their label dancing to the song. There are also artists dancing to sngs of their senior groups. The CO-ED group GENIC for example has a dance video dedicated to their senior group AAA on Youtube.


    Often times members of different groups in the same label are even friends like Masaya of INI and Ren of JO1 know eachother for a lot years now. Also interactions like when member say things about members of other groups. Kodai of LIL LEAGUE for example said he told Taiki of FANTASTICS that he thought Taiki's fashion style was cool and that he would love to dress like him. Some days later Taiki gifted a row of his old clothes to Kodai and Kodai said it made him very happy and he thinks his style improved a lot by having clothes from Taiki.


    Most of the times people are also actually happy when getting interaction with artists from the same label. One thing for example that is a good selling point is BOT (BATTLE OF TOKYO), a project of LDH Records in which groups from EXILE TRIBE's units Jr.EXILE and Neo Exile participate in. They make collab songs and the whole thing even got deep to a point that fan say it was full of lore and stuff, even including a anime styled show that was made a few years ago where some members apeare as drawn characters.


    Companies like EBiDAN, Starto and a few others also have TV-programms where their artists apear in together to do random stuff like playing games, answering questions and other stuff. But those are mostly companies where their artists are the same gender. If you find acts on TV with people of the oposite gender, than it's often not a show by a music company and mostly had only 1 or a few members of the groups apearing with people who are other types of celebrity (like actors and actresses, athletes, comedians, ....)


    I think the closest bond between artists of different groups would be within EBiDAN, BMSG and LDH Records. EBiDAN has a lot acts who are friends with members of other EBiDAN-groups or have sibblings in other groups (like Takuya of BULLET TRAIN and Naoya of ONE N' ONLY are brothers or Fumiya of BUDDiiS and Hayato of ONE N' ONLY are brothera). In LDH Records many acts are also very close friends (For example Sekai of EXILE / FANTASTICS is a very close friend of Tetsuya from EXILE / EXILE THE SECOND since he was in 5th grade and Tetsuya already in college at that time.) and some are also siblings (like Matora of LIL LEAGUE and Kohaku of KID PHENOMENON or Elly of JSB and Likiya of THE RAMPAGE). LDH also has/had a row of friendships between members of different gender where I remember that it was once said that former E-girls member Reina used to be in a friend group with some EXILE TRIBE members who met each week to play video games together etc. And BMSG is build on a level, that SKY-HI who is the CEO of the company acts like a older brother and close friend to every of his artists. You can find a lot content of him goofing around with the artists and they themself often interact a lot with eachother or the company's trainees.


    I'm not sure what people you encountered who don't like these interactions but in most companies people are actually happy when getting to see acts of different groups interacting with eachother.

    A.C.E | ATEEZ | DRIPPIN| MCND | NU'EST | ONF | SF9 | Stray Kids | TFN

  • ... OPEN WORLD MEDIA MA'AM. Omega X's was the worst this decade but seriously OPEN WORLD WAS BAD. <X

    I'm usually one for justice and fair treatment. But . Jail is too good for people like Johnny and companies like this. Death is too good for em too. But something needs to happen to them. The people behind this terrible things really need some serious punishment and I don't think what we have available is good enough

  • I'm usually one for justice and fair treatment. But . Jail is too good for people like Johnny and companies like this. Death is too good for em too. But something needs to happen to them. The people behind this terrible things really need some serious punishment and I don't think what we have available is good enough

    That is kinda why I like watching their houses get taken and money seized, it is in a weird way, justice to have them watch everything they have earned by hurting people, be taken away in an instant and the return on those seizures, being given to their victims.


    It is only right that they lose everything because of their horrible deeds. Like I truly do not feel one bit of sympathy for when people like that get out of jail and then end up homeless and alone.

    Micah Forever

    Benny's Smoll Bean



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