If IU is the best female soloist, then who is the best male soloist?

Kim Kai. If you think otherwise, you’re wrong. No I won’t be explaining further.

Suho

Psy

obviously Lim Young-woong he is the male IU

all your faves pales in comparison with his domination in SK

LYW

Quote from bethesda

"best" as in "most successful".

When we're talking about IU, best and most successful is the same thing, even tho she's an average (or above-average) vocalist, as a musician she's one of the best for sure.

Her male counterpart is obviously G-Dragon. No one else can reach their level.

Except maybe trot singers if we want to include them as well.

Jungkook if he didn't enlist, according to why knock lore

Is IU the best female soloist?

If you go by Gallup polls of S.Korea, the female soloist who has been preferred by Koreans featuring in top 10 singers for 17 odd years is Jang Yoon Jeong.

IU comes next at 11 or so years.

And there is simply no male equivalent to match them, until Lim Young Woong in recent years.

He dominates the over-40, but also is in the top 10 of under-40.

So he is the best candidate to the question.

And going by Gallup.

The Nation's GG, still is SNSD, who never left the top 5 of Gallup, all the 10 years they were active. BP/Twice did not achieve that, Maybe NJ will.

Nation's BG was Bigbang, but they have been successfully succeeded by BTS.

Female Solo: IU/Jang Yoon Jeong

Male Solo: LYW.

The most successful male idol is Jungkook. It’s just crazy how he is breaking records left and right and how he is competing alone again the biggest groups.

Probably Jungkook

GD aka G-Dragon aka the best male soloist. No explanation is needed.

Paul Kim, if we exclude LYW and other trottists.

People who were members of groups do not really qualify.

Quote from Eldeweiss

The most successful male idol is Jungkook. It’s just crazy how he is breaking records left and right and how he is competing alone again the biggest groups.

So true. Aside from breaking records, his live performances are so good. Too bad he only did few.

Globally, it's Jungkook by far.

PSY used to have the crown, but his new songs are not that successfully anymore globally.

Female globally is Lisa, also by far.

That is, if she still wants to be considered Kpop.

Otherwise, it's probably Jennie.

Jungkook has the most attention and potential right now.

Personally I don't think those from active groups should be compared with true soloists, until they put some time between their group days and solo career.

Taeyeon for example can be considered a true soloist, since SNSD barring the occasional reunion is years in the past. Or G-Dragon, Kyunhun etc.,

But BTS, BP etc., they are still based on their group reputation and fandom.

In Korea, it is Cho Young Pil, followed now by Lim Young Woong, Those who know, know.

Quote from David33

When we're talking about IU, best and most successful is the same thing, even tho she's an average (or above-average) vocalist

I keep hearing that IU is an average vocalist from unknown folks on social media

and then read something like this,

https://www.quora.com/Is-Love-Wins-All-a-good-song-for-a-vocal-K-pop-audition

Or vocal trainers claiming that her songs are difficult to sing..

I am intrigued by such divergent opinions.

I kind of sense that people are going ONLY by belting at extreme pitches as a sign of great vocalists. That is like saying only the tallest people with most reach are best at Basketball, never mind actual playmaking or scoring.

But anyway.

PSY, Jk etc

PSY, JYP or LYW

Quote from bbgc

I keep hearing that IU is an average vocalist from unknown folks on social media

and then read something like this,

https://www.quora.com/Is-Love-…or-a-vocal-K-pop-audition

Or vocal trainers claiming that her songs are difficult to sing..

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I am intrigued by such divergent opinions.

I kind of sense that people are going ONLY by belting at extreme pitches as a sign of great vocalists. That is like saying only the tallest people with most reach are best at Basketball, never mind actual playmaking or scoring.

But anyway.

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When you look at vocal tone or style, it is subjective and some people will like it and some will not like it based on that person's preference. Most people like IU based on her vocal tone and vocal style.

When you look at vocal technique, it is objective and it is not based on someone's preference. Based on vocal technique, IU is average to below average.

Quote from supa

When you look at vocal tone or style, it is subjective and some people will like it and some will not like it based on that person's preference. Most people like IU based on her vocal tone and vocal style.

When you look at vocal technique, it is objective and it is not based on someone's preference. Based on vocal technique, IU is average to below average.

Yet no vocal trainer, musician has mentioned IU's lack of technique, why?

Only thing IU 'objectively' has less is vocal range, compared to the belters. She is a mezzo-soprano who is into contralto than soprano.

But a dumbed down understanding of music, thinks only Sopranos are the best, due to their powerful belting.

That is like height/reach for basketball players.

To call anyone average based on that, is just nonsensical, for that's 99% biological.

It is like body shaming.

A basketball player of average height is not same as an average basketball player, if his playmaking is top notch and scoring.

It is almost like, well we can't accept her to be successful in every aspect of art, image and personality, so let's go with this thing, to give her a flaw.

Quote from bbgc

I keep hearing that IU is an average vocalist from unknown folks on social media

and then read something like this,

https://www.quora.com/Is-Love-…or-a-vocal-K-pop-audition

Or vocal trainers claiming that her songs are difficult to sing..

I am intrigued by such divergent opinions.

I kind of sense that people are going ONLY by belting at extreme pitches as a sign of great vocalists. That is like saying only the tallest people with most reach are best at Basketball, never mind actual playmaking or scoring.

But anyway.

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IU is one of my BIGGEST faves of ALL-TIME, and not just in Kpop, but the truth is that she's an average vocalist.

Being average, doesn't mean you're bad. It means you have limitations, and she has. "Good Day" is the prime example, that's why she said she doesn't want to sing that song again, because it's too hard and ruins her vocal cords.

Average means, your technique is lacking in a way, you don't have wide range etc. That's all. IU knows her limitations, and what she can do, she excels in that.

Just because some other people say, her songs are hard to sing, doesn't make her a top-notch vocalist, like Taeyeon, Ailee, Solar, Wheein, Hyolyn, Wendy etc.

People are OBSESSED with high notes and belting, but I'm not. Actually, many singers can do high notes, but most of them don't do it right. You can hear their voice cracking or straining. For people who don't know anything about vocals, the worst high note can sound amazing. I've seen so many people praising high notes that should be illegal to do. Again, "Good Day" is a pretty good example, or Babymonster's Ahyeon's belting and high notes.

I recommend you and everyone to watch this video.

Quote from David33

IU is one of my BIGGEST faves of ALL-TIME, and not just in Kpop, but the truth is that she's an average vocalist.

Being average, doesn't mean you're bad. It means you have limitations, and she has. "Good Day" is the prime example, that's why she said she doesn't want to sing that song again, because it's too hard and ruins her vocal cords.

Average means, your technique is lacking in a way, you don't have wide range etc. That's all. IU knows her limitations, and what she can do, she excels in that.

Just because some other people say, her songs are hard to sing, doesn't make her a top-notch vocalist, like Taeyeon, Ailee, Solar, Wheein, Hyolyn, Wendy etc.

People are OBSESSED with high notes and belting, but I'm not. Actually, many singers can do high notes, but most of them don't do it right. You can hear their voice cracking or straining. For people who don't know anything about vocals, the worst high note can sound amazing. I've seen so many people praising high notes that should be illegal to do. Again, "Good Day" is a pretty good example, or Babymonster's Ahyeon's belting and high notes.

I recommend you and everyone to watch this video.

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You say so.

I neither know singing nor you. But other professionals consider her "Top notch". That's the debate I read, so perhaps it is not as objective as measure, if there are so many different opinions.

But going by your description.

Range is to a large extent biological, isn't it? and that is why voices are categorised into Soprano, Mezzo, Contralto.

IU being Mezzo, of course her range will be lesser than Sopranos. And she would strain if hitting outside her range.

People can say she has average range, but that doesn't make her an average singer, would it?

The analogy of basketball players, a player of average height isn't an average player

That depends on his playmaking and scoring, not his height.

But anyway, doesn't matter to me. I enjoy what I enjoy.

As simple as that.

Quote from bbgc

You say so.

I neither know singing nor you. But other professionals consider her "Top notch". That's the debate I read, so perhaps it is not as objective as measure, if there are so many different opinions.

But going by your description.

But anyway, doesn't matter to me. I enjoy what I enjoy.

As simple as that.

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Actually, I do, because I work in this industry for 20 years, my mother is a vocal coach, and I learn to sing and play piano as well. But technically, I'm not a singer, because that's not my job.

She's Top-Notch in what she does, but that doesn't make her better than average vocalist! These are two different things.

Quote

Range is to a large extent biological, isn't it? and that is why voices are categorised into Soprano, Mezzo, Contralto.

Actually, that's not true! Everyone can learn to sing in a wider range over time. Soprano, Mezzo, Alto etc are basically just the voice type of your vocal timbre!

Quote

IU being Mezzo, of course her range will be lesser than Sopranos. And she would strain if hitting outside her range.

IU is not a mezzo, she's a light-soprano. A Mezzo is like Moonbyul, with lower tone! Technically, Byul and Yuqi from Gidle are a Mezzo-soprano.

IU’s Vocal Analysis

This was copy and pasted from a very good vocal analysis blog, but it's not active anymore.

Quote

People can say she has average range, but that doesn't make her an average singer, would it?

The analogy of basketball players, a player of average height isn't an average player

That depends on his playmaking and scoring, not his height.

Like I said, being average doesn't you're bad! You just have limits.

This basketball analogy is a good example that smaller players have limitations, just like IU, but it doesn't make them a bad player.

Isn't it obvious it's Jungkook

jYP IG

Quote from David33

Actually, I do, because I work in this industry for 20 years, my mother is a vocal coach, and I learn to sing and play piano as well. But technically, I'm not a singer, because that's not my job.

The Quora writer Andi Roselund's credentials read Composer/Sound Engineer, has been in Kpop/korean music industry since 1994.

The other video is Kim Sung Eun, is a vocal trainer seen in many programs, has coached TWICE, BTS members etc,.

So how can a someone like me decide which "professional" is correct?

Quote from David33

Actually, that's not true! Everyone can learn to sing in a wider range over time. Soprano, Mezzo, Alto etc are basically just the voice type of your vocal timbre!

Sure training can increase capacity, but are you telling me that they can completely overcome biological limitations? Then why are male voices categorized differently, can female vocalists support E2,E4 with training or men hit C5, easily? Even the likes of Pavarotti at prime peaked at F5. Probably Prince/Bowie could, while most women singers could.

Biology can't be trumped to that extent, you can expand to a certain degree from your nature-given range, but there are limits to that.

Quote from David33

Like I said, being average doesn't you're bad! You just have limits.

This basketball analogy is a good example that smaller players have limitations, just like IU, but it doesn't make them a bad player.

I may not know much music. But I know English. Calling anyone "average" is no compliment, as is "not bad". and in the sensitive world of kpop, it is a put down.

People who use such terms, either lack knowledge of music or contextual English or probably both.

They are indeed "average"

i would say the trotist guy

Quote from bbgc

The Quora writer Andi Roselund's credentials read Composer/Sound Engineer, has been in Kpop/korean music industry since 1994.

The other video is Kim Sung Eun, is a vocal trainer seen in many programs, has coached TWICE, BTS members etc,.

So how can a someone like me decide which "professional" is correct?

Sure training can increase capacity, but are you telling me that they can completely overcome biological limitations? Then why are male voices categorized differently, can female vocalists support E2,E4 with training or men hit C5, easily? Even the likes of Pavarotti at prime peaked at F5. Probably Prince/Bowie could, while most women singers could.

Biology can't be trumped to that extent, you can expand to a certain degree from your nature-given range, but there are limits to that.

I may not know much music. But I know English. Calling anyone "average" is no compliment, as is "not bad". and in the sensitive world of kpop, it is a put down.

People who use such terms, either lack knowledge of music or contextual English or probably both.

They are indeed "average"

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I think you misunderstood what I tried to say. I'm not saying IU isn't a professional singer or good at her job. Many people complement her as a vocalist, for a good reason, she's a good vocalist, BUT that doesn't mean she doesn't have limitations. You never gonna hear that from any pro vocalists in Kpop. It could end your whole career, especially in Korea, if you tell the truth. I said this multiple times. Being average, doesn't mean you're bad, but there are much better vocalists out there.

Anyone can learn to sing, and have a wide range. It takes a LOT of time and training. It's really hard, especially if you want to expand your range. Many singers don't do that, because it's hard, and it's not even necessary, especially in Pop music. Range is not about gender. I'm not saying anyone can sing any notes, but you can learn it if you want, but there's no point doing it if you won't use it. That's all I'm saying.

The word "average, literally means, you're good at your job! People think it's a curse word, that's why most people rate movies, shows or music the way they do. They either give 1 or a 10! But there's a middle ground, too.

If you think IU isn't average or a bit better than that, you're literally saying, she's on the same level as Ailee, Taeyeon, Wendy or any other singer, like Celine Dion, Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston.

Quote from David33

I think you misunderstood what I tried to say. I'm not saying IU isn't a professional singer or good at her job. Many people complement her as a vocalist, for a good reason, she's a good vocalist, BUT that doesn't mean she doesn't have limitations. You never gonna hear that from any pro vocalists in Kpop. It could end your whole career, especially in Korea, if you tell the truth. I said this multiple times. Being average, doesn't mean you're bad, but there are much better vocalists out there.

Anyone can learn to sing, and have a wide range. It takes a LOT of time and training. It's really hard, especially if you want to expand your range. Many singers don't do that, because it's hard, and it's not even necessary, especially in Pop music. Range is not about gender. I'm not saying anyone can sing any notes, but you can learn it if you want, but there's no point doing it if you won't use it. That's all I'm saying.

The word "average, literally means, you're good at your job! People think it's a curse word, that's why most people rate movies, shows or music the way they do. They either give 1 or a 10! But there's a middle ground, too.

If you think IU isn't average or a bit better than that, you're literally saying, she's on the same level as Ailee, Taeyeon, Wendy or any other singer, like Celine Dion, Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston.

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Well I am not going to go and ask any pro-vocalist, I am good with whatever pros have already volunteered.

With what objective data is available, EXID's Solji is probably the best vocalist in Kpop, besides I don't think Kpop as a profession needs great vocals.

I disagree that mere hard work and training can overcome all limitations, it definitely increases capacity, but still will be limited by factors like biology

Again "average" in Kpop context is a putdown, not the literal definition of the word.

If your "level" is purely the extent of Vocal Range, with no other factor like pitch control or interval jump etc... i.e. height of the basketball player, weight class of a boxer (Mayweather & Pacquiao are 'average' bcoz they aren't Heavyweights..really?), sure there are many singers inside and outside Kpop, who are at a higher level than IU.

But that is a poor way to look at any artist or sportsperson.

Anyway, I will stop here, you have not convinced me that this opinion of IU, is not derived from her not being a soprano belter.

Bob Dylan, by all accounts never was off pitch, but he is never going to be known for his singing, but only his impressive songwriting.

Since IU's lyricism, enunciation and evocation far outshines her other talents, this debate about her 'vocals' is irrelevant to her reputation.

So I will stop here.

Quote from bbgc

Well I am going to go and ask any pro-vocalist, I am good with whatever pros have already volunteered.

With what objective data is available, EXID's Solji is probably the best vocalist in Kpop, besides I don't think Kpop as a profession needs great vocals.

I disagree that mere hard work and training can overcome all limitations, it definitely increases capacity, by still will be limited by factors like biology.

Again "average" in Kpop context is a putdown, not the literal definition of the word.

If your "level" is purely the extent of Vocal Range, with no other factor like pitch control or interval jump etc... i.e. height of the basketball player, weight class of a boxer, sure there are many singers inside and outside Kpop, who are at a higher level than IU.

But that is a poor way to look at any artist or sportsperson.

Anyway, I will stop here, you have not convinced me that this opinion of IU, is not derived from her not being a soprano belter.

Bob Dylan, by all accounts never was off pitch, but he is never going to be known for his singing, but only his impressive songwriting.

So I will stop here.

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Do you know anything about IU? Do you know how she started her career? Her first ever live performance on national TV, people shout at her things like: "Pig, ugly, talentless. Did you even practice?" etc.

IU is THE embodiment of when YEARS of hard work pays off! So, stop saying nonsense things like you can't overcome your limitations with hard work. That's 100% bullshit! Many people proved that already, and not just in the music industry!

As much as I love EXID, Solji, and she's amazing, she isn't the best vocalist in Kpop! You can read analysis of pro vocal coaches here:

EXID’s Vocal Analysis: Solji

For comparison, Taeyeon, Wendy and Ailee.

Girls’ Generation’s Vocal Analysis: Taeyeon 

Ailee’s Vocal Analysis [Newly Updated] 

Red Velvet’s Vocal Analysis: Wendy 

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besides I don't think Kpop as a profession needs great vocals.

Yeah, that's the problem with Kpop. Fans and agencies think like this. That's why non-Kpop fans don't take Kpop seriously.

Quote

Since IU's lyricism and evocation far outshines her other talents, this debate about her 'vocals' is irrelevant to her reputation.

And this is why I said, she's the best soloist in Kpop. She may be not the best vocalist, bust she's a real artist! I love her, but I will never say she's the best vocalist, or she's not average or above-average.

For me, average is like giving a movie a 6-7/10. What makes IU a 10/10 is her as an artist and her performance. Where she lacks, she can compensate with those two.

Quote from David33

IU is THE embodiment of when YEARS of hard work pays off! So, stop saying nonsense things like you can't overcome your limitations with hard work. That's 100% bullshit! Many people proved that already, and not just in the music industry

BS.. you are intentionally conflating and taking words out of context. I said - You can't "ENTIRELY" overcome "BIOLOGICAL" limitations by just training.

And vocal range is highly biological - it is limited by gender, by age and by individual genes. Training can only increase capacity to an extent.

And yes, I know my IU lore well. Cheap shot of presenting as though I said she never worked hard.

You are the one calling her "average"

IU is the best female soloist? Mmm, i like Bibi more

Quote from NmiXXSupremacist

IU is the best female soloist? Mmm, i like Bibi more

There are 3 measures,

1. Statistical - there IU outdistances pretty much all soloists in Korea, even most groups.

2. Technical measure - like vocal range, pitch control etc., This ought to be objective, but people are stuck with belting as the only measure, so hold others like Ailee as better.

In any case, Statistical trumps technical.

3. Subjective - like yours being Bibi.. (but is Bibi even Kpop?), it matters to person, but does not matter to general discussion.

Even in statistical, there are many metrics and contexts, for example Lisa/Jennie probably outsold, outstreamed IU, in total. But that statistical heft comes from being a part of a popular group.

So it may not be a good idea to put Soloists from active groups, with others.

Quote from bbgc

There are 3 measures,

1. Statistical - there IU outdistances pretty much all soloists in Korea, even most groups.

2. Technical measure - like vocal range, pitch control etc., This ought to be objective, but people are stuck with belting as the only measure, so hold others like Ailee as better.

In any case, Statistical trumps technical.

3. Subjective - like yours being Bibi.. (but is Bibi even Kpop?), it matters to person, but does not matter to general discussion.

Even in statistical, there are many metrics and contexts, for example Lisa/Jennie probably outsold, outstreamed IU, in total. But that statistical heft comes from being a part of a popular group.

So it may not be a good idea to put Soloists from active groups, with others.

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About the point number 2. Is she the best technically? I thought Taeyeon was better

PD: She makes pop music, and she sing in Korean. Looks like Kpop to me

Quote from NmiXXSupremacist

About the point number 2. Is she the best technically? I thought Taeyeon was better

Well that is also debated. IU does not have the reputation of being the top technical vocalist.

But the reasons don't add up.

In boxing there are a bunch of weight classes, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson were Heavyweight champions.

But Floyd Mayweather/Pacquiao have won multiple other weight classes but not heavyweight. Would they not be considered top notch boxers?

That seems to be the case with IU. Like weight classes, vocals have 'range', apparently people consider only sopranos who belt at extreme range as a top vocalists.

Since I am not a vocal professional and opinions from pros vary, I can only say I don't know.

Read this for example

https://www.quora.com/Is-Love-…or-a-vocal-K-pop-audition

or this