yes...there's a reason why youtube views from the US pay out more than views from Thailand. Same goes for Spotify streams. There's a reason Lisa partnered with a US label instead of a Thai label. She could have released a Thai song as her solo but she released an English song.

Yup, they're worth a lot more financially.

Without SEA the numbers cannot be sustained

So yes they are quite important

Spotify barely pays whether you’re American or Thai so I don’t get the comments here

Quote from Jenchulichaengbp

In particularly Thailand. I’ve seen people not only downplay them but basically K-pop is never gonna make people diverse it’s only gonna make them more racist eps those kids who are now on social media before they don’t really discriminate SEA people but once they are so dedicated in that culture they learn how to discriminate from the things they follow. It’s imitation theory

I think I get what you mean. In a geopolitical or kpop discourse some countries and cultures are deemed more important or highly valued. “Kids” who didn’t not have any particular perception about SEA now imitate what they see on social media and suddenly downplay SEA countries (which btw is not a fcking monolith but extremly diverse).

I will also say if you want to discuss racism or fetish towards East Asians you’re on a futile errand since such aspects is a part of the whole kpop experience. Superyeah once wrote a great comment about the weird and semi-racist attitude I-fans (I guess he meant western fans) have towards Asia in general and Korea in particular.

Many things written on this forum would be considered highly racist if it was about any other country/cultures but against east Asia it’s too normalized

Lisa herself made the choice to release an all English song for the American/Western/Global markets. If you asked her point blank whether she would prefer to chart #1 in the Hot 100 or chart #1 in Thailand....what do you think her answer would be?

I believe Billboard charts weights by the country. It is related to the average wage and hence what percent of the population can afford to buy an album or pay for a concert ticket.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Lisa herself made the choice to release an all English song for the American/Western/Global markets. If you asked her point blank whether she would prefer to chart #1 in the Hot 100 or chart #1 in Thailand....what do you think her answer would be?

OMG House! I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with you!

Reading this thread, I'm reminded once again that Kpop fans should never engage in political discourse.

Quote from alexS

its something like .0001 percent of the cost of premium. Youtube pays better its at around 0.005

.003 vs .002; Spotify pays a little better than YouTube music according to this website. Obviously how this is paid out varies by country as the memberships cost vary by country.

pasted-from-clipboard.png

How Much Do Artists Actually Make From Streaming Services? | Blog

Music streaming has changed the way billions of consumers get their music, but between streaming platforms and the record labels, this leaves the artists in an…

cloudcovermusic.com

Quote from Jenchulichaengbp

In particularly Thailand. I’ve seen people not only downplay them but basically K-pop is never gonna make people diverse it’s only gonna make them more racist eps those kids who are now on social media before they don’t really discriminate SEA people but once they are so dedicated in that culture they learn how to discriminate from the things they follow. It’s imitation theory

"streams from white"

While SEA high in stream, SEA are low in physical sales. They don't just have the buying power. While US,Japan,and korea itself has high rank on physical sales. Stream is nothing compared to physical sales. 10k units in physical sales will be equivalent to 1.2m stream.

That's why song made to caters buyer on that region. Made song in English also reach more listeners even for SEA since most SEA familiar with English song and don't mind with it,compared to Japan who more into language they understand.

Business wise, target market are profitable in us, Jpan, and Korea. Still, SEA can boost streaming number a.k.a popularity in chart,so they primarily use idols for concert profit or model for advertisement.

It's all business,has nothing to do with racism.

But if you asked are these idols see US fans more important than SEA fans, well, they are still human in which they will have favourite also. So, yes, in personal level, they probably will give more privilege to white foreigners more than SEA just like the majority of koreans.

Quote from alexS

its actually not racism, its percentage of how much YT premium and Spotify premium costs in the counties.

It's still racism. Like you may not be entirely wrong with the 'reasons' from a monetary standpoint, but it's still racism.

I had an example that I can use but I'll wait for the response.

TLDR - the excuse or reasoning doesn't mean it isn't racism. It still is.

Capitalism is inherently racist. By pointing out that it's part of capitalism - then yeah, it's racism.

And I think the OP's points about the argument used by people when discussing SEA are *shockingly racist*, which they are. I've seen literal people outright dismiss an entire country of 71.7 million people as listeners or fans. Particularly in response to Lisa's song.

It's been a study in contrasts - all the SEA fans of BTS are part and parcel of Jimin's song have a strong spotify debut, and not a word is breathed, but Lisa's song has also had a strong spotify debut and everywhere (by many BTS fans, funnily enough) there's 'bot farms' and 'thai streaming' and all sorts of shockingly racist nonsense.

And we've no measure on how many people in other countries are listeners on premium, or not, how many people are spending money or not - in the end all the arguments boil down to looking down upon developing countries as lesser, which is pure, distilled, racism.

Holy mother of god has it been a mask off moment in kpop spaces lately in regards to absolute, shocking racism.

Also, I hate the song, can't stand Blackpink, and I'm not from SEA. Just in case people try to dismiss this as some one-eyed fan response.

Quote from Disevidence

It's still racism. Like you may not be entirely wrong with the 'reasons' from a monetary standpoint, but it's still racism.

I had an example that I can use but I'll wait for the response.

TLDR - the excuse or reasoning doesn't mean it isn't racism. It still is.

Capitalism is inherently racist. By pointing out that it's part of capitalism - then yeah, it's racism.

And I think the OP's points about the argument used by people when discussing SEA are *shockingly racist*, which they are. I've seen literal people outright dismiss an entire country of 71.7 million people as listeners or fans. Particularly in response to Lisa's song.

It's been a study in contrasts - all the SEA fans of BTS are part and parcel of Jimin's song have a strong spotify debut, and not a word is breathed, but Lisa's song has also had a strong spotify debut and everywhere (by many BTS fans, funnily enough) there's 'bot farms' and 'thai streaming' and all sorts of shockingly racist nonsense.

And we've no measure on how many people in other countries are listeners on premium, or not, how many people are spending money or not - in the end all the arguments boil down to looking down upon developing countries as lesser, which is pure, distilled, racism.

Holy mother of god has it been a mask off moment in kpop spaces lately in regards to absolute, shocking racism.

Also, I hate the song, can't stand Blackpink, and I'm not from SEA. Just in case people try to dismiss this as some one-eyed fan response.

Display More

it's not racist, it's classist. Consumers with higher disposable income will always have importance over those that don't. In Thailand the average person makes 10-20K baht/month...which is $270-$545...or $3,240-$6,540/yr.

Lmao but no one is fighting stating "omg your artist is making less than my artist/group" are they...

They simply complain about the number of views and brush it off stating it's views from SEA...

Kpop literally is carried by SEA... BP wouldn't even have survived the long hiatus without SEA fans would they... Korea stopped caring about them after sometime but because of the number of views they couldn never be considered small or fading or "not a big group" ... in today's world numbers speaks...

Fans don't complain when the most popular Korean idols get support from Korea irrespective of song type or style but when Lisa does good it's brushed off as SEA views when literally most of your groups are carried and sustained by SEA fans...

Even other Thai artists didn't get the same push as Lisa did, esp when Lisa didn't even get to work much in Thailand so Lisa is a Anamoly even in her own country.

Quote from 0ppar

it's not racist, it's classist. Consumers with higher disposable income will always have importance over those that don't. In Thailand the average person makes 10-20K baht/month...which is $270-$545...or $3,240-$6,540/yr.

Ok then, we should also then basically nix South Korea from any measures then too. In fact the entire Asia's spending is half of what the US is alone.

Your basically saying that the only market that matters is the US, Australia, Europe. Western countries are the only ones that matter, according to 0ppar. Not racist at all.

Have people here suddenly forgotten that English is used worldwide and the language is not limited to the west? Singing in English widens your reach to not only the western market but also the international market. And for most companies, international reach >>>> being a hot shot in a single country (which in itself is not easy).

fans brag about korean charting and korean streaming numbers all the time but korean platforms pay pennies. but its fine cause theyre just proud of the impact/popularity of the song and artist, not trying to brag about revenue. should be the same with SEA, unless the topic is specifically about revenue theres no need to diminish SEA streams. a stream is a stream.

Quote from Disevidence

Ok then, we should also then basically nix South Korea from any measures then too. In fact the entire Asia's spending is half of what the US is alone.

Your basically saying that the only market that matters is the US, Australia, Europe. Western countries are the only ones that matter, according to 0ppar. Not racist at all.

South Korea leads the world in per capita spending on personal luxury goods.

Quote from Disevidence

It's still racism. Like you may not be entirely wrong with the 'reasons' from a monetary standpoint, but it's still racism.

I had an example that I can use but I'll wait for the response.

TLDR - the excuse or reasoning doesn't mean it isn't racism. It still is.

Capitalism is inherently racist. By pointing out that it's part of capitalism - then yeah, it's racism.

And I think the OP's points about the argument used by people when discussing SEA are *shockingly racist*, which they are. I've seen literal people outright dismiss an entire country of 71.7 million people as listeners or fans. Particularly in response to Lisa's song.

It's been a study in contrasts - all the SEA fans of BTS are part and parcel of Jimin's song have a strong spotify debut, and not a word is breathed, but Lisa's song has also had a strong spotify debut and everywhere (by many BTS fans, funnily enough) there's 'bot farms' and 'thai streaming' and all sorts of shockingly racist nonsense.

And we've no measure on how many people in other countries are listeners on premium, or not, how many people are spending money or not - in the end all the arguments boil down to looking down upon developing countries as lesser, which is pure, distilled, racism.

Holy mother of god has it been a mask off moment in kpop spaces lately in regards to absolute, shocking racism.

Also, I hate the song, can't stand Blackpink, and I'm not from SEA. Just in case people try to dismiss this as some one-eyed fan response.

Display More

It's not based on that. It's actually tied to GDP. Premium costs vary by country. Where I live, Netflix, AM, and Spotify premiums are much cheaper. I pay around $1.99 for AM, about $1.50 for Spotify, and $6 for Netflix.

In the US, AM and Spotify charge $10.99/11.99. Therefore, revenue distribution depends on the actual earnings from streams relative to premium prices.

There is really no racism here. It’s just a reflection of our capitalistic society

Quote from 0ppar

it's not racist, it's classist. Consumers with higher disposable income will always have importance over those that don't. In Thailand the average person makes 10-20K baht/month...which is $270-$545...or $3,240-$6,540/yr.

Where do you get these numbers, because I found completely different numbers? This is 2021 study.

According to Salary Explorer, Thailand has a salary range of 24,500 THB (725 USD) to 433,000 THB (12,819 USD) in a month. And its average monthly salary is 96,900 THB (@@@57b62313-c4e6-498d-bada-59ffcd36c73c@@@,869 USD).

average salary in Thailand is 2,8k$ month which is pretty close to European countries

Rankings by Country of Average Monthly Net Salary (After Tax) (Salaries And Financing) (numbeo.com)

What’s racist is that Lisa being number 1 in her country is not worth much cuz she’s Thai. Excuse me but Bam Bam and Sorn never got this much hype in Thailand.

Quote from alexS

its something like .0001 percent of the cost of premium. Youtube pays better its at around 0.005

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

.003 vs .002; Spotify pays a little better than YouTube music according to this website. Obviously how this is paid out varies by country as the memberships cost vary by country.

pasted-from-clipboard.png

https://cloudcovermusic.com/bl…s-make-streaming-services

All redistribute 70% of the income. People use these numbers that bundle Free and Premium together to "prove" Apple Music is better but it's infactual because Apple Music does not have a free tier. If you only consider Premium streams all pay basically the same. It's always 70% of the income independent of the service. Tidal pays more because it's more expensive.

Quote from Afriyieau1

It's not based on that. It's actually tied to GDP. Premium costs vary by country. Where I live, Netflix, AM, and Spotify premiums are much cheaper. I pay around $1.99 for AM, about $1.50 for Spotify, and $6 for Netflix.

In the US, AM and Spotify charge $10.99/11.99. Therefore, revenue distribution depends on the actual earnings from streams relative to premium prices.

There is really no racism here. It’s just a reflection of our capitalistic society

Capitalism is at it's inherent core racist. You said it's a reflection of a capitalistic society - the entire world capitalism is designed to exploit the global south. And it's very essence it's racist. It builds upon and functions on systemic power structures.

2 Things -

First of all, what are the Thai fans supposed to do - donate an extra 10 bucks per month to Spotify so you take them seriously? They pay what the offer is, but apparently that's not a reflection of popularity,

Secondly, and more importantly - no-one, not you, any of the people on twitter or even in this thread, is arguing in good faith or gives 2 fucking shits about the income of Spotify. What are you all, a fucking shareholder of Spotify all of a sudden?

Measurement of popularity is a measurement of demographics. In my country, and in America too, you don't measure votes by income, you measure votes by population (with the usual crap about differences due to senate blah blah). My vote as a person is worth the same as someone making double my income and half my income. That's what literally a measure of popularity is.

Now, all of a sudden, people go 'hey this song is popular', because it legitimately is, and we've got the fucking financial wizards breaking out their abacus going 'welp I'm sorry their income just isn't good enough to warrant their streams being recognised'. Such utter, utter bullshit.

Lastly, classism and racism are heavily intertwined. The entire SEA continents were suppressed and colonised for years, exploited because of the racist colonial attitudes of Western Powers and other imperial powers, trying to improve their GDP in a world stacked against them. The fact that they have low spending is directly from how most of these SEA continents were colonial outposts administered and exploited. Like you couldn't get a more fucking textbook definition of structual and global racism then the GDP and lifestyles of most developing nations, and people here trying to make some sort of isolated 'oh it's only classism' argument.

Fucking hell people in this thread need to pick up a book.

Thailand is a small music market far below US so yeah, plus since kpop has barely been popular there for a small period of time anything you achieve there looks more amazing. And yes there is a lot of discrimination too, but isn't just with SEA, I remember blinks claiming 1 single unit sale on the US on 2019 when twice still didn't debut there was worth 154584455 twice japan sales.

This also apply for apple music too. If a song charts high in the u.s and Japan, then it will guarantee to chart in Global chart.

Spotify and youtube seem fair because it based on streams regardless of counry.

Quote from randkpopstan

Thailand is a small music market far below US so yeah, plus since kpop has barely been popular there for a small period of time anything you achieve there looks more amazing. And yes there is a lot of discrimination too, but isn't just with SEA, I remember blinks claiming 1 single unit sale on the US on 2019 when twice still didn't debut there was worth 154584455 twice japan sales.

"kpop has barely been popular there for a small period of time anything you achieve there looks more amazing. "

so when did kpop reach USA???? Did it reach USA before teeny tiny Thailand