I have a controversial opinion : if idols feel apologetic for non issue scandals I no longer feel sorry for them for the hate they receive

most of the times it's definitely the company that makes them apologize publicly. i seriously doubt seunghan for example feels genuinely sorry for having a gf or smoking.

I see the point you're making

Yeah, I don't think that's an opinion I get behind, but interesting perspective.

Cultural perspectives also are important here. Korea like most asian countries is a collectivist society and all these idols are raised that way. So even if it is a non-issue scandal, if it is bringing damage to the group, I think its understandable for the idol to be apologetic about the whole situation even if its not their fault.

This is why I could never be an idol. I’d be cancelled every day and I’m too stubborn to apologize

I wouldn’t blame the idol as in many cases, the companies force them to apologise.

What I hate is when idols blatantly feed delusional fans with parasocial crap, like “[fandom name] is my ideal type.”

Then don’t get to complain about the crazies that get the wrong idea 🤷🏻‍♂️

Idols really be like "I'm really sorry that I cheated on my partner when I was 5, please forgive me."

At least some of the more popular idols can ignore those "controversies"

Sadly not all idols can do that and some companies even kick out the idol before asking

Yeah, they should stop apologizing for things that are stupid.

but the question is what is a "non-issue scandal"

like most things kpop different strokes for different folks no?

what is a scandal to one person might be different to another

K-fans vs I-fans for example differ on what is a scandal - ie the abovementioned smoking or having a gf

for every "non-issue scandal" there are those that will defend their favs to the death and those that will condemn them to the death

to me it's a lose lose - since no matter what an idol does some part of the fandom/general public/ etc will criticize you for it

Quote from ISaidISaid

Imo then they are the main perpetuators of the toxic things

Idc if that’s harsh but you have to stand your ground if you need things to change.

Hmm not a good take. This issue is complex and is often a two fold issue. One being societal and cultural, thr other being the agencies and the customer is always right attitude.

Here in Asia mainly in Korea and Japan and to some Extent China. Its common for people to apologize for something even if they were not the cause of the trouble, this comes from people favoring more of community than the individual and seeking to avoid conflicts, it's one of the reasons there's usually on average less violence than our western counterparts.

Making Changes to this will not happen overnight considering how deep seated it is in the society.

Quote from selfmate

what is a scandal to one person might be different to another

K-fans vs I-fans for example differ on what is a scandal - ie the abovementioned smoking or having a gf

Exactly, ifans see dating etc as a non issue. Whereas Koreans see "cultural appropriation" is a non issue which is why so many people wear xyz hairstyles and clothing without much thought, because in this part of the world and in most countries CA doesn't exist it's alien to them, as most countries want to share their culture, its why it's very common to see foreigners dressed up in another's formal clothing and hairstyles as the people there WANT you to indulge,adopt and learn from their culture, people genuinely get happy af seeing you show interest in their culture..

So yeah this whole what is and Isn't a non issue thing is far too complex to pick one side

Nope, not a good take.

Chen says sorry to fans for getting engaged and his girlfriend's pregnancy. People keep attacking him for it till this day. So, apparently he deserves it as he's 'the main perpetrator of toxic things'?

Tzuyu says sorry for holding her country's flag when she was only 16. People still give her a hard time. Is she also 'the main perpetrator of toxic things'?

For us, all of this are not a controversy at all but the rage both of them receive, didn't show that.

Life isn't as simple as black and white. These idols can't do whatever without affecting their group. They bound with contracts and their actions reflect on their group reputation. It's easy for us to say it's not a big deal, but in cases like Chen and Tzuyu, what can they really do? They're scared of ruining their group's image and success. It's not only potentially destroyed their careers but also their teammates.

That's why soloists might seem more careless about controversy, they only have themselves to worry about.

So, what is "issue" or "non-issue"? Who is it to defy and how? You, by your own one fixed standard? That is a pure form of ignorant I believe.

i think it is much deeper than that

As someone pointed out, what is "non-issue" is debatable. Some might think underage smoking is not acceptable by their societal norm, and hence it is an issue. But some foreign fans might think it is not an issue. Same with drug. Illegal in SKor but might be legalised in some countries.

Most of the time you will see Kfans vs Ifans debating over this, that's because their societal norms are different by default.

In addition to that, unfortunately "fans" are the customer of idols. With the mentality that "customers are always right", you will see company / idol apologise no matter whether they sincerely think themselves at fault. Not that i agree with this mentality but let's put yourself in the shoes as a customer calling to customer service center. 100% of the time the customer service officer will apologise no matter whether they think they're right or wrong. This is to calm the customer and prevent losing them as customer.

Quote from ISaidISaid

The definition doesn’t quite matter. It can be anything anyone believes in. It’s the principle of it.

If someone apologizes then it means they think it’s wrong or bad. That’s all I’m saying.

If you truly believe dating is bad I guess good for you? I guess? But the point of the thread is not to debate what a “non issue” is.

Quote from ISaidISaid

No it’s not. There’s no ambiguity or question on what a non issue is. Non issues are things that people don’t have any issue doing themselves for example Koreans absolutely date and get married but they don’t want their idols to do it. Hence “non issue”

These are the issues people force on idols because of their perceived sense of ownership over them.

but semantics and definitions matter...

you say it's the principle of it - well principles differ between person to person...your principles differ from mine (maybe) and may also differ from kpop idols...

in regards to dating

some people have an issue with their idols dating - am I saying those people are right? F no but they made an issue out of it - If I recall with regards to Chen (obviously you as a exol know more about the situation) but if I remember when his "issue" came out there were some fans who wanted to cancel him and it turns out there was like 12 of them lol who burned all their exo/chen merch and albums and whatnot - in regards to chen was this a significant issue - no but it was an issue right?

it seems to me you are defining non-issue as a non-significant issue

aplogises

if you point is only when idols apologise (or not apologise) does it make it wrong/ bad - have you never apologised for causing issues in the first place and you only apologised to keep the peace? in regards to tuzyu and the flag incident - I think we can all say that she only apologised to keep the peace and because JYP made her

If I recall reading Park Bom also apologised for the "drug incident" where she brought legally prescribed drugs into SK - again I don't think she's wrong to do so and ultimately I don't think even she considers what she did to be wrong but one needed to apoligise to "keep the peace" so to speak

I'm pretty sure lots of idols apologise when they don't really mean it - either because the company forced them to or they just wanted to keep the peace

and I guess going back to your earlier point that not all idols have the luxury to be able to speak freely - like us they are human and employees and do not all have the courage or the means to stand their ground... a lot of them especially the more nugu and less successful groups do as dictated by the company

and also the point that what makes you think they want to effect change...for a lot of them this is their livelihood their job their career and if they debuted young that's all their skillset (lots of them drop or or attend non academic high schools etc etc) - a lot of them don't have the power to effect change nor do they want to - some probably just want to sing/dance/perform enjoy kpop for what it is...

Silly matters like apologizing for dating is just the norm in K-pop. I agree that I think it's bizarre for idols to have to apologize for dating/smoking/swearing etc, but I would still feel bad for them because that's what they have to do as an idol. The job is basically just to please fans and make them happy so they keep giving your company money. That's just how it is.

Quote from ISaidISaid

I will only apologize if something is deserved. That’s actually exactly the point.

Yeah I don’t believe everything is forced by company. That’s about it. People who think that are free to do so. If an adult idol who has been in the industry for a good few years apologizes because they were forced that actually makes me think even less of them than even the issue they’re apologizing for. Imagine still living like that. Lol.

Again tbh I’m not here to debate what a non issue is. It can be whatever. If someone apologizes do you believe they think what they did was wrong or not. That’s the question.

I believe that they do. I don’t give them a pass.

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understandable I can respect your convictions and I guess you also understand that not everyone shares those convictions of yours...( like me lol - 'tis better to live as a coward than die as a hero)

that is true I also don't believe that everything is dictated by the company especially as one gets more senior and has more power over their career and even more so in the big3/4...you seem like the person that would live and die by one's convictions - for other people their career - livelihood - money even are their convictions and they would prioritise those first before their personal convictions

to answer your question - that would depend on the circumstances my friend - there are no two situations that are the same - some people truly are remorseful and genuinely sorry - others do it only because they were called out or caught or their apology is designed to get the media off their back so to speak...whatever the apology I will judge each according to it's own merits

you have a right to that opinion my friend and you can absolutely judge certain idols based on what you perceive to be their convictions/character (or lack thereof) but I'm sure you can also understand that other people may have a different criteria for their convictions/character

Quote from ISaidISaid

Chen was never apologetic lol. He never said sorry for getting married. He owned it. EXO openly attended his wedding and celebrated it.

Yes if he had said sorry and EXO had gone ahead or pretended like as if he wasn’t married or kicked him out like Suju I would have dropped their asses in a heartbeat.

Don’t blabber nonsense if you didn’t keep track of things.

EXO's Chen writes apology letter to fans about sudden news of fiancee's pregnancy

EXO's Chen wrote a letter of apology to EXO-L after the sudden news of his fiancee's pregnancy.On February 19, Chen posted…

www.allkpop.com

Lol, so what type of apologies fit in your narrative then? At least tell the specifications lol. You never tell at all. Well, see, as I said, it's not black and white at all. Even you know it by your comment here. You never say the form of apologies here, as obviously, an apology is still an apology.

This is not about Exo at all and the decision to keep him in the team but Chen, who apologized for his engagement announcement.

Don't tell me, 'he's not apologizing for that, it's different' as it's still an apology lol. The word was there after all, and it's indeed a non-controversy that should not be apologized for. And Exol themselves say thay he should not apologies for simply getting engaged and having a baby so don't tell me otherwise. And how about Tzuyu then? Does she deserve to be attacked just because she has no power to say no?

Singer Goo Ha-ra apologizes for suicide attempt

Recovering from a suicide attempt this week, South Korean singer and entertainer Goo Ha-ra apologized to the public on Tuesday for causing concerns. The…

www.google.com

How about this where Go Hara apologies for her suicide attempt before she passed away when knetz bashed her for that where later she passed away because of it? Did it actually include in the main perpetrator of the toxic things as she finally succeeded doing it in the end?

Like what lol?

Quote from Blossomin88

Chen says sorry to fans for getting engaged and his girlfriend's pregnancy. People keep attacking him for it till this day. So, apparently he deserves it as he's 'the main perpetrator of toxic things'?

Chen controversy was this big because he DIDN'T apologize, he just announced news, never apologized. That's why they hate him, he was never sorry for what he did

I think idols are individuals who feel apologetic for different issues. What may be issue for them may not be issue for you or me.

Quote from Blossomin88

https://www.allkpop.com/articl…ews-of-fiancees-pregnancy

Lol, so what type of apologies fit in your narrative then? At least tell the specifications lol. You never tell at all. Well, see, as I said, it's not black and white at all. Even you know it by your comment here. You never say the form of apologies here, as obviously, an apology is still an apology.

This is not about Exo at all and the decision to keep him in the team but Chen, who apologized for his engagement announcement.

Don't tell me, 'he's not apologizing for that, it's different' as it's still an apology lol. The word was there after all, and it's indeed a non-controversy that should not be apologized for. And Exol themselves say thay he should not apologies for simply getting engaged and having a baby so don't tell me otherwise. And how about Tzuyu then? Does she deserve to be attacked just because she has no power to say no?

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He apologized for wording of his previous letter not for his marriage and child which is why kfans hated this anannouncement. Whole issue with Chen is that he doesn't feel sorry enough.

Quote from sveznalica

He apologized for wording of his previous letter not for his marriage and child which is why kfans hated this anannouncement. Whole issue with Chen is that he doesn't feel sorry enough.

That's still a non-issue thus making him the main perpetrator of the toxicity instead of the people actually choosing to write and send the hate.

Quote from Roger-Kevin

That's still a non-issue thus making him the main perpetrator of the toxicity instead of the people actually choosing to write and send the hate.

That doesn't make any sense tho

I get where you're coming from but human beings are not that simple, there is so much complexity to everyone's behaviour. I wonder what kind of person I would grow up to be if I was taken at a young age in an idol agency away from parents, worked to bones, body shamed by the same agency while they snatch my food and then suddenly exposed to millions of people who monitor even the way you eat/talk/look and then worshiped as an object of affection or a punching hate bag. Then when you do something that out of status quo to save company face you write an apology because they are paying your bills. Self esteem what? Opinions - you are not allowed to have any, Freedom - nonexistent, Normal relationships like friends and family - what even is that? And the list goes on.

That's why I have immense respect for idols like chen, jihyo, lisa, jennie and many others who went through all that bs and still stand their ground.

I agree with the fact that idols should learn to stand their ground and not give in to hate but i disagree with the fact that they had it coming and deserve it.

Quote from sveznalica

That doesn't make any sense tho

*Any apology making someone the main perpetrator doesn't make sense. Regardless how how Chen worded it, whether he specified he was saying sorry for the message, the marriage or the pregnancy the person actually chosing to send the hate should be equally responsible for their own actions even if they got the idol so far as to apologies or not.

Be like Kim Taehyung I personally feel that he's just a very honest man. He doesn't seem like the type to take shit from people, whether those be dating rumors or people hating on him for nothing. He expresses himself how he wishes to and we all know, not everyone likes to hear the truth. For example, there were some dating rumors when he had gone to an art fair and they turned out to be false. Tae went his own way to express his anger in a very straightforward way on weverse-

When shippers cross their lines

When some fans make fun of him because of his glasses

And you can find dozens of examples like this.