I think it's the nature of the game.
The idol industry is a visual industry.
Perfectly fine. Perfectly normal.
I think It less about talent or visuals and more about overall vibes/fiting well the concept prepared by the company.
I have Korean comments in front of me saying that this idol shouldn't be an idol because of their visual. I won't give a name but I would like my question answered.
If for example you have to do a job as a saleswoman, would you find it normal that the company refuses to hire you despite your very good skills because of your visual? It's my question if it can be easier to understand
Thing is, this doesn't happen for the idol industry
It literally happens in real life as well.
Good looking and fitter people generally on average tend to do better as well because of how society sees them
And that's my point why everyone think it's normal for an idol, but if someone tell them "you can't do this job cause you're fucking fat and ugly" it's not ok.
that's unfortunately how it is...it doesn't matter how good I am at a job i'm short and "not thin" but i'm not "that fat" either and I never "qualify" for things...if you are going to be at a front desk or the first person they see they want someone good looking or skinny or whatever right there. It's really stupid. In an industry where it should be about the music and talent they really shouldn't shove people away because they aren't "their ideal size/look" it really should be about THEIR TALENT. "big" people are beautiful too and I wish that was more normalized in society. Some people can't help that they aren't thin, there's medical reasons, trauma, various things etc. i hate that people think like this.
I have Korean comments in front of me saying that this idol shouldn't be an idol because of their visual. I won't give a name but I would like my question answered.
If for example you have to do a job as a saleswoman, would you find it normal that the company refuses to hire you despite your very good skills because of your visual? It's my question if it can be easier to understand
I think It isn't normal to be straight up honest and saying they aren't hiring someone because they aren't good looking enough in any culture. I believe some are and some don't. But It's definitely normal to avoid hiring people for it everywhere.
When they aren't saying on your face, they just say they will call you later after being interviewed and don't. Or create another reason to explain why they won't.
I'm not an idol, but in my profession, It's normal to watch people being rejected for their looks and what they are wearing.
I won't say it's a good thing perse, moreso it depends on what kind of image the company is building on the group. However, that doesn't necessary give them the right to degrade or give a backhanded compliment to someone. Just being a decent human being is not that hard.
It happens on all aspect of the workforce. I know some companies REQUIRES you to submit your application and your photo attached...
Depending on the position that you're applying, appearances matters. You want a good looking person, or a friendly looking person as a receptionist. If you run a gym and hired trainers, they better be fit AF. If you're debuting a group, you need visuals, because the market is so saturated that the public opinion will literally swipe left if the group doesn't catch their eyes.
So no, I don't think it's fair, but that's the culture that we're all so obsessed about. And we don't bat an eye at it, because it is 'normal'. I'm just glad RBW CEO didn't get a fuck, and here we are.
This is the reality in the world we live.
Example: I'm a manager at my company. If I have two equal candidates I'm hiring the person that is better looking/healthier. It's that simple. There are numerous studies that show that attractive people are more likely to get hired, have better evaluations, more confident, etc.
It's not a good thing but we live in a world where looks matter first talent after.
Display Morekillingtime1934 xx-jenn-xx Minazuki ABoredStan icyruios
To stay on the same subject but a little different. How would you explain that these visual criteria are more and more important all over the world while on the contrary more progressive ideas (mostly from USA) about gender, skin color ... are also progressing more and more.
For example, even in the West we have had similar cases in the last 20 years, the singer Adele, for example, had been greatly criticized at her beginnings for her appearance despite her talent.
When we look at the artists of the 60s/70s, some were very beautiful but many were also very far from the standards of beauty and yet that did not prevent them from starting a career.
Honestly?
The "wokeness" a lot of it is performative. Lets be real everyone has their own preferences, but are afraid that if they voice them out they will get cancelled
You and I are also biased, in our everyday lives
For example, if you are to choose between 2 empty seats, of which both are literally the same. The only difference is the people sitting beside that seat. Everything comes into play, race/gender/looks/body, it is undeniable that you have an innate bias and tendency to gravitate to your own preference.
Same for workplace, or whatever industry. A lot of "progressive ideas" are just ...... performative to me when deep down everyone still has their own preferences.
I'd call some of those cases an outliers.
MMM for instance, when they debuted they are against major labels and other groups. Their beauty is not the standard for public opinion at the time. But through working their asses off they made it. It is depending on how progressive and acceptant the country is. SK is all about appearances, saving faces, visuals. That is their culture, maybe even so for alot of Asian countries.
Are there other groups like MMM (SK)? Certainly, but how many succeeded like MMM? So they are an outlier that got through with their skills. Even Soyeon from GIDLE had talked about how people viewed her, that her visual is not on par- but she still made it. However, even then, GIDLE still had visuals in their group.
You can definitely start your career in whatever you do, but the question is, would it take off? Would you get as popular as Adele? Not having the public visual interests at hands would definitely 'handicap' you. But hey, nothing is definite, maybe 10-20 years down the line you'll have a black brother singing nuna yeppeoseo-yo. Idk man.
On another note; the west have laws regarding discrimination when applying, but hey, that don't stop companies. They'll just give a different excuse.
I mean everyone gets ps so it should not be a blocker imo
I would rather take a look at how those young teenagers take care of themselves
do they have some self-care in their minds already
do they workout
or they are those type of lazy ones who will learn choreo, perform for two weeks in music shows and then after some time complain that they hate physical activities, and they want to eat all fast foods in the worlds, and this and that
before you came at me, no worries I don't expect Idols to be like professional athletes
but in same time when you eat tons of unhealthy food it's your own mistake that you later need to pay for to lose that
so you shouldn't complain
as for fact the hope is that none companies will force kids into plastic surgeries that's fkn wrong...
and you can always teach kid how to take care of himself/herself, or hire a coach for him/her
for example STAYC's J revealed not long ago that High Up got coaches for girls, and J has learned that when she can't go to gym, she is on her own doing some simple excercises in dorm/home
and things like that actually allows Idols eat more food, even the unhealthy fast foods or snacks
another example is Oh My Girl's Mimi who is munching all types of snacks, ice creams, and eats whatever she likes because she is taking boxing classes, and goes for a run in her free time, from time to time
Display Morekillingtime1934 xx-jenn-xx Minazuki ABoredStan icyruios
To stay on the same subject but a little different. How would you explain that these visual criteria are more and more important all over the world while on the contrary more progressive ideas (mostly from USA) about gender, skin color ... are also progressing more and more.
For example, even in the West we have had similar cases in the last 20 years, the singer Adele, for example, had been greatly criticized at her beginnings for her appearance despite her talent.
When we look at the artists of the 60s/70s, some were very beautiful but many were also very far from the standards of beauty and yet that did not prevent them from starting a career.
I, personally don't know how to explain it....it doesn't make sense to me. Adele at first was not thin and she made a name for herself based on her talent, of course she gave in to the pressure and lost a lot of weight, but then you see Kelly Clarkson who's been up and down in weight and basically said screw it and does what she wants. Those two examples are perfect to say hey, you don't need to be THAT THIN to be an amazing artist. You don't need to run and jump all over the stage to put on a good show, and I wish that THESE DAYS in THESE TIMES, they would use those examples and stop judging people based on their bodies and looks. Yes Kelly and Adele are beautiful women but they are a prime example that they don't have to be perfect to be talented. It's a very hard subject I think, we all know it's industry standards, but we all can agree we hate it. Not everyone is overweight due to bad eating, there's many many medical conditions that cause this. There's many problems that prevent people from being able to go in and lose it.
I wish people would understand that MEDICAL and other factors play a part in why others are not the standard norm.
It's not a good thing but we live in a world where looks matter first talent after.
But isn't this precisely a reason to point the problem and want to change things? Because if we simply apply the logic of "it's like that" then for the other causes also we can say that.
Racism ? "it's like that"
Homophobia ? "it's like that"
You are paid less than your male colleague? "it's like that"
Society would never evolve then
Display MoreBut isn't this precisely a reason to point the problem and want to change things? Because if we simply apply the logic of "it's like that" then for the other causes also we can say that.
Racism ? "it's like that"
Homophobia ? "it's like that"
You are paid less than your male colleague? "it's like that"
Society would never evolve then
We can point out the problem all we want but until people in the company changed their minds it's all on deaf ears .
SK is all about appearances, saving faces, visuals. That is their culture, maybe even so for alot of Asian countries.
But it's also like that everywhere in the West, it's just much more disguised. I don't think it's only a Korean problem.
Are there other groups like MMM (SK)? Certainly, but how many succeeded like MMM? So they are an outlier that got through with their skills.
I also stan these groups so I know very well that's also why I'm so sensitive on the subject I think.
You can definitely start your career in whatever you do, but the question is, would it take off? Would you get as popular as Adele? Not having the public visual interests at hands would definitely 'handicap' you. But hey, nothing is definite, maybe 10-20 years down the line you'll have a black brother singing nuna yeppeoseo-yo. Idk man.
We can point out the problem all we want but until people in the company changed their minds it's all on deaf ears .
Sorry to mix up your posts but I will answer both at the same time. Yes we will always find a company with different ideas from another for good or bad. But from a very personal point of view, I think that "consumers" also have their share of responsibilities, we all have the power to choose what we want to consume and the goal of companies is precisely to adapt to this will to make profit.
I don’t think it’s a blocker they just get PS
Display MoreHonestly?
The "wokeness" a lot of it is performative. Lets be real everyone has their own preferences, but are afraid that if they voice them out they will get cancelled
You and I are also biased, in our everyday lives
For example, if you are to choose between 2 empty seats, of which both are literally the same. The only difference is the people sitting beside that seat. Everything comes into play, race/gender/looks/body, it is undeniable that you have an innate bias and tendency to gravitate to your own preference.
Same for workplace, or whatever industry. A lot of "progressive ideas" are just ...... performative to me when deep down everyone still has their own preferences.
Yep. We have rich folks screaming about climate change taking 20 hour flights on private jets that consume more fuel in one flight than a family does in a year on their car. Rich Hollywood types living in gated communities with armed security screaming about too many guns and not enough rights for criminals. Folks screaming about racism when they wouldnt let a single POC anywhere near their homes or livelihoods or finances (except as servants) or would scream bloody murder if one of their kids wanted to marry one.
So much of it is performative.
And before anyone yells at me, i feel the same way about right wing crazies as well. Folks who scream about abortion being murder but dont give a RATS ASS about the unwanted children after they're born, imagine if they were forced to pay for the orphanages and foster care for every unwanted child, or if they were forced to take care of them and pay for them themselves, they would probably shut up right quick lol.
The problem is that while the elites spouting these ideologies, the rest of us either get infected with them or have to deal with the consequences.
Display Morekillingtime1934 xx-jenn-xx Minazuki ABoredStan icyruios
To stay on the same subject but a little different. How would you explain that these visual criteria are more and more important all over the world while on the contrary more progressive ideas (mostly from USA) about gender, skin color ... are also progressing more and more.
For example, even in the West we have had similar cases in the last 20 years, the singer Adele, for example, had been greatly criticized at her beginnings for her appearance despite her talent.
When we look at the artists of the 60s/70s, some were very beautiful but many were also very far from the standards of beauty and yet that did not prevent them from starting a career.
I think Icy's remark was on point
for that you would need some top agency
or at least agency which ain't shy to invest
I think there are many those who will neglect things even such as CA/racism lessons
and there are still some of those old date CEO's who will say things like: "don't eat" or "you are eating way too much"
like even Eunbi recently said in the past she sliced apple and survived days eating just a slice of an apple
like I said it's changing for the better, the point is to find that sweet spot, between overworking and doing nothing
this is why I'm sometimes afraid about Le Sserafim, you just can't expect them to have abs all the time, everyone deserves off season, regeneration, etc.
And yet it is also these large agencies that recruit purely on visual criteria 
And yet it is also these large agencies that recruit purely on visual criteria
well I don't know if you are checking HYBE's R U Next
but yeah you are right, at least for me 1/3 of all trainees easily could be a visual member
which means they ain't just pretty girls, they are way above that level
We are talking about a situation where the male or female person is very talented but unfortunately is judged to have an unpleasant physique and is rejected by the company on this aspect.
Do you think it's something normal because idols are a profession exposed to the public or do you think that if the skills are excellent the person should still be able to debut?
No it's not fair or right, but seeing how harsh the public can be in their critiques of those selected pretty idols who do get to debut anyway, I second guess what's better.
Display MoreBut isn't this precisely a reason to point the problem and want to change things? Because if we simply apply the logic of "it's like that" then for the other causes also we can say that.
Racism ? "it's like that"
Homophobia ? "it's like that"
You are paid less than your male colleague? "it's like that"
Society would never evolve then
I agree, bit pretty privilege is a thing and from studies, seems inborn even in children. We're born flawed, overcoming is easier said than done. You're right though, it's not that we should not try.
Didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth.
humans are attracted to pretty things kpop and other entertaintment industries know this so of course they will go with an attractive human being because they know people with be drawn to that person.
Do I believe this is good? to create revenue/money it is because like I said there is a higher percent that a good looking idol/group will become popular, over another individual that is not attractive per beauty standards. Personally though I would love for individuals who don't fit in to beauty standards and are deemed ugly by people but are hell of talented to get recognition that they deserve, but will companies do this most likely no.
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