It really goes to show how unappealing SM is for the broader international audience that their best performing album on Spotify is by a group on hiatus for the four years and has no clout or promo what so ever eye-

sm are too manufactured even by kpop standards 💀 the whole stint with superm... they're never living that down

Aespa's mini album streams match with EXO's full album streams. This proves Aespa has much more "international appeal" than EXO, which was once considered a top 3-4 group internationally until the pandemic. Not that bad at all.

I think NCT Dream's Hello Future album performed very decently in spotify. I don't know for sure but i suspect it was probably the best performing album in the platform by SM ever. But unfortunately SM ruined their streak with the choice of next singles (Glitch Mode and Beatbox) and it slowed their hype down a lot.

that's the problem with SM, the lack of consistency and inexplicable choice of leading singles. there is just too much attention an album can get with the single is unappealing to general audiences.

Quote from chounim

I think NCT Dream's Hello Future album performed very decently in spotify. I don't know for sure but i suspect it was probably the best performing album in the platform by SM ever. But unfortunately SM ruined their streak with the choice of next singles (Glitch Mode and Beatbox) and it slowed their hype down a lot.

that's the problem with SM, the lack of consistency and inexplicable choice of leading singles. there is just too much attention an album can get with the single is unappealing to general audiences.

The best performing SM album on Spotify is Don't Mess Up My Tempo, specifically its repackaged version

While SM title tracks choice sucks indeed, I believe the main culprit is their image. It's VERY offputting for casual listeners to tune into the group without being invested as fans. Groups like Les Serafim or TxT have a very "cool" image so people won't avoid them for being cringe

The idol with their most pop-ish image and sound is literally EXO, who is 11 years old already. And even EXO has an image that would look weird to a broader audience with the whole EXO Planet and superpower concept. We can easily see this looking at how their title tracks centered around this concept aren't nearly as well received as their more "easy" pop songs.

Worths nothing SM is blatantly refused to debut new groups for ages. NCT is 7 years old already, there was no need for such big gap between NCT and a brand new group. 4th gen kpop fans, mostly gen Z, won't connect with SM idols at all

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

The best performing SM album on Spotify is Don't Mess Up My Tempo, specifically its repackaged version

While SM title tracks choice sucks indeed, I believe the main culprit is their image. It's VERY offputting for casual listeners to tune into the group without being invested as fans. Groups like Les Serafim or TxT have a very "cool" image so people won't avoid them for being cringe

The idol with their most pop-ish image and sound is literally EXO, who is 11 years old already. And even EXO has an image that would look weird to a broader audience with the whole EXO Planet and superpower concept. We can easily see this looking at how their title tracks centered around this concept aren't nearly as well received as their more "easy" pop songs.

Worths nothing SM is blatantly refused to debut new groups for ages. NCT is 7 years old already, there was no need for such big gap between NCT and a brand new group. 4th gen kpop fans, mostly gen Z, won't connect with SM idols at all

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I just learned that teasers for the new boy group will be released on Red Velvet's anniversary

The new boy group will probably be successful.

Quote from Selynn

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The new boy group will probably be successful.

Maybe, I'm 50-50. A brand new SM Bg would be a huge deal normally

However, this group will inherit a few NCT members as well as SM rookies and will debut with no survival show pre-support. This will create a strange climate where NCT members have an established fandom, whereas the new members don't, which can lead to internal fights and dissonance. Moreover, kpop fans are obsessed with freshness, and having NCT members on a new group is the opposite of being fresh

Besides, I have no proper evidence, but my guts are SCREAMING that this group is going to keep NCT 127 image and sound, which is not exactly promising

I believe they will have big debut sales on debut (NCT fandom) plus a lot of casual listeners (SM new boygroup in ages), but will have trouble growing much beyond that for a couple of years and will be floating until they somehow pull a "Kick It" for themselves

I'm glad EXO is having such a good comeback, it's what they deserve

Quote from kingkook

Aespa's mini album streams match with EXO's full album streams. This proves Aespa has much more "international appeal" than EXO, which was once considered a top 3-4 group internationally until the pandemic. Not that bad at all.

Hum I don’t think exo promoted their b-sides on music shows. Exo is a decade old group so…I don’t think it makes aespa look better.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

Maybe, I'm 50-50. A brand new SM Bg would be a huge deal normally

However, this group will inherit a few NCT members as well as SM rookies and will debut with no survival show pre-support. This will create a strange climate where NCT members have an established fandom, whereas the new members don't, which can lead to internal fights and dissonance. Moreover, kpop fans are obsessed with freshness, and having NCT members on a new group is the opposite of being fresh

Besides, I have no proper evidence, but my guts are SCREAMING that this group is going to keep NCT 127 image and sound, which is not exactly promising

I believe they will have big debut sales on debut (NCT fandom) plus a lot of casual listeners (SM new boygroup in ages), but will have trouble growing much beyond that for a couple of years and will be floating until they somehow pull a "Kick It" for themselves

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They have Nct members, but maybe their images will be completely different. For example, Le Sserafim's image different from than Izone's. Although they have 2 Izone members, they have a completely different concept and image. Sm is thinking of something different about the new groups when they debut at least. We don't know if their images will be the same because they have Nct members. My guts are saying that they will make pop and rnb music. Sm makes enough experimental music in all his bands. This time Sm will follow the trend, if he is smart.

Quote from ISaidISaid

In the end imo it’s going to come down to the music. 😭

If that was the case, their non-title tracks would go viral on tik tok or something because not every SM song has Kwangya sound. TxT has tinnitus which is soon going to be bigger than any NCT title track. Enhypen, Treasure, and even Stray Kids have songs that went viral almost organically, the company doesn't need to "choose" them. NCT started the edge-dark sound trend before any other group, so why do they perform so much worse comparatively?

Not even when SM step down from Kwangya sound they have hits. Is Aespa Spicy smashing? Candy by NCT Dream? Cream Soda? Nope, none of them are making weaves outside the markets SM is already big i.e. east Asia

SM has no presence among 4th gen stans, their image is not likable. Kpop is an image-oriented industry trough and trough. Visuals, concepts, and "freshness" is what sells groups. You have Nmixx releasing the weirdest debut song EVER with O.O and still getting traction because they have the JYP brand on it

SM brand is close to worthless outside east Asia, that's their number 1 weakness atm. They need to rebuild their brand from scratch and so far they are falling hard to do it

Quote from ISaidISaid

Icaro none of that is broadly appealing music sorry to say 😭

Well, I agree none of those are NewJeans, Cupid, Antifragile, or Love Dive level, but it's not like Super, S-Class, O.O, Unforgiven, Bite Me, etc were all exactly "broadly appealing", yet they all perform significantly better than SM title tracks

Hybe-JYP groups (and Blackpink) simply have much bigger audiences than SM idols outside Asia, it's a combination of both bigger fandoms and more presence on social media

I dont know what you are all discussing about but SM should stop treating EXO like it's too late for them instead of trying to find success only with their new groups Despite what SM is thinking yeah EXO has still appeal

One more thing I love EXO's music direction I wouldn't change it to anything I just want more exposure for them

Red Velvet is wasted too imo. But too pity SM never thought big for them

Quote from ISaidISaid

I do blv 17 and SKZ music is more appealing than NCT tho. Doesn’t appeal to me Kek but I can understand why.

Board appeal including muggles : New Jeans, Blackpink or whomever

Broad appeal among kpop fans : 17, SKZ, TXT

I don't think S-Class, Super and Drop the Mic are more appealing than ISTJ or Candy in any sense

Sure, those groups have much more likable title tracks themselves like Maniac, Drunk-Dazed and Hot but still even when they release songs everybody dislikes they still have more traction. At this point, people just don't like SM groups and won't listen to them, period.

Quote from ISaidISaid

That’s their flagship group matching with exo is an embarrassment for them I thought that was understood lol.

Yeah EXO totally isn't SM's flagship group. Imagine downplaying your own faves as nugus.

Quote from killthisfenty

Hum I don’t think exo promoted their b-sides on music shows. Exo is a decade old group so…I don’t think it makes aespa look better.

It does in the sense that they are doing the best in SM. Obviously not compared to other top 4th ggs but you can't really expect much when none of their seniors are better than them.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

Well, I agree none of those are NewJeans, Cupid, Antifragile, or Love Dive level, but it's not like Super, S-Class, O.O, Unforgiven, Bite Me, etc were all exactly "broadly appealing", yet they all perform significantly better than SM title tracks

Hybe-JYP groups (and Blackpink) simply have much bigger audiences than SM idols outside Asia, it's a combination of both bigger fandoms and more presence on social media

Did O.O really crush it internationally compared to EXO and aespa's title tracks?

Quote from ISaidISaid

I hope this is a joke? Ofc they’re not? They’re in military enlistment

Flagship means currently active and promoted group 😭 nothing else 😭 EXO were flagship till 2018.

So you mean they don't have a fandom anymore since enlistment? Then where did those 1.5 million+ sales come from? Please be serious. They are literally the top 3 bg from 3rd gen.

Quote from Roger-Kevin

Did O.O really crush it internationally compared to EXO and aespa's title tracks?

I don't think we have a proper baseline for EXO as they release schedule is... thin. But it's on track to have more streams than every EXO title track minus Love Shot

It did better than any Aespa title track except Next Level and Black Mamba

Although, Nmixx popularity is quickly degrading so I can see both Aespa and EXO outliving Nmixx in few years if they keep tanking with their next releases

Quote from ISaidISaid

😭😭😭

Don’t be stupid. What you’re talking about has nothing to do with what I said.

Aespa doing as much as an enlisted group that didn’t promote for four years instead of their peers is an embarrassment for them. No two ways about it. You trying to turn this one on me saying I’m downplaying EXO may help you feel better about aespa so you do whatever you want. But stop wasting my time.

Then all your statements conclude with the very thought that every SM group has no international appeal including EXO.

I'm sorry but I don't share the same view. I don't base international appeal on spotify streams and I don't consider only the west as the international audience, because this is exactly what I'm getting from this thread.

Quote from kingkook

So you mean they don't have a fandom anymore since enlistment? Then where did those 1.5 million+ sales come from? Please be serious. They are literally the top 3 bg from 3rd gen.

EXO is not SM flagship group for a good 5 years now. Just like TVXQ was not a flagship group when Red Velvet released Red Flavour. They are basically a legacy act at this point. Their streams and listeners come mostly from very old catalog. A legacy act having the highest debut on SM is concerning. Even worse when the newer groups have arguably bigger and more active fandoms.

NCT was going through a consistent run internationally during Kick It > Make A Wish > Hot Sauce.

I think something went wrong there during Sticker and tanished their reputation within the community. Now people don't even give chances to begin with.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

EXO is not SM flagship group for a good 5 years now. Just like TVXQ was not a flagship group when Red Velvet released Red Flavour. They are basically a legacy act at this point. Their streams and listeners come mostly from very old catalog. A legacy act having the highest debut on SM is concerning. Even worse when the newer groups have arguably bigger and more active fandoms.

BGs are known for having bigger and dedicated fandoms than GGs in general.

And older groups have bigger fandoms than newer groups. Seventeen and Enhypen are a good example.

I also think the legacy act tag doesn't concern much for 3rd gen groups in 4th gen compared to 2nd gen groups in 3rd gen. Casual fans are willing to listen to 3rd gen as much as a 4th gen group if they like the song.

I mean didn't Kai's solo title track do well if we aren't comparing it with BTS - BP solo releases?

I just wanted to say in overall to OP that they shouldn't expect Aespa to have high streams when none of the other groups have high streams either. That's where the fault lies on the company's promotions, not the group's capacity to grow big.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

I don't think we have a proper baseline for EXO as they release schedule is... thin. But it's on track to have more streams than every EXO title track minus Love Shot

It did better than any Aespa title track except Next Level and Black Mamba

Although, Nmixx popularity is quickly degrading so I can see both Aespa and EXO outliving Nmixx in few years if they keep tanking with their next releases

Where are these streams happening, Savage, Illusion and their 2023 stuff's daily streams are still higher then it on Spotify.

Quote from kingkook

And older groups have bigger fandoms than newer groups. Seventeen and Enhypen are a good example.

I don't necessarily agree here. Newer groups are promoting for global audiences, while most of 3rd generation groups only had east Asia. Sure Seventeen has many times bigger fandom than Enhypen, but only in the markets where the doors were always open for them I.e. Korea, Japan and China. Among those 3 only Japan is relevant for the subject of this thread (Spotify)

That's how despite selling much more Seventeec's Super couldn't pull more streams than Bite Me

Being a legacy actbis as much a concern now as it ever was. We can't mix together 3rd Gen acts who still have regular releases like Twice and Seventeen with groups that have long hiatus like Winner or Mamamoo. Being a legacy act is not only about being old, but also about having a common good release schedule

The point of OP is to show how SM groups are severely underperforming on Spotify

And why shouldn't Aespa be the highest streams (by far)? They are a 4th generation girlgroup and the biggest name in SM right now. Looking at the numbers of their peers EXO shouldn't have to stand a chance against them (just like Aespa can easily destroy them on k-charts), yet here we are.