Do you find it odd supposed million sellers are playing bingo halls and taking months to sell them out? Where are the fans at?

    Like browsing TicketMaster I'm seeing groups selling a million of albums each comeback playing theaters and bingo halls and struggling to sell them out. I wont mention names but these groups are exploding in sales(even though theirs views, SNS interactions and streams aren't going up) and now tourings on the table they ain't even playing arena's...nevermind domes and stadiums.


    What's up...I mean if fans are buying these albums why ain't they buying no concert tickets and leaving ya'll playing convention centers and tiny venues?

    Quote from ISaidISaid

    Touring in China is still not allowed so isn’t this a moot question to ask


    60619b148b25d76d88138e9fb9a750ba.gif


    A lot of kpop sales is from China.



    Ding ding ding.


    I would also add Japan now, several groups are making big inroads there, even charting top 10 in their song charts. Also, i feel like Kpop is still growing noticeably in SEA where we see big concert numbers, plus not all of SEA is poor and broke as is the common Kpop "truism" :rolleyes: , some can obviously afford to buy and bulk buy albums.

    Not odd, expected. Because every company is doing the damn most out gimmicking each other's album sales which are no longer impressive or can be taken at face value for fandom size.


    When BTS was dragged for doing the maximum four versions and seven photocards (tragic compared to now :skull:) they were matching their sales with concertgoers.


    Love Yourself era being the best ratio

    LY: Answer had 2.1M albums sold

    LY tour concluded with 2M attendees


    Hell even WINGS in 2016

    The album had close to 750K albums sold

    The tour had close to 600K attendees


    MOTS: 7 was also on its path to match its tour attendees w/its stadium world tour too. An estimated 3.5M-4M attendees with the countries we know now that they were going to tour (many in uncharted territories like India and Africa)


    Now nothing no longer makes sense anymore.

    My faves don't sell millions, and yes they play in bingo halls.

    Quote from Aeicy

    why so scared of mentioning names

    People will ignore the core point of irregular sales with the seeming absence of growth in other areas. even regression in some cases, and become defensive and turn the conversation into something it doesn't need to be.

    Quote from flowerteapetal

    I find it more odd that some Hot 100 number 1 artists from the USA struggle to sell tickets.


    Sales is way more important to an artist than radioplay.

    That too. Can be streamed 40M times but can't sell out 3K concert halls :pepewhat:


    The only one matching album sales and concertgoers is Taylor Swift.

    Quote from TheBotter

    People will ignore the core point of irregular sales with the seeming absence of growth in other areas. even regression in some cases, and become defensive and turn the conversation into something it doesn't need to be.

    Is it a girl group? ;judgingpepe:

    Quote from bubble-head

    Not all artists are good performers.

    Ed Sheeran is not WBK but he just did a 360-degree 80K+ Metlife crowd. So that point is flawed. Even if he does all the playlisting/payola/heating in the world he can still back it up with tangible demand.

    Quote from flowerteapetal

    I find it more odd that some Hot 100 number 1 artists from the USA struggle to sell tickets.


    Sales is way more important to an artist than radioplay.

    I don't. That's not a mystery or even up for debate. It's well known many artist from big labels are boosted from massive paid playlisting and radio deals. Combine this with cases like say Doja Cat or w/e where you can very easily drop an ear worm that people will happily stream, I mean most of us are already paying for a streaming service so that isn't costing us anything...that isn't the same as hearing on song you might like and spending 15 dollars on an album or even 80-150 on a concert ticket for that very same artist.


    But in Kpop I'm not talking about a group that sells 1m albums and has big arena tours but not much commercial success. That makes sense. They are a fandom supported group and numbers back that up. I think that's sensible and adds up.


    what I'm talking about is several groups are now selling 1+ million but much of their stats are staying the same and even going down and they are having trouble selling tickets for small venues, this even goes against the insinuation of you comment. Because yes sales are more important, but my quiz is why all of a sudden those same fans willing to spend hundreds on albums aren't willing to do so on concert tickets?

    Quote from Jasmine_Waters

    Is it a girl group? ;judgingpepe:

    Ed Sheeran is not WBK but he just did a 360-degree 80K+ Metlife crowd. So that point is flawed. Even if he does all the playlisting/payola/heating in the world he can still back it up with tangible demand.

    It's not a single group and this modern phenomenon isn't just 1 group or just a single company. I feel like recently a lot of groups are all of a sudden doubling, tripling sales even but tours, streams, views, engagements aren't moving almost at all.


    Again it doesn't really matter what group it is, I'm sure we've all noticed a suspicious sales pattern recently and it's often explained as "well Kpop is bigger internationally now", a true statement, but wouldn't that also translate to all metric, especially touring?

    Quote from TheBotter

    I don't. That's not a mystery or even up for debate. It's well known many artist from big labels are boosted from massive paid playlisting and radio deals. Combine this with cases like say Doja Cat or w/e where you can very easily drop an ear worm that people will happily stream, I mean most of us are already paying for a streaming service so that isn't costing us anything...that isn't the same as hearing on song you might like and spending 15 dollars on an album or even 80-150 on a concert ticket for that very same artist.


    But in Kpop I'm not talking about a group that sells 1m albums and has big arena tours but not much commercial success. That makes sense. They are a fandom supported group and numbers back that up. I think that's sensible and adds up.


    what I'm talking about is several groups are now selling 1+ million but much of their stats are staying the same and even going down and they are having trouble selling tickets for small venues, this even goes against the insinuation of you comment. Because yes sales are more important, but my quiz is why all of a sudden those same fans willing to spend hundreds on albums aren't willing to do so on concert tickets?

    basically your whole essay was to allude to the logical conclusion of companies possibly doing sajaegi to boost sales numbers, is that it? :pepe-notes:

    Quote from killthisfenty

    Western music and K-pop are two differently World.

    Having a number one doesn’t guarantee a big fanbase there.

    Even old groups which doesn’t have hits since World War Two sell out stadiums dates

    Exactly this, when was the last time Metallica had a number 1 or The Boss? Yet both do massive tours, while say Miley with her very recent chart topper has struggled to sell out small venue even in the US in the past.

    It's hard to match touring and sales, cause usually groups go where their agency want them to go or where they can go, not everywhere they have huge demand.


    I will use aespa as an example, cause they are touring right now. They just sold 2M, but +1,1+1,2M alone is from China. A country they can't tour not matter how big they are.


    They are touring in small venues in US despite being million sellers. But they sold like 40k first week on US and most likely will sell more than 40k (i suppose) tickets there, so you can't say It's not matching, just because It's not matching their overall sales.

    Quote from Minazuki

    It's hard to match touring and sales, cause usually groups go where their agency want them to go or where they can go, not everywhere they have huge demand.


    I will use aespa as an example, cause they are touring right now. They just sold 2M, but +1,1+1,2M alone is from China. A country they can't tour not matter how big they are.


    They are touring in small venues in US despite being million sellers. But they sold like 40k first week on US and most likely will sell more than 40k (i suppose) tickets there, so you can't say It's not matching, just because It's not matching their overall sales.

    Well we see a lot of groups selling well in China, in fact a huge dump of sales goes to China every year and reallyy only a few groups like big Bang and BlackPink have ever had mainstream success in that country in a way yet we're seeing their numbers matched or beaten by groups that haven't ever had a lot of chart success in that country.


    A lot of groups, not Aespa specifically, could also tour China territories but skip it. Look at BP toured Taiwan and Hong Kong recently and did big numbers. Several Chinese territories that are still bookable have arena's from 5k up to 40+ k yet seemingly groups are skipping these.

    Not really. We all know it's mostly mass buying and not just that but companies artificially inflating with ridiculously low prices and amount of versions. Add to that many groups only have fans in a particular country/es and they will struggle to sell tickets

    Quote from Jasmine_Waters

    Is she even an album seller? :skull:

    I didn't see the part about Ed, sorry missed it. This is like the old saying all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs. You can do massive payola and still have organic success and a huge fanbase that's as true as the opposite is. Same for Kpop several groups have fantastic sales but tours that, imho, match up fairly well.


    I feel BTS, BlackPink, Twice, etc all match up well across their current numbers. I feel 17 does too, they make up the majority of their sales in EA and have a noticeably huge fandom in Japan, China and Korea. Several other groups too match up perfectly well but others just don't make sense at all..

    Quote from Lamttya

    Not really. We all know it's mostly mass buying and not just that but companies artificially inflating with ridiculously low prices and amount of versions. Add to that many groups only have fans in a particular country/es and they will struggle to sell tickets

    I can see that is a booster for some of the sales, sure. We all see the tactics of selling albums in bulk to group orders for bottom dollar prices, hundreds of PC's, digipacks, etc but it's a stretch too far for me to assume these have fans who are willing to buy what would have to be hundreds, if not thousands, of copies each to make those numbers work.


    Also these fans aren't in the US, EU, Latam, SEA..? Hell some of these groups struggle in Korea and Japan...like...it's a stretch for me.

    Quote from TheBotter

    Well we see a lot of groups selling well in China, in fact a huge dump of sales goes to China every year and reallyy only a few groups like big Bang and BlackPink have ever had mainstream success in that country in a way yet we're seeing their numbers matched or beaten by groups that haven't ever had a lot of chart success in that country.


    A lot of groups, not Aespa specifically, could also tour China territories but skip it. Look at BP toured Taiwan and Hong Kong recently and did big numbers. Several Chinese territories that are still bookable have arena's from 5k up to 40+ k yet seemingly groups are skipping these.

    EXO is mainstream is China


    Nevertheless, China has 1.5 billion people. It's more that all other big markets for kpop combined: Japan, Korea, SEA and USA. A group selling much more in China than elsewhere is not far-fetched, even if their are nugu for Chinese GP


    The reason for the sudden increase in Chinese sales has a root on survival shows and Chinese groups taking over in the last few years. Eventually their popularity started to reflect on kpop as well, but those acts are all fandom driven with very little general public support

    Quote from TheBotter

    Well we see a lot of groups selling well in China, in fact a huge dump of sales goes to China every year and reallyy only a few groups like big Bang and BlackPink have ever had mainstream success in that country in a way yet we're seeing their numbers matched or beaten by groups that haven't ever had a lot of chart success in that country.


    A lot of groups, not Aespa specifically, could also tour China territories but skip it. Look at BP toured Taiwan and Hong Kong recently and did big numbers. Several Chinese territories that are still bookable have arena's from 5k up to 40+ k yet seemingly groups are skipping these.

    Judging charting success in China is kinda complicated, cause It depends a lot on availability. And a lot of acts aren't on some streaming plataforms or/and their work can't be bought digitally. Not that I disagree with you that a lot of groups - If not most - who sell well don't have a mainstream success similar or on par to groups like BLACKPINK and depends a lot on bars' bulk buying/non-shipping back. But we still don't know how far they can go in terms of recognition due to said restrition.


    About the touring, as I said, not always they can go where they have demand. And It's not only due to political restritions, but also logistic, because an agency is afraid of taking risk, because a producer and the agency can't agree on the same terms, because most K-pop acts aren't western acts who can dedicate 1-2 years to touring, since they have an extensive schedule and multiple comebacks, promotions and rehearsals and recordings to fill in a whole year, so they most likely will go to the same touring route doing a few safe dates.

    Quote from whig

    basically your whole essay was to allude to the logical conclusion of companies possibly doing sajaegi to boost sales numbers, is that it? :pepe-notes:

    Well if for 1st week sales, 99% of the industry sell most of their albums on day 1, and a particular group sell say 60% of their albums instead spread out on days 2 to 7, mmmmmm LMAO.

    Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

    There is a specific group I have such opinions about where their sales comes from


    I have a theory about their sales, but I need to see them to comeback again to either confirm my theory or just scratch it from my mind

    Drop the name please! I love to crowd watch and theorise I haven't had a good group to do that with in a while.

    Quote from TheBotter

    I wonder how long it will take for you to be banned again.


    No and yes, would you have other explanations?

    reminds me of

    ba2b1644dba19579268b8d3dc66d99f609c390db3fcd2290b25a295402bf9554_1.jpg


    Lol like bruh imagine caring about licking boots for a posse dedicated to catering to every whims of a soft manchild with no backbone whatsoever 😂


    And I don’t care about this discussion or coming up with any explanation, i was just clarifying what i read in simpler terms, that’s all, no need to get all defensive :pepe-notes:

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