NewJeans/Ive are two least talented 4th gen groups yet most successful. Is it unfair?

free market. they just need better stuff to sell the public

it have been proven many time that talent have nothing to do with popularity like when you play Newjeans/IVE music on Spotify/Apple Music/YouTube do you care about them being talented? No. You only care about whether the song is good or not because good music is what make digital high not the talent.

Talent is just 1 of the way to attract fans.

who say IVE and Newjeans are less talented ?

another generalization (top) visual means no talent or lesser talent
common generalizations used by fangirls against visual idol/groups

no it fair and they deserve the success

the formula for KPOP success
top visual + great discography

Is it fair that britney spears is more popular than christina aguilera despite being a worse singer? If you never asked yourself that question about previous artists then now you’re just looking dumb looking for baits for dumb threads lol

Quote from Whi

Is it fair that britney spears is more popular than christina aguilera despite being a worse singer? If you never asked yourself that question about previous artists then now you’re just looking dumb looking for baits for dumb threads lol

It is unfair that you had more logical reasoning than op

Please have mercy on them

it matters not how many hours you put into your craft

any more than it matters who sells it

and who your plastic surgeon is

- william shakepeare

Quote from icyruios

This is such a good thread for me to drag JLo I can drag her for 10 pages

lol but the thing is i still think mariah carey is more well known than jlo and those 2 were kinda rivals back in the day so this is one of those rare cases where talents actually won i feel

Quote from icyruios

I mean, it's not to compare her to Mariah, because Mariah is on a separate tier there is no competition JLo is not her rival.

As the great Mariah once said, "Singing is first and foremost a god given talent. It is something I'm grateful for. Her thing is something different"

What I wanna do is drag her non singing ass vs every other artist that didn't make it big, and drag her for stealing vocals from multiple singers back in the 90s

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lmao mariah’s drags are always iconic we love a shady kween

And yeah i see what you mean about jlo vs other lesser known artists in the 2000s bc her fame was definitely bigger than some other more talented singers out there

it's never about talent, but about music. Personally I would never put the songs NMIXX has right now on my playlist. But I do have songs from NJ and IVE on my playlist.

Just get a better song/concept and marketing team if you think that it's unfair.

maybe the ✨talented✨ groups should stop putting out shitty music

what's the unfair

just put out good music

You listen to what you Like

and I will listen to what I like

and some other person will listen to what they like

If more people gravitate towards one thing over another, I don't think you can define that as being unfair

talent is never a true indicator of success

that notwithstanding what one person considers talent another might not

Newjeans untalented? Not everything is about hitting whitney Houston level of high notes. These girls can sing and are improving their lives day by day. Have stage presence. I've have some good members as well.

For all sm fans overyhyping those aespa girls, they have zero stage presence when it comes to live. But this is old age arrogance of than company fans

No it's not. If you think kpop as fashion, then these girls are just working with better stylists(creative producers) and their visuals certainly help as well just like they do with models. It's all fair.

This dance is like sweeping the floor

I remember these threads for Twice and BP lmao

4th gen has truly begun

Would now be a bad time to remind everyone that they can still stan Mamamoo if suddenly talent is all that matters?

Quote from icyruios

Lets get the ball rolling who is a better dancer Momo or Lisa

''WhOs the beTtEer VoCaLiSt'' and it's just stans arguing their fav

are you ready for the most deja vu of your life?

Being a quality group is never JUST about talent or beauty. It's about star factor and a good balance of all of these elements.

And being succesfull has a lot to do with the music.

For example as pop singers Hani, Dani, Hearin and even Hyien are actually pretty talented both in singing and dancing. They all can sing and 3 or these four girls have very strong star factor and all are great beauties. That's quality.

Moreover aespa were very popular with Next level, they music was just not good enough. In the end if your music is underwelming you won't go very far.

To be successfull you need good music first and foremost with performers who have star factor, beauty (even if it's unconventional) and some level of talent.

Like they are singers in the end, if they are tone deaf they won't last long, they'll get exposed at some point.

(They can get away with mediocre singing if they are very high in beauty and star factor tho. As pop singers, they still can be succesfull. Not sure they will last tho.)

Please bring back new weaves I BEG

No

"Nothing new under the sun" KPOP is the Korean version of Disney teen stars

I'm suprised with people still saying "you NeEd GoOd MuSiC"

Rollin' is proof that it's dead wrong the song was completely ignored for a long time and suddenly became good?

Large company groups can be successful with just about anything. There are still fools who believe otherwise, and that bands like Newjeans succeed because they have something special.

Their something special is called HYBE money and connections but it's true that on this forum many live in a parallel world where they think that the armys absolutely do not stream Newjeans, have no privilege and are where they are thanks to their hard work

Quote from citron-icy

I'm suprised with people still saying "you NeEd GoOd MuSiC"

Rollin' is proof that it's dead wrong the song was completely ignored for a long time and suddenly became good?

Large company groups can be successful with just about anything. There are still fools who believe otherwise, and that bands like Newjeans succeed because they have something special.

Their something special is called HYBE money and connections but it's true that on this forum many live in a parallel world where they think that the armys absolutely do not stream Newjeans, have no privilege and are where they are thanks to their hard work

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there are so many things wrong with a post like this. The answer to a successful musical act is always the same and very simple, don’t know why people keep arguing pointlessly: promo AND music. There are acts who break out without heavy promo or in this case initial “privilege”, but they’re few and far in between and luck needs to be a factor.Promo/privilege is important and gives some acts serious advantages to succeed.

But peeps like you are also dead wrong (and annoying about it) when you completely dismissed the importance of music too. And don’t bring up your fave example nmixx bc they’re the floppiest jyp gg when it comes to digital performance/ public relevance. Yes they had huge pre-debut company stans support, but that support did not translate to digital success at all. Why? Music. No single fandom can get a song to blow up - it has to capture the attention of non fans and casuals too to hit big - that’s where the importance of music comes in. So no, large companies do not have the ability to always sell anything just bc of company stans/privilege like you claimed.

I won’t even get into the whole “bts stans are the only reason nj is successful now, nj have nothing special” argument bc that’s next level dumb. Ever since big hit expanded as a company they’ve debuted 4 new groups but only one of them has reached this level of success. Why the difference then, did the bts stans suddenly clone themselves to help nj? Or is it bc there’s sth about nj that captured so many more people than other groups? Use your brain, it’s not rocket science

Quote from Whi

there are so many things wrong with a post like this. The answer to a successful musical act is always the same and very simple, don’t know why people keep arguing pointlessly: promo AND music. There are acts who break out without heavy promo or in this case initial “privilege”, but they’re few and far in between and luck needs to be a factor.Promo/privilege is important and gives some acts serious advantages to succeed.

But peeps like you are also dead wrong (and annoying about it) when you completely dismissed the importance of music too. And don’t bring up your fave example nmixx bc they’re the floppiest jyp gg when it comes to digital performance/ public relevance. Yes they had huge pre-debut company stans support, but that support did not translate to digital success at all. Why? Music. No single fandom can get a song to blow up - it has to capture the attention of non fans and casuals too to hit big - that’s where the importance of music comes in. So no, large companies do not have the ability to always sell anything just bc of company stans/privilege like you claimed.

I won’t even get into the whole “bts stans are the only reason nj is successful now, nj have nothing special” argument bc that’s next level dumb. Ever since big hit expanded as a company they’ve debuted 4 new groups but only one of them has reached this level of success. Why the difference then, did the bts stans suddenly clone themselves to help nj? Or is it bc there’s sth about nj that captured so many more people than other groups? Use your brain, it’s not rocket science

But they do. For example you say nmixx flopped and nothing will make them get digitals with their bad songs. Than why do Kpop fans Stream o.o more than rollin? And nmixx have even one of the weaker fandoms compaired to other top company groups. Now imagine the advantage if they put out a decent song.

In the last years we had not a single hit break out without heavy industry support. Where are the artists you mentioned that can do well just with music?

Gfriend is disbanded and Momoland is dying in mld dungeon.

Quote from neigl

In the last years we had not a single hit break out without heavy industry support. Where are the artists you mentioned that can do well just with music?

Gfriend is disbanded and Momoland is dying in mld dungeon.

pls read my posts fully before replying i beg yall Literally the second sentence in my previous post said you need more than just music to succeed so your whole reply to me is irrelevant lol i never said music is the only thing you need. But its importance is not zero like some peeps love to claim either. That was my point

Kpop is never supposed to be fair.

Everyone was talking about twice vs. Bp when Red velvet was the most talented. Lol.

Quote from Whi

there are so many things wrong with a post like this. The answer to a successful musical act is always the same and very simple, don’t know why people keep arguing pointlessly: promo AND music. There are acts who break out without heavy promo or in this case initial “privilege”, but they’re few and far in between and luck needs to be a factor.Promo/privilege is important and gives some acts serious advantages to succeed.

Music is only important for group with no public attention or huge fanbase. This forum is the perfect example, there is many users here who replayed certain music several times until they liked it. For a small group they never do that. It's not the love of music, it's just brainwashing.

The most important thing and which the main characteristic of a good song is its ability to cross the ages, its "present" success does not matter. There is an example :

This is the most popular music in 1965 at Billboard Hot 100 :

This is the n°1 music of 1965 :

This is the n°3 music of 1965 :

Who'll tell me the N°1 song of 1965 is better than the n°3 right now in 2023 when one these two songs is legendary and a true masterpiece yet it wasn't the most popular at all, and there are plenty of examples like that with songs ranked even lower.

This song was n°55 in 1965 :

Nugu indeed with no music quality

Musical quality is only important for the life of a song over time. And it's unfortunately even more true today in the era of social networks where music can go viral for any reason.

Quote from Whi

And don’t bring up your fave example nmixx bc they’re the floppiest jyp gg when it comes to digital performance/ public relevance. Yes they had huge pre-debut company stans support, but that support did not translate to digital success at all.

They sell hundreds of thousands of albums and their songs have millions of listens on spotify. And all this with music that is considered rubbish by many.

Quote from Whi

Why? Music. No single fandom can get a song to blow up - it has to capture the attention of non fans and casuals too to hit big - that’s where the importance of music comes in. So no, large companies do not have the ability to always sell anything just bc of company stans/privilege like you claimed.

You greatly underestimate the importance of the 'group effect' and the sense of belonging. Yet this is where trends effects come from. A group that starts with an already acquired fanbase will create this kind of effect more easily and more often.

Quote from Whi

I won’t even get into the whole “bts stans are the only reason nj is successful now

I've never said this pls read my post once again, I'm talking about people on this forum who deny the impact of army on new hybe bands. Army are not all stanning Newjeans but to act as if there is absolutely no company stan in the armys as some on this forum do is completely stupid.

Quote from Whi

Ever since big hit expanded as a company they’ve debuted 4 new groups but only one of them has reached this level of success.

TxT, Enhypen, Newjeans, Lesserafim are all successful group pls. Let's stop acting like these groups don't have the attention of hundreds of thousands of people around the world with every new song.

A lot of 4th gen fans now try to create narratives about their group telling us how hard they worked to get here.

Sakura from Lesserafim she can say she worked hard to get there, Dreamcatcher can tell this. Newjeans and some others groups will never be able to say since they were an immediate success (yes I also include my favs from the BIG4 also in there).