I just read it on anons and I got curious to know what backs up this claim.
Do you think a group need to be notable performers to have good touring numbers?
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yeah I don't think it makes sense, I've never been to a concert but don't people go for the band and their songs not the performance
I also don't think it makes sense to say a group's discography affects touring, when you become a fan you start to like their bsides anyway, it's more important for them to have a few good titles/members to make you a fan in the first place
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Not sure if there are numbers to back up those claims but i will say that acts who are known for being good performers definitely have more people interested in their tour/going to see them..at least as far as casual listeners/fans go. Talking about acts in the west mostly though..
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Of course performance matters in a concert. If I want to hear the studio version with lip syncing and artists sitting or walking around then I can save money and just stay home. You either are a good performer or know how to put on a show, otherwise why would anyone show up. It’s why very few artists can continue to sell out tours after their hype dies down.
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yeah I don't think it makes sense, I've never been to a concert but don't people go for the band and their songs not the performance
I also don't think it makes sense to say a group's discography affects touring, when you become a fan you start to like their bsides anyway, it's more important for them to have a few good titles/members to make you a fan in the first place
There are discographies which have many songs that sound better live than on studio, but what you said It's true. That's no way to many people find out about this in the first place If they aren't into the groups' promoted tracks and the group have weak stan attractors.
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Not sure if there are numbers to back up those claims but i will say that acts who are known for being good performers definitely have more people interested in their tour/going to see them..at least as far as casual listeners/fans go. Talking about acts in the west mostly though..
I agree here that If the group is well known as good performers within K-pop community, It might attract casual listeners/non-fans to be interested in watching them live. But I wonder to which extent It happens. Are these people a relevant amount or we overestimate their presence?
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Uhh I feel like it would attract non-fans or casuals but those numbers would be a very small fraction I would feel.
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Not really. A group full of vocalists only would be amazing to see
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I agree here that If the group is well known as good performers within K-pop community, It might attract casual listeners/non-fans to be interested in watching them live. But I wonder to which extent It happens. Are these people a relevant amount or we overestimate their presence?
Well i wouldn't go to any concert if i don't like their music just because they're good performers..buuut if im just a casual fan and i know they will give one hell of a performance i'll be pretty interested to go
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Not really. A group full of vocalists only would be amazing to see
When I mean great performers, I didn't mean they need to dance. Only vocalists can be great performers as long as they are able to connect well with their audience.
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When I mean great performers, I didn't mean they need to dance. Only vocalists can be great performers as long as they are able to connect well with their audience.
Then yeah they need to be good, but all groups I know are good performers so I'd just see all of them
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I think it applies to an extent in kpop, but outside of kpop not really.
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Well i wouldn't go to any concert if i don't like their music just because they're good performers..buuut if im just a casual fan and i know they will give one hell of a performance i'll be pretty interested to go
I would only see my faves. But because concert tickets on my country are extremely expensive due to our desvalued currency
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I would only see my faves. But because concert tickets on my country are extremely expensive due to our desvalued currency
Well..for me..beggars can't be choosers
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In Kpop you only need your BIG4 privilege
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In Kpop you only need your BIG4 privilege
There are a couple of BIG4 acts that doesn't have that good touring numbers. Why aren't they benefiting from privilege?
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yeah I don't think it makes sense, I've never been to a concert but don't people go for the band and their songs not the performance
i don't know about others but i'll talk for myself.
if i like an artist i'll go to their concert but if i didn't like it i won't go again. i like their music and i'll still listen to them but why would i spend money on disappointing concerts? good performance can make meh songs better and vice versa. good performance is a must
eta: for example in kpop terms, i'd like to see le sserafim live but not ive. i don't fin ive good performers
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There are a couple of BIG4 acts that doesn't have impressive touring numbers. Why aren't they benefiting from privilege?
Wich one ?
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Wich one ?
Winner, 2AM, Red Velvet, f(x), Wonder Girls, miss A comes to my mind right now. I don't think It's fair to say something about the newer acts that don't tour yet or are still in their first.
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Winner, 2AM, Red Velvet, f(x), Wonder Girls, miss A comes to my mind right now. I don't think It's fair to say something about the newer acts that don't tour yet or are still in their first.
You really put Wonder girls and miss A ? These two groups build JYP and they did well by the standards of the time
What winner, 2am and f(x) do was also decent for their time
Red Velvet are doing good too.
It seems like you've never actually stan a group that's never had a privilege, so you don't know what it's like to see groups really struggling to do small gigs or just festivals in the worst possible conditions. Companies generally don't even have the means to reserve these concert venues.
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You really put Wonder girls and miss A ? These two groups build JYP and they did well by the standards of the time
What winner, 2am and f(x) do was also decent for their time
Red Velvet are doing good too.
It seems like you've never actually stan a group that's never had a privilege, so you don't know what it's like to see groups really struggling to do small gigs or just festivals in the worst possible conditions. Companies generally don't even have the means to reserve these concert venues.
I didn't mean they aren't strong in all metrics. All the groups I mentioned are/were very successful. I love Wonder Girls and miss A, but 2PM was the only touring force behind JYP back in second generation.
I don't know how the second paragraph is related to my point too. I'm not comparing them to acts from small agencies, but their own labelmates.
2AM, WG, miss A was a lot behind 2PM when It comes to touring. f(x) from SNSD, SHINee, Super Junior, TXVQ. Red Velvet from EXO, NCT. Winner in below iKON (at their prime) and even more far from BLACKPINK. If only Big3/4 privilege was enough to carry touring numbers, then they would all be at similar levels, but there are a lot of nuances here.
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If only Big3/4 privilege was enough to carry touring numbers, then they would all be at similar levels, but there are a lot of nuances here.
The popularity of different groups varies of course and all have different trajectories. But the privileges of the BIG 4 guarantee the possibility of doing concerts unlike the others, and for always having correct attendances.
NMIXX is an example of a huge flop for a BIG4 group this year and yet they have huge sales, fandom and will probably go on tour next year.
You also have cases like ITZY the stats tour are less impressive than those of Twice or SKZ from the same agency this year, so according to your logic they have no talent yet they are the ones who saved MAMA from disaster last year and whose solo stage was the most appreciated by GP.
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personally yes I think so
I am very picky with who I see live and thats the main metric for me
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that's not what she's implying at all... what
I know, that's why I take this group as an example. And if I take another group I'll have to fight some fandoms for 10 pages
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People go to concerts for the group/artist and their music. But I can see why people could be disappointed if they aren't satisfied with the performances they paid to watch.
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Notable as in Beyonce level I dont think so, but they need to make people have a good time for sure
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what I don't understand is the basis of it and implying she was advocating for said stance and "logic". None of her comments in this thread was said logic you described.
If i'm not wrong the subject of this thread is :
"do you think a group need to be notable performers to have good touring numbers"
My answer is No
She's not agree with me so I guess her opinion has her leaning more towards yes
but i may be wrong
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I don't think you have to be great performers, but it does help especially when it comes to non-fans and even journalist reviews of your show. With kpop though... people like to be assholes, but honestly the performance level in k-pop is fairly high and almost every group excels on that front.
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The popularity of different groups varies of course and all have different trajectories. But the privileges of the BIG 4 guarantee the possibility of doing concerts unlike the others, and for always having correct attendances.
NMIXX is an example of a huge flop for a BIG4 group this year and yet they have huge sales, fandom and will probably go on tour next year.
You also have cases like ITZY the stats tour are less impressive than those of Twice or SKZ from the same agency this year, so according to your logic they have no talent yet they are the ones who saved MAMA from disaster last year and whose solo stage was the most appreciated by GP.
What's up with your vendetta against NMIXX, cause you built a whole stage to drag them in a conversation that doesn't make sense for them to be, since they are a new group and we can't judge their touring potential. Selling well doesn't mean they will have a high touring attendance in the future, even If they go on tour. There's an abyss between buying single albums and buying a concert ticket.
And you are putting words on my mouth. I said there are nuances between the difference in labelmates' touring power that only coming from Big3 isn't enough to explain, I never said talent was one of them. And never said I agree with what I questioned on the title. So you saying that judging my logic I think ITZY are less talented performers than TWICE and Stray Kids doesn't make sense. This logic doesn't exist in the first place.
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Notable as in Beyonce level I dont think so, but they need to make people have a good time for sure
It's hard to find someone at Beyoncé level everywhere
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What's up with your vendetta against NMIXX, cause you built a whole stage to drag them in a conversation
I just take an example i've nothing against them. I took an example of a BIG4 that didn't do well right now and will still be able to tour to explain that it is thanks to this privilege of their company that they will be able to do this.
I said there are nuances between the difference in labelmates' touring power that only coming from Big3 isn't enough to explain, I never said talent was one of them.
and so what are its nuances if it has nothing to do with their talent on stage or their company?
This logic doesn't exist in the first place.
Ok so i was wrong sorry hug.gif
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I don't think you have to be great performers, but it does help especially when it comes to non-fans and even journalist reviews of your show.
For journalist and youtub creator good reviews you only need money
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I just take an example i've nothing against them. I took an example of a BIG4 that didn't do well right now and will still be able to tour to explain that it is thanks to this privilege of their company that they will be able to do this.
and so what are its nuances if it has nothing to do with their talent on stage or their company?
Ok so i was wrong sorry hug.gif
I didn't say either being from big company doesn't help, I said It isn't the only reason. If It was like that, all of them would be booking domes/stadiums/many arenas.
In my opinion, what makes an act being good at touring is having a big dedicated fanbase. Now, how this fanbase will be formed depends on the nuances of which group's trajectory, luck
and gender. First of all, being a boygroup helps. Also, some are because how they are marketed and promoted, some are because they have high exposure for their catchy releases and said music is able to transform people into hardcore fans, some are because they went viral, some are because they have huge stan attractors etc or these factors together.Being from Big3 will give you exposure to be successful, but It doesn't mean you will both have digital success and a dedicated fanbase ready to pay to see you live. Some get it all, but some fall only under one of the umbrellas.
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I think kpop in general in filled with good performers. As a whole kpop is popular and so many groups can do good cons because they are very good performers.
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The question should be what does the thing that makes a group popular?
Because popularity will always aligned with tickets sold right? (Since the more you popular, the more people that want to see you)
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The question should be what does the thing that makes a group popular?
Because popularity will always aligned with tickets sold right? (Since the more you popular, the more people that want to see you)
Different metrics point out popularity in different fields. Now what people think It's more important is always a discussed subject.
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I think just having a fandom is enough, the bigger the fandom the better u tour
Now how u get that fandom can be different for different groups...some groups known for their performance, others for their songs etc
Sometimes notable performers are not able to get a big fandom because of various reasons (good at performance but no good songs, boring personalities, bad marketing)
Sometimes singers with weak stage presence are able to get a big fandom(multiple good songs, nice marketing by the company)
Also girl groups get less investment in general so they find it difficult to get a big fandom
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