Kakao groups have the same privilege as Big 4 groups.

No. How many ever times you repeat this nonsense it won't be true. The hype just the big3/hybe name brings the kakao brand doesn't. For a fact many people don't even know some of the groups from these companies are part of kakao.

Did stayc and weeekly didn't even get 5% of the hype aespa, itzy, nmixx, le sserafim got at debut. Ive success made u think stuff that doesn't exist.

Okay

What's Big 4? is this some alternate universe where Big 4 is a thing?

If everyone has privilege, does anyone have privilege?

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

This also means we have to acknowledge the privilege that groups like Ive, StayC, Weeekly, The Boyz, Monsta X, etc have received as a benefit of being under Kakao

you had the search up the groups under kakao and you know it

I don't even know which groups are under Kaokao bro until you listed them

What you're referring to as Kakao is not the actual company but the subsidiary Kakao Entertainment, which yes, is much smaller in terms of influence and money than the traditional big Kpop labels.

It's only called Kakao Entertainment because Kakao Corp has naming rights because they own a majority stake of the company, about 60%.

It could just as easily be named 'ABC123 Entertainment.'

I mean if the 2nd largest stakeholder buys out Kakao's stake, then it could be called "Podo Asia B.V. Entertainment."

Name means very little in terms of how big a company is.

It's like Target or Walmart buying the little Mom and Pop convenience store on the corner. They bought it because they can.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

This also means we have to acknowledge the privilege that groups like Ive, StayC, Weeekly, The Boyz, Monsta X, etc have received as a benefit of being under Kakao

What privilege? These groups haven't made impact like other groups within the big 4 have yet.

Quote from Jichu

I don't even know which groups are under Kaokao bro until you listed them

They searched it up themselves lmao

nobody go around saying: yes, I'm a kakao stan, marron bleed or some shit

Quote from cherryshiii

What privilege? These groups haven't made impact like other groups within the big 4 have yet.

They do definitely have better circumstances than nugu companies but their privilege is nothing like the big 4. The fact you said there should be a big 5 instead of a big 4 is kinda strange.

This is possibly one of the dumbest hills you’ve been willing to die on lol. The entire point of the “big 3 privilege” argument comes from brand RECOGNITION, not brand size. Groups debuting under big 3 companies get attention on them right from the start bc people tune in to these companies all the time and thus are aware of at least the names of all groups debuting there, which is a “privilege” in exposure that groups from nugu companies don’t have. Literally no one is tuning in to know which group will debut under sub-labels of Kakao, in fact if you hold a quiz 10 out of 10 times people won’t be able to name a single group technically under Kakao lmao. They’ll know if you’re asking about starship groups, but asking about kakao and they’ll come up blank even tho starship is owned by kakao. This is really a clown argument on your part and that’s saying sth lmao

These groups are under labels that are under Kakao Entertainment that is under Kakao

They have about the same privilege that Billlie has from being under Mystic Story that is under SM Entertainment

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Very ironic you mentioned Billlie. Theyve actually been invited to Knowing Brothers already. And you know why? Because they're under SM, and guess what company produces Knowing Brothers...

I think the same holds true for Kakao groups. They all benefit from the privilege that Kakao grants them, whether it's better promotions, better dorms, or whatever.

Yes because Stayc were selling 5687899988 copies and 56888 PAK when they debuted

You’re so dumb it’s so funny

Quote from azhra-0110

Well I don't think there are kakao company stans but I can see where you are coming from. They might not have big4 privilege per se but won't be lacking in resources like those from nugu companies

I also think that's what BlackpinkHouse meant.

The privileges of big companies do not only come from their huge fanbases, there are also the relationships established over the years, the financial power ... There is also a lot of contempt and unfair competition for small agencies this won't happen to you if your parent company is a powerful company.

MMA 2019 is a good example, HYBE used all these privileges to give a lot of stage time to TxT who had just debuted, MMA reduced the time of groups who came from small agencies. This is also the privileges it does not only concern company stans.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Not just recognition, bruh. What about resources? Kakao has resources that a true mid tier company like Cube couldnt even dream of.

Why you keep mixing ressources with privilege and influence can be you serious sometimes

I stand corrected but the point is the same. The groups mentioned aren't even under Kakao Entertainment.

They belong to labels that are subsidiaries of a subsidiary of Kakao Corp.

Kakao owns 60% of Kakao Entertainment. Kakao Entertainment owns 60% of IST or Starship Entertainment.

So the ownership of Kakao gets more and more diluted.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Not just recognition, bruh. What about resources? Kakao has resources that a true mid tier company like Cube couldnt even dream of.

So say that instead of comparing it to privilege. Also cube when compared to all kakao acquired company would only be behind starship? I doubt weeekly, stayc and boyz company is bigger than cube

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Not just recognition, bruh. What about resources? Kakao has resources that a true mid tier company like Cube couldnt even dream of.

bruh no amount of resources can make people want to anticipate a group and even stan them right from even predebut lmao you’re really tryna tell me weeekly had 100k+ followers on Twitter or 300k+ preorders before the group even released any info about them thanks to kakao’s resources and the privilege of being under a sub label from kakao 💀🤡

I think they have some kind of privilege, but not anywhere close to big3/4.

then it raises an interesting question whether does a sublabel or a subsidiary get the credibility or the influence of the parent label?

Bphouse keeps selling this nonsense.

Kakao, CJENM, Naver etc are indeed behemoths, but their primary business is not running idol groups.

They own a bunch of labels like they own real estate, but aren't involved in actual running of the business, as do SM/YG/JYP/HYBE etc.

They have built the relationship networks, that operate any industry.

Mere money will not be enough as an investment.

For one, they have to build and debut few groups to success in-house, rather than buying established groups.

They might, but they don't seem to be interested in that core aspect.

And no, none of Kakao owned subsidiary built groups get the privileges, exposure given the Big 4.

The only advantage they have over smaller agencies, is that with deeper pockets, they have a long rope when it comes to failure.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

IU

Ive

StayC

Monsta X

Apink

Victon

Weeekly

The Boyz

You'all are telling me this roster isnt one of the top 5 labels in Kpop?

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Technically speaking, IU is no longer under the Kakao label. She is under the label of Edam, where Kakao has a 40% stake but she has the majority of shares.

But even before that she didn't really get involved upon the management of other acts under Kakao.

There is an important distinction to be made. Kpop companies aren't just record labels, but they are also publishers and marketing agencies. They are responsible for promotion and branding, and also making contracts, CF deals, endorsement, social media, TV contracts and so on

Kakao in other hand is just a publisher, their work is related to copyright, releasing schedule, distribution and so on. They aren't responsible for the groups agency, for this any subsidiary has their own budget to promotion. Kakao in this sense is a major label, while the others are the minors, but ultimately all groups management are under the minor's responsibility, while the major's are for legal, logistic and distribution

This is the standard for music industry, with Big3+Hybe being the exception because they are big enough to provide the majority services related with idols activities

As Kakao is a major and their business stretches much further than idol industry it's not common for public associated Kakao with any group, so their groups aren't really attached tothem. This can change if they actually invest in a music brand like Mnet did, but alas, they don't seem inclined. They are just taking their shares from album and streams revenues and calling it a day

If you want a more clear and easy example OP

Think about AT&T, big brand right? They bought HBO and Warner

Wil anybody gives a fuck if AT&T name appear in a trailer for a movie? Or if they released a stream service called AT&T Max?

Nope, they used their already famous brands for this, because the mindshare for AT&T isn't related to movies or series

Kakao is similar, they have no brand in idol industry even though they are ultra famous in Korea because of their mobile services. You will have a much easier time marketing a new Starship group than a new Kakao group

Absolutely true. Saying stayc is from a small company is same as saying enhyphen is from a small company. Stayc is not some group that started from the bottom like dreamcatcher and mamamoo. They have all the backing of money and connections. Which is a good thing because these things are needed to succeed in kpop.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

If you want a more clear and easy example OP

Think about AT&T, big brand right? They bought HBO and Warner

Wil anybody gives a fuck if AT&T name appear in a trailer for a movie? Or if they released a stream service called AT&T Max?

Nope, they used their already famous brands for this, because the mindshare for AT&T isn't related to movies or series

Kakao is similar, they have no brand in idol industry even though they are ultra famous in Korea because of their mobile services. You will have a much easier time marketing a new Starship group than a new Kakao group

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great example

kakao (at&t, etc.) provides their subsidiaries with sizable resources

(including financing at holdco at terms their subs cannot get)

independents don't have such support

kakao related groups can match the resources and network of the big 4

but they do not have their brand power and fanbase

(starship is getting closer)

kakao, naver, cj, etc. got into the entertainment biz to feed them content for their other platforms and diversify their businesses

they serve broader strategic functions

sub labels will get as much support as they need if that strategic significance remains

(for instance, content remains king in the streaming wars now, and kakao, at&t, etc. are spending lots of money to get/make it)

Yes lets ask FIESTAR and HISTORY if they benefitted from that sweet big 5 privilege. When people talk about Big 4 privilege they aren't talking about how much money the company has they are talking about the fact that debuting from that company guarantees you success.

Do you think if NMIXX debuted under IST entertainment they would sell 400k copies of their debut album? Or that they would be able to release O.O and still have hordes of fans waiting for their next comeback because of their "vocals."