Did it REALLY matter that Post-IOI groups had big lineups?

I remember researching this awhile back. I dont think any of these Post Produce groups succeeded. Even the soloists, i saw a couple like Woodz and some other dude had great initial sales but went on a big nosedive over the subsequent releases. I dont know if any of them are selling close to 100k on Gaon anymore, except for Daniel who is the lone exception.

As for GG and female soloists, all of them i think flopped except for Chungha and even she is hit or miss digitally and her album sales are really bad. Somi broke through and we have to see her album sales to figure out how big her fanbase is.

Eunbi has already outsold Chungha on Hanteo with her debut album after two weeks, i think she is already the most successful post Produce female soloist with 46k on Hanteo and probably 60k on Gaon.

biggest problem with post ioi groups are that their companies sucked simple as that weki meki could have been amazing if promoted correctly and pristin would have been great under any company not named pledis . Dia didnt have much of a chance to begin with and wjsn is doing fine. the only group this relates to is guggudan and that is because majority of sejeong fans believed she should have gone solo and kicked up a fuss about it.

the issue is not with the lineups per se but that the public especially for GG didn't know who the other members were...

bphouse said elsewhere on a related/unrelated topic...that we want to see the interations between the members who are our favs that were IOI/Izone (can't speak for BG)

eg. izone j-line struggling/learning/getting fluent in korean, somi v sejeong, etc etc once they disband we have people who we don't really know and have to rebuild that dynamic again which sometimes people just go ehhh...can't be bothered

Post produce being too big is a factor but not the only.

Post IOI:

Pristin had 10 but they were the one that were doing good because 7 of them did well in produce with 4 reaching final and 2 debuting. Plus 1 of three not in produce did Girl Spirit. So people knew 8 of them plus they promoted pre debut with 8 members and even released "We" so fans already know the group. They failed because Pledis ditched them for still unknown reasons.

Weki meki has 8 with 4 on produce. The problem is that only Yoojung and Doyeon were known, many didn't remember Elly and Sei from produce and the other four were completely unknown. Nor they promoted much predebut with the full group. Once they debut all the attention was on the 2 from ioi and the main vocal. So here yes was a factor especially since this three are still the most promoted.

Dia is a mess, they were 7 then one was replaced, then 2 got added became 9, the other left. They were always doomed being in MBK. More than the number it the continuous line up change and the poor promotion.

WJSN were already debut and from a know company and already a big group with 12 then 13 and they are doing ok.

Gugudan were 9 and were too many. People didn't like the concept, the name, their debut being during ioi promotion. Most only wanted Semina as they had 2 amazing vocalist and a good dancer and rapper, but when the subunit was created people only cared about Sejeong as she already debuted solo. If they were maybe 5 with Hana and mimi as visual they would done better. But maybe Jellyfish would have still ditched them like Pledis with Pristin.

Chungha and Somi are doing well as solo like every member when promote alone is liked and known.

Post Wanna One:

Nuest the most successful of all but they were already debut and known.

CIX and AB6IX both from small companies and hype faded pretty fast because of long hiatus and Youngmin DUI scandal. Sad thing is that they sell less each comeback, so also the fandom in shrinking.

But i think Wanna one problem is too many solo too soon. Only Daniel is still popular both in show and with music. All are selling less with each album, with poor promotion and the attention completely faded. At least Ong and Jihoon are also actors. But no one seem to remember Jaehwan, Jisung and Sungwoon.

Post X1 is just sad. Only Victon and Cravity are doing well but aside the fandom they are not that known or talked. Drippin is already selling less each comeback. BAE173 is on hiatus and struggle to reach 20k album. Wooseok, Woodz hype have faded and Eunsang still don't have a group and as a solo is not doing well. WEI last album sold 80k but nobody seemed to talk about them after their debut. Same for Mirae but they sold only 50k.

Quote from bollino

Post produce being too big is a factor but not the only.

Post IOI:

Pristin had 10 but they were the one that were doing good because 7 of them did well in produce with 4 reaching final and 2 debuting. Plus 1 of three not in produce did Girl Spirit. So people knew 8 of them plus they promoted pre debut with 8 members and even released "We" so fans already know the group. They failed because Pledis ditched them for still unknown reasons.

Weki meki has 8 with 4 on produce. The problem is that only Yoojung and Doyeon were known, many didn't remember Elly and Sei from produce and the other four were completely unknown. Nor they promoted much predebut with the full group. Once they debut all the attention was on the 2 from ioi and the main vocal. So here yes was a factor especially since this three are still the most promoted.

Dia is a mess, they were 7 then one was replaced, then 2 got added became 9, the other left. They were always doomed being in MBK. More than the number it the continuous line up change and the poor promotion.

WJSN were already debut and from a know company and already a big group with 12 then 13 and they are doing ok.

Gugudan were 9 and were too many. People didn't like the concept, the name, their debut being during ioi promotion. Most only wanted Semina as they had 2 amazing vocalist and a good dancer and rapper, but when the subunit was created people only cared about Sejeong as she already debuted solo. If they were maybe 5 with Hana and mimi as visual they would done better. But maybe Jellyfish would have still ditched them like Pledis with Pristin.

Chungha and Somi are doing well as solo like every member when promote alone is liked and known.

Post Wanna One:

Nuest the most successful of all but they were already debut and known.

CIX and AB6IX both from small companies and hype faded pretty fast because of long hiatus and Youngmin DUI scandal. Sad thing is that they sell less each comeback, so also the fandom in shrinking.

But i think Wanna one problem is too many solo too soon. Only Daniel is still popular both in show and with music. All are selling less with each album, with poor promotion and the attention completely faded. At least Ong and Jihoon are also actors. But no one seem to remember Jaehwan, Jisung and Sungwoon.

Post X1 is just sad. Only Victon and Cravity are doing well but aside the fandom they are not that known or talked. Drippin is already selling less each comeback. BAE173 is on hiatus and struggle to reach 20k album. Wooseok, Woodz hype have faded and Eunsang still don't have a group and as a solo is not doing well. WEI last album sold 80k but nobody seemed to talk about them after their debut. Same for Mirae but they sold only 50k.

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Another point is, it’s just too much. Produce groups are saturating the Kpop market even more and it’s no help for anyone..

Kpop is about emotional investment.

And competition shows, people are invested in individual competitors. It never was going to translate well, putting those individual favorites in a temp group, or to expect that fame to carry when they are put in other groups.

Emotional investment can't be reconfigured that easily.

Chugha being the most successful, was because she avoided that and continued solo after I.O.I.

Somi and Itzy are better off without each other, but Somi got some time wasted, but still has great prospects.

Sejeong and others, had to waste precious time in groups - where their Produce success was often counter-productive than useful. Jellyfish should have pitched only SeMiNa and kept others as a separate group.

Kang Mina seems completely out of singing, while Sejeong seems to have the 'all-rounder's' jinx - decently successful in multiple fields, but the massive break-out always elusive.

Kang Daniel was smart to break out and go solo.

It does not matter how large the lineup are. The dynamic would still impact them.

The people who could debut as soloist did well to do so, they're the biggest successes of Produce.

It's a real shame for some others who did not make it. Unfortunately, the core stanbase and akgaes don't want to support most of the post Produce groups, they just want their original groups to reunite.

Even for groups who had members 'borrowed' from other groups, they'll make up excuses to claim they're unhappy and bullied in their original groups. It's toxic and will lead to nothing.

I would say yes, especially for Pristin Gugudan and Weki Meki.

If Pristin V was Pristin, they would have totally dominated. With two of the members being from IOI and the other members being passionate and talented, they would hit it big. It's easier for the general public to know 3 new faces instead of 8.

With Gugudan there's 7 other girls there. It's just too much. If they have Semina with one or two other girls, I think they'd be popular. Plus they could have branded themselves as vocal powerhouses like Mamamoo. And yeah people wanted Sejeong to go solo, but I think they'd be less upset if the size of the group wasn't so large.

Weki Meki is the only one who may have still struggled even with a smaller lineup, just because Fantagio doesn't bring that much privilege as a label. But I think they'd so better

WJSN starting building their brand before IOI. And Yeonjung just gave them a boost in popularity. The 13 members is part of the appeal.

Dia is just a mess lol

In conclusion, if you want to make it big and you're not under a big label, your group should be between 4-7 members. There are exceptions, of course, but this is true most of the time.