Does anyone else miss when K-pop wasn't directly targeted for the west?

I thought you were going to talk about earlier days. I became a kpop fan during the high of 3rd gen and it was a time when stanning kpop took a lot of courage because kpop was still finding their sound (or experimenting with Western pop) and although there were great songs a lot of them would be considered dated, failed attempts at copying Western pop. You would love it but you won't openly admitted to others you were listening to kpop. I missed those days the most, not because I could think of myself as edgy for listening to music most people won't, but because it was fun listening to the way kpop songs were built.

So yes, I miss the old days when Korea was still the main market of kpop.

Back in the day Kpop fans always wanted Kpop to become more mainstream(me included). Only now I'm asking myself "for what reason?".

They are still targeting Korea, except this time they are targeting Korea with the West. The groups that target the west are already popular in Korea, if they don't expand then there is a no growth. If they just keep on doing Korea then it will be the same old thing with almost no growth. Which is why these groups are targeting other places. To get more challenges, for example BTS. BTS are already super famous in Korea and they are always on top of the charts in Korea. It would be kind of weird if they did not target another audience since the demand is there. Basically what they are doing is answering the demand.

I think it's only the bigger groups that are targeting the west. Because if you just debuted a new group, you would try and cater to Korea before moving on to the west, or else you would be taking too much of a leap. (Though SuperM would be an exception to this)

I think Kpop has always been extremely western influenced. Korean music in general has been influenced by the west since the Japanese colonial period.

Kpop was started because the founder of SM got inspiration from MTV era in the United States when he was in America.

Not to mention most Korean genres are direct parallels of music that originates in the United States. R&B, Hip Hop, Rock, Pop etc. Even Trot is this weird fusion of western music introduced around the Korean war and music of the colonial period.

Even with art music (as opposed to pop music) it is heavily dominated by traditional western music such as Opera, Classical, and western style theater.

Even Pansori has fusion subgenres with western music genres.

With Korea's demographic crisis impending (population shrinking as less and less people have kids), Kpop labels need to attract foreign fans. What BH, YGE, SM and now JYP are doing is necessary.

Eventually, by the time the 5th generation gets started, Kpop will be an international genre. We'll see our first superstar non Asian Kpop idol and our first queer idol as well. We'll also see Kpop hits being sung in Spanish/Japanese/Mandarin (assuming China doesnt start WWIII)/French.

Agreed on the variety part. I think it was much more fun when they used to go more into Korean varieties than Western shows to promote (now they go to the latter more). Western shows like Ellen and the guy who throws fruit on guests (he is a good guy but the show is meh) is just not fun for me.

I think all these companies are just trying to make their money in the West before the bubble bursts. It'll probably settle down back to normal in a few years/whenever BTS falls back down to earth.

And even though I'm not super big on the Dynamite/SuperM/English version stuff, it does make sense. People on here say all the time that Korea is over Kpop atm -- of course they're gonna try out other markets.

Feel it everyday friend

Early BTS is the one I miss the most

Quote from Ves

I find this thread a bit ironic since we are on an international forum. Most of us found them because of the Hallyu Wave spreading its reach to international audiences. Perhaps some just miss it being a well-kept "secret"? Or liking something very niche?

Also, it kinda reminds me of a similar phenomenon of people moving on from a group when they get "too big" so that they can stan the next "hidden talent" until I guess they too become too big.

Ehh, usually these threads are just a subtle dig at whatever groups are most popular internationally.

Quote from 05riaha

It may have been influenced but it wasn't CATERED to the west, and that's the way it's now becoming.

I don't think it caters to the west. Most of the groups that cater to countries outside of Korea do so because they are not that successful in Korea.

The same way Japan existed as a way for failed groups in the second gen to make enough money to survive.

The popular groups like BTS (and for second gen groups that were popular in Korea and Japan) are obviously exceptions they do well in many different countries because they are globally popular they dont have to release Japanese or English songs but they do anyways because they can. These groups do it for reasons like the goals of the members, because they want to for their fans in these countries etc. Also, obviously for the extra money.

Where as a lot of groups that failed to get off the group in Korea have to focus on international fans to exist, I don't really think it is a bad thing. It keeps a lot of groups around that we would not have otherwise.

Kpop has always been trying to cater to the western audience, especially the bigger acts (BoA, SNSD, Wonder Girls, 2ne1, etc) I think people are just surprised that this blew up out of proportion, not to mention some of us weren't expecting to see Kpop groups being successful on a global scale. I think their success caught a lot of people off guard.

I remember back in 2013/2014 there were several people who thought/were predicting Kpop would die down by 2017 and here we are.

I still think Kpop is very different and fun compared to other pop genres, and I'm sorry that you feel otherwise. I hope you can stick around and find other groups you might like.

I miss 2nd gen era the most tbh

Quote from 05riaha

Have you been a fan since debut or after? Only asking because I can still remember the way I felt when I Need U was released. I miss that era so much

Since Boy In Luv so a bit after debut

Wish I was there from day 1

Never expected them to blow up the way they did but I'm so proud

Quote from emanresu

This is my central issue with modern kpop.

I preferred kpop when the zietgeist was indisputably centered on Korea and Greater Asia.

In my opinion 2nd generation was the perfect storm.

Hallyu was international enough that it allowed international audiences outside Asia to participate.

But Asia was still in the driver's seat.

It gave it a charm and character all its own. A cultural identity that seemed clearly distinct and separate from the West.

Influenced by Western trend but operating in it's own silo of experience.

With the zeitgeist shifted and kpop's top groups looking outward, it lost much of this culture shock and identity charm, shed to align with the ubiquitousness of international sensibility.

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While I still fully 100% enjoy K-Pop I completely agree that 2nd gen was the perfect storm.

When I first discovered K-Pop in 2007 it was the start of 2nd gen.

Then as 2nd gen grew it had the music styles that we didn't hear in the American music industry at the time. The songs were all hook songs with easy to follow choreo that made things so catchy and nostalgic.

It reminded me of late 90s/Y2K days of Bye Bye Bye, Oops I did it Again, etc.

2nd gen really was that perfect storm of where it still had a distinct difference in music structure but still was open enough and appealed to outside the Korean market.

I still think K-Pop now is amazing and I don't think most releases are trying to gain Western success as much as people think they are. I just think that because K-Pop labels are outsourcing to foreign producers more, we have more have the same music structure as the West.

Compared to in the past, you had Korean producers with very distinct music structures like Shinsadong Tiger, Brave Brothers, Duble Sidekick, Teddy, JYP, etc.

Quote from 05riaha

Tbh I stan aespa I listen to a lot of different groups though and I have a lot of memories with their music. So when I listened to Blackpink this morning I suddenly felt so emotional because I miss the old days lmao

I think I'm one of the few people who prefer 3rd gen/4th gen music over 2nd gen music.

Sometimes I listen to a few songs I used to love back in the days (I've known about Kpop since 2009) and I cringe to the core of my soul.

Quote from 05riaha

I first became a K-pop fan in 2012, during 2nd gen. So while I do miss those days, I also miss the days when the current top groups weren't so invested in the west. I hate having English singles just for the west, then a Korean comeback, etc. I just wish they focused on Korea. Like while Blackpink always had a "western sound" they actually focused on Korea in the beginning. I was excited for their first album but felt disappointed when a majority of the songs were in English because it felt like it wasn't for Korea it was for their western audience. I just miss their early days, straight up.

Yes, I agree with you. I consider The Album mediocre by kpop standards but good by Western music standards.

gotta say, something about this whole idea that "kpop needs to stay in korea and be for korean audiences only" is VERY strange to me. none of the groups you mentioned are ONLY targeting the west. and i think we need to stop saying releasing something in english is only "for the west". its a fact that english is the most understood languages across the globe. english music is targeting the global market, not just "the west". and doing promos in the u.s is not "targeting" or "catering" towards "the west". its an attempt to break into the amerian market which many international artists would love to do. you can have you're own opinion on whether thats the "right" sure but its weird to act like kpop arists can't want more for themselves. bigger markets mean more money. and china has pretty much already shut kpop out so all they have is jpn. and jpn and the u.s can be equal amounts as hard to break into.

BP never ploy shit. The chart for the very first time in bubling with aiiyl, a pink summer song whose title was sang in Korean and they just release lsg that chart like 20 weeks in melon top10

They went smoothly to those charts bc fans there wanted them there, it's not the same as groups who buy views and make tons on interview to not chart at all

Tbh, I'm not a big fan of most of the mainstream pop music that has come out in the US the past few years, most of it left me lukewarm.

Also a lot of the current American pop styles and trends are just not my taste, I often find it too cheap (even in production value), too exaggerated or too uncreative.

So I'm not that much for K-pop imitating the current American pop and hiphop scene too much.

What fascinated and drew me towards K-pop was that it was pop music, but a totally different scene from the American pop scene, and very much its own thing. There's a lot of things that K-pop even does better than American pop music, so hopefully those won't get lost in the hunt for international success.

Honestly, If my favs had only focused on domestic promotions I probably wouldn't know who they are. Also because of oversaturation of the market, had my favs only focused on domestic promotions they would have probably disbanded by now. So I have to disagree.