that ONE member who DRAGS the whole team

    crucify me all you want, but this is my take.


    making a group is an extremely meticulous thing to do. and to do WELL.


    often i see teams whole synergy, vocally or otherwise being ruined by ONE member.


    the thing is, just ONE member can change the flavor, the value, the overal synergy, aura of a group. just ONE member! which is crazy when you think about it but just SO TRUE.


    here are my takes:


    just replace Eunchae with Yunah and add Minju to Sserafim and the whole's team DYNAMIC whould have drastically shifted.


    i don't think there would have been any vocal controversies either.


    same with IVE, sorry not sorry but Gaeul isn't doing the team much service. She is one of these members who voice's just drag the team down. now imagine if Jo Yuri was added instead. the team would have been so much more vocally and artisticaly compelling. just Liz (for the most part) alone or with Yujin isn't enough in my opinion in a team of 6 members. IVE really needed another lead vocal.


    same with illit. only wonhee and maybe moka suit the concept. but Yunah definitly don't. even just switching Yunah and Enchae would have been such a GREAT change for the teams cohesion and dynamique.


    same with H2H, the members juun or even yuha (?) feel like they're taking more place than adding much to the team really, because of that, the potential of the whole team can be downgraded rather than the opposite.


    and there are many other examples like that etc...


    in conclusion, you can tend to think that in a team of 5,6 or even more members, ONE member wouldn't make that much difference, but i think it really DOES. one member only TAKES A LOT OF PLACE.


    my take is: ONE member can MAKE OR BRAKE a whole group (specially a smaller team)!


    that's it, that's my take, you can crucify me now :pepe-tea: .

  • Tatiana1820

    Changed the title of the thread from “that one member who ruins the whole team” to “that ONE member who DRAGS the whole team”.

    Why did you leave out aespa when you've been spending this entire month shading Giselle? Stand on business, Tattynumbers.


    Also, there were definitely stretches on 2024 where you were the biggest anchor in the war between Tokkis and HYBE stans in the Megathread :meme-kek:

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Yama-Chan

    Why did you leave out aespa when you've been spending this entire month shading Giselle? Stand on business, Tattynumbers.


    Also, there were definitely stretches on 2024 where you were the biggest anchor in the war between Tokkis and HYBE stans in the Megathread :meme-kek:

    i'm not shading aeri, i was just saying she wasn't up the level of the other 3 girls. BUT she does fit in aespa. both concept, vocally, visually and age wise. she does bring value to the team. she does bring somehting the other girls can't, in her rap specially.


    and most importantly, she does HARMONIZE well with the other girls VOICES.


    most of these members i mentioned DIDNT. that was the KEY element of my complaints.


    her dancing is weaker but with proper training she can hold her place.


    that girl is VERY talented, but the other three are just BEASTS. that's all.


    that's why i didn't mention her in this thead. omg she DOESNT belong in this thread, she didn't even cross my mind!

    Who would you choose in aespa?


    :meme-go-on:

    Momo? Leave it to an Aespa fan to not value dancing ability or stage presence at all. :facepalm:



    Lesserafim doesnt have any vocal issues lol they sound like any other Kpop group without autotune, backtracks, lipsync.


    Otherwise, i have no problem with switching out Eunchae for Yunah. However, instead of Illit Minju it should be real Minju being inserted into Lesserafim.


    Chaewon and Yunjin = main vocals

    Yunah and Kazuha = main dancers

    Real Minju and Sakura = main visuals, center, face of the group


    I see you left out Aespa in your analysis. Giselle adds nothing to the group we all know it, perhaps they would have been better served bringing in a charismatic, 4D rapper and lead dancer like Izone Yena. This would help with Aespa's live vocals and performance controversies. :whatb:

    I feel like Sakura has too much star factor to not be debuted, but i also feel like she would belong more in a larger team. Or just be given mostly visual's parts like center dancing or smth. She was good in Izone in my opinion!


    Shua i kinda agree, she's is one of these visual member again who dont have to be vocalists really. But I do think that ONE weak vocalist visual has its place in a group. But she can't sound BAD. yk?


    Momo is pretty charismatic in my opinion, she blends well in twice, again as long as she gets minimal singing parts. The Twice members I wouldn't have debuted personally would have been Chaeyoung and maybe Mina. Because I don't really see what irreplaceable value they add to the team except take more place.


    But overall, Twice needed to make their vocalists sing most of their songs, or add another lead vocal to the team instead of Chaeyoung maybe and that could have changed a lot of vocal dynamics and musical synergy in the team.


    You forgot Giselle. She cant sing or dance or rap.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Tatiana1820

    ONE member wouldn't make that much difference, but i think it really DOES. one member only TAKES A LOT OF PLACE.


    my take is: ONE member can MAKE OR BRAKE a whole group (specially a smaller team)!

    if we put just this part from your words

    I would say yeah you are right

    because if ONE member was missing from a smaller team it would mean that instead of 4 members there would be just 3 members on stage, and that would be a HUGE GAP


    :omg13:

    Bro give the og Minju up :flop::flop: . She's OUT OUT!


    I do agree she would have been a great addiction to the team tho but i also think that the team needed another lead vocalist. But yes i do like your version of ssera as well :thumbup: . But Yunjin would have to take more vocal lessons and be a proper lead vocal.


    YES Eunchae vs Yunah switch would have been SO SATISFYING.


    For aespa, I disagree, I DO think Aeri adds value to the group! And most importantly, that she harmonizes well with them vocally, visually and concept wise. (age too)


    But if I had to be honest, if i wanted to upgrade the team or make another ideal version, instead of adding a new member, I may have prefered an OT3 aespa.


    Winter Karina NingNing


    Karina: visual/center, rapper, lead dancer

    Winter: lead vocal, lead dancer

    NingNing: main vocal, magnae, lead rapper


    Each member would have been like the main character. man that could have been so powerful.


    Yena is way too cute looking to be added. i did thaught of Xiaoting, i feel like she would be pretty great in aespa, but there is already a chinese member, and i prefer NingNing so...



    ps: also no there are plenty groups who sound better than ssera with raw vocals, just go watch the encore performances. all my faves do at least :eyes: .

  • AllKill VIP

    I agree that Yunah would've been a better fit than Eunchae for LSF. Also, I think Minju possibly would've fit too , and I guess possibly a better fit than Garam. However, i don't think Eunchae drags the group down, but Yunah possibly would've been a better fit.


    Watching Minju perform at the LoL event made me realize we're never going to get this side of her. I don't think Illit can have a fierce type of content like the clip below.

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    I strongly disagree with some saying Momo drags the team down because what! Her energy when she performs on stage is needed for Twice and she doesn't need to have too many vocal lines. I know Jihyo is the ace of the group but having a strong dancer like Momo is needed to keep energy high.


    Strong disagree about Sakura dragging the team down because she has a presence when she's on the stage. She might not be the best vocalist, but her being a seasoned idol makes her shine when she's on stage.


    Shuhua is tricky because she's very good in variety and has such a unique visual. However, unsure if that fully helps the group when talking about performance and recording a track. She somewhat fills a void that Soojin had where people get drawn to the group because of unique visuals. However, she doesn't have the presence that Soojin had when performing on stage. I miss having Soojin in the group because the group felt more complete with her because she brought a lot of energy to the group. Lastly, I don't think Shuhua drags the group down because Soyeon is one of the best performers in all of kpop. Then the other members bring something unique to the table with their vocals and energy. I think Soyeon being the great leader she is, she know knows how to hide weaknesses for the group and play into their strengths. It's why talks of Shuhua being a blackhole in the group stopped because she found better ways to utilize her talents.


    Also, want to mention I don't think this thread is productive because I don't think 1 member can drag team down. I think only tricky part is having certain members can limit concepts and possible songs a group can perform

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Popper-of-Ks

    Momo? Leave it to an Aespa fan to not value dancing ability or stage presence at all. :facepalm:


    Yes momo

    I never said she's a bad dancer

    But Twice choregraphy aren't as hard hitting than Lesserafim or itzy for example

    And Momo never get a dance break in twice songs like for example Hyoyeon had sometimes in snsd song


    So her dancing skills are pretty useless cuz she can't really use them

    She's a bad rapper and one of the weakest vocalist ever


    So yes in a group where she can't use her dancing skills to its full potential and where she have to rely on rap part and vocal part she brings her group down


    I would not have name Momo in this discussion if she was in a dance focus GG where her dance skills could be realky highlighted but it's not the case in twice


    And yeah i agree with Sakura

    Sakura is an idol who only fits in a very large group like akb48 or izone where there's too much members that she barely have lines and her weakness are hide

    In a small group like Lsrf she stand out too much and not in a good way when it's time to sing


    Tbh Idle with or without shuhua would still be idol

    Sometimes i completely forgot her


    I almost even forgot to mention her in this thread

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from BlackpinkHouse

    You forgot Giselle. She cant sing or dance or rap.

    Lmaooo someone is mad


    Go back stanning your outdated rigged group



    Quote from Yama-Chan

    Who would you choose in aespa?


    :meme-go-on:

    First of all no member bring aespa down

    But if i had to choose the least needed member in aespa

    I would actually choose Winter


    Simply cuz i think Karina as the face and center of the group brings a lot of fans and give a lot of public recognition to aespa


    Giselle is the "artist" of the group she's the only one who regularly compose and write and she's the main rapper


    So by elimination ningning and Winter are the only member with overlapping position


    And i think ningning is more needed because she's a great vocalist and better performer than winter


    Not you asking me this question as if i was some kind of blinded fan like you or bphouse to not be able to answer this question

    I think it really depends on the group we’re talking about. It’s hard to explain, but some groups can make you just ignore one member, while in others you can’t. I feel like it’s a mix of different things, almost like a math equation.

    For example, idle is a good case. Honestly, I don’t really care much about Shuhua ,she’s that one member, but she doesn’t stand out in a negative way at all. bp is another good example. Both of these groups have amazing chemistry and harmony, they cover for each other perfectly, and together they give off a really good vibe to the audience.

    And I think if a group isn’t very strong performance-wise, that one member we’re talking about sticks out even more.

    i agree that momo's strong points are often underused in twice but i also think that she is MAJOR factor of why Twice are so popular in Japan specially. She just has that typa face they identify with and love and on top of that she is a powerful main dancer, but she should indeed stick to rap.


    also i find her charismatic, i feel like her contribution to the group's performances is too big for her to be dropped. she isn't a fave or anything but she does seem to take a big and irreplacable place in the team.


    again, the member i feel adds nothing much to the team and doesn't have much stage presence or anything is Chaeyoung in my opinion. i don't even understand how she was debuted. mina on the other hand is pretty talented in dancing but still, her presence doesn't seem indispensable. and i personally think 3 japanese members is too much in a kpop team. at least if it's not a huge group like izone.

    Quote from Popper-of-Ks

    Momo? Leave it to an Aespa fan to not value dancing ability or stage presence at all. :facepalm:



    Mad? You literally started it with the way you've seethed on Sakura and that's been going on for years now lol.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Tatiana1820

    i agree that momo's strong points are often underused in twice but i also think that she is MAJOR factor of why Twice are so popular in Japan specially. She just has that typa face they identify with and love and on top of that she is a powerful main dancer, but she should indeed stick to rap.


    also i find her charismatic, i feel like her contribution to the group's performances is too big for her to be dropped. she isn't a fave or anything but she does seem to take a big and irreplacable place in the team.


    again, the member i feel adds nothing much to the team and doesn't have much stage presence or anything is Chaeyoung in my opinion. i don't even understand how she was debuted. mina on the other hand is pretty talented in dancing but still, her presence doesn't seem indispensable. and i personally think 3 japanese members is too much in a kpop team. at least if it's not a huge group like izone.

    Yeah i get it that she have a great stage presence ? But is she the only member in the group to have stage presence ?

    No


    In japan i don't think their popularity would have been impacted without her cuz there's still mina and sana who are really popular and are the one who get the big ads there


    Actually chaeyoung same, she's a nice rapper but her potential is wasted in twice


    Actually i think Twice could still work if they lost chaeyoung or dahyun

    But momo absence could feel more


    But the reason why i picked momo as the one between the three that bring the group down


    It's because even if chaeyoung and dahyun are pretty useless in the group, when they sing they don't stand out badly in the group

    Momo do that's why she's the one bringing the group down more than dahyun or chaeyoung


    There's a proverb that says basically that it's better to not stand out than standing out in a bad way

    Quote from superyeah

    I take it back. You’re not the savior of AKP. </3


    Why not “that one member who elevates the whole team”?


    Why focus on something you don’t like? AKP has enough masochism already.

    our love story didn't last long </3</3


    i guess it's because i'm a perfectionnist and i love to imagine things, polish and perfect all potential flaws i can discern. i can get VERY obsessive about stuff like that in my life in general, i guess that's just who i am :pepe-sad: . it's ocd borderline typa sh*t no joke :pepe-puddle: .


    but i CANT HELP IT.


    and in my mind it's for the greater good! for the best and more perfect outcome and ultimised potential :meme-elmo-fire: ! like i may sound that i'm critisizing these teams, but in reality i only aim to perfect and upgrade them in a producer typa way :pepeflushed: .


    :pepelove2:

    Quote from Popper-of-Ks

    Momo? Leave it to an Aespa fan to not value dancing ability or stage presence at all. :facepalm:

    So many times, she sings the same part as stronger vocalists and does better because of her unique nasally tone.

    Example: One Spark, Battitude.

    A lot of k-pop singers would not be able to sell her part in Battitude, but allkpop is not ready for that conversation.

  • AllKill VIP

    I'm not sure any one member drags down an entire group since members will all bring their own upside even if it's outside of performance abilities, and those that don't are usually average members that wouldn't bring anything down by definition.


    The group members are there to cover each other, and if one person is enough to bring down an entire team then the team the team likely has several flaws apart from the one member. It was badly made in the first place.

    Quote from Varenka

    I'm not sure any one member drags down an entire group since members will all bring their own upside even if it's outside of performance abilities, and those that don't are usually average members that wouldn't bring anything down by definition.


    The group members are there to cover each other, and if one person is enough to bring down an entire team then the team the team likely has several flaws apart from the one member. It was badly made in the first place.

    I'd agree with this, actually.


    Like, I don't actually think that any of the groups mentioned in this thread would be able to survive with one less member. As "talentless" as people think they are, they all still bring something unique to their respective groups.

    Quote from jeyikal307

    So many times, she sings the same part as stronger vocalists and does better because of her unique nasally tone.

    Example: One Spark, Battitude.

    A lot of k-pop singers would not be able to sell her part in Battitude, but allkpop is not ready for that conversation.

    It's the subunit, but I think a song like Marshmallow shows what Momo can add to a song. I think she adds personality to a song and it shows when they perform the song she adds her touch to.

    Quote from Minazuki

    For a member to drag the whole group down, the group needs to be HELLA bad to be so negatively affected by a single person. So the problem is not only the "bad member".

    Or the member must be really inadequate for the team.


    But most importantly, the vocal harmony in a group is ESSENTIAL, and a complexe, harduous thing to achiev.


    Most of the members i named stick out so badly mostly because they disrupt this vocal harmony and doesn't allow it to be fully realized.


    Which wouldn't really 'ruin' a team wholeheartedly, specially in their rookie popular years if they have hit songs and nice branding, but the cracks will inevitably show one day and the team won't survive the taste of time. Or be one hit wonders and such. Or never really make it.


    And I think that is intrinsically linked to that ONE member. (if not more of course)

    Nah, even if the members you have in mind are perceived as bad and/or unsuitable for their group, contrary to your perspective, I think the most they can do is not standing out posivitely. In the end, they, alone, end up being harmless to the context of the group as a whole.


    Either because the whole group is average in some way, or because there are very good members that make me forget that any not-so-good ones are there.


    Since we're talking about vocals, I can think of several groups that have a good vocal reputation because of the outstading talent of one or two members, while the rest are easily average to bad.


    If a group gets, let's say, viral because of the vocal quality of a single member in a group performance, then perhaps the difference between that member and the others isn't that significant.

    Quote from citron-icy

    Are we talking about kpop or an English rock band from the 70s? Agencies literally create groups based on visual consistency, they don't care about anything else. The question should rather be who is not useless and is the real pillar of the group.

    and that's why most groups fade into irrelevance :pepe-tea: .

    and real good music with real good voices and vocal harmonies withtand the taste of time. at last in terms of the cultural impact of their music.


    but yes pillars are also essential. that's a nice counter thread topic to this one.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Tatiana1820

    and that's why most groups fade into irrelevance :pepe-tea: .

    and real good music with real good voices and vocal harmonies withtand the taste of time. at last in terms of the cultural impact of their music.

    Most groups don't fade into irrelevance because they were never relevant due to not having big company backing despite talented members or quality songs. Non-vocalists play a huge part in getting a group popular with the general public to put themselves in a position to be remembered, and this is most easily done through a select handful of companies that the public already look at.


    We shouldn't overvalue vocal lines and undervalue non-vocal when talking about group influence and popularity.

    Quote from Varenka

    Most groups don't fade into irrelevance because they were never relevant due to not having big company backing despite talented members or quality songs. Non-vocalists play a huge part in getting a group popular with the general public to put themselves in a position to be remembered, and this is most easily done through a select handful of companies that the public already look at.


    We shouldn't overvalue vocal lines and undervalue non-vocal when talking about group influence and popularity.

    well many sm groups for example tend to last, bgs or gg and even their visual non vocal lines are at least decent/nice in performing THEIR parts. therefore the fact that they're not vocal members doesn't negatively impact the group because MOST of the member can sing fine.


    i'm saying a vocally dissonant member, who isn't even smartly utilised can destroy a song, therefore potentially the discography of the group.


    another proof is taeyon and iu, their vocals alone make them last twice if not more longer than pure visuals who have a much faster expiration date.


    and i think it's the same in terms of groups. if the group's music is mostly build around these vocal pillar members, it has a much better longevity and overall cultural impact (once successful) and also withtands the taste of time. actually it can get even better.


    for example fx and rv.


    visuals alone don't last very long, specially if the voices in the group are mid or forgetable or worse, bad. the hype can die down pretty fast. specially because beautiful voices (on attractive people = pop stars) are much more RARE than pretty faces.


    people hop from one pretty face to another pretty fast, but they tend to stay more loyal to outstanding and beautiful voices and songs where there is great vocal harmonie. and it's easier to do so because they're much harder to pump out.

  • AllKill VIP

    Many SM groups can also last because they are part of SM and have the SM brand attached, which gives those groups of leg up in terms of getting eyeballs on them in the first place. There's a reason that getting backed by a big company is a huge advantage to a successful career, which is why claiming quality music is important for longevity is not really supported. Even the most impact 2nd gen groups aren't even at the 20-year mark, let alone later grouos that haven't hit 10 years. It's too soon to talk about the longevity for most acts.


    Yeah, even the worst singers in K-pop usually sound servicable in studio versions, which is the way most people will engage with songs. Even if they can't hit it live, they often don't need to do that, so it doesn't really matter.

  • AllKill VIP
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