With the exception of NJ, 4th gen is the WEAKEST gen to ever come to KPOP

  • AllKill VIP

    many 4th gen groups had a big start and then a very QUICK decline, at least on the globale scale specially.


    instead of growing bigger like bp and twice around/after their 3rd year.


    itzy, ive, sserafim etc... it doesn't help the gg who had the biggest potential is on a forced hiatus too...


    cause let's be real, the only gg that had a real globale/western appeal in 3rd gen was BP. and their closest 4th gen equivalent is MIA atp so...


    personally, i think this 3rd gen low longevity is generally linked to production origins, and therefore the lack of good vocals plus inconsistant concepts.


    when you think about it, the big three went under tremendous transformation and changes in this gen. jyp started flopping and had beefs with many streaming services, both sm's and yg major producers/creatives have left to establish their own companies (well sublabels) like Teddy (yg) and MHJ (sm).


    and then hybe came in like bulldozer!


    the industry is REALLY unstable in this gen and specially now. so far in this chaos, the blacklabel is standing out like some blue ship. which used to be ador... like it's a MESS and the future is very unpredictable; but the korean president promised more protection so it might get better soon probably :wellr: .


    the real 5th gen might be the more powerful one yet. and for me this 5 gen really kicked off with ADP / (huntrix?) and maybe the redebut of nj :pepe-tea: .

    Nah.


    1st gen is the weakest.


    The top 4th gen groups have surpassed every 2nd gen group in success, excluding SNSD if you account for their legacy rather than raw stats. 2nd gen has a lot of depth however.


    3rd gen, only BP and Twice are above/at the level of the success that the top 4th gen groups have. RV, MMM and GFriend are there too, but beyond them who else in 3rd gen was relevant? Maybe Oh My Girl actually. Otherwise 3rd gen didn't really have much depth behind that top 6.


    4th gen, NJ, Aespa, Ive, LSF, Gidle, Itzy, Izone, StayC, NMixx Everglow, Loona etc etc


    And if you're taking out NJ, then take out SNSD and BP and compare.

    Quote from Tatiana1820

    cause let's be real, the only gg that had a real globale/western appeal in 3rd gen was BP. and their closest 4th gen equivalent is MIA atp so...

    This is false. Twice is very successful in the west. Results came later for them in that market, but they're very successful in the market. Also, I think we have to remember kpop for the most part is seen as niche in the west even though there's some success stories. I don't think it's at a point where any act is mainstream. We'll see if KDH will result in people giving kpop a chance or if it's own contained success.

    Well in terms of what :?::!: i voted no regardless!


    4th gen literally has higher peaks than 2nd and 3rd gen with better longevity overall.


    Majority 4th gen are 3/4 years plus most 2nd/3rd gen groups had already declined at this point with a few exceptions :oops:


    Plus there’s 1st and 5th gen lol!


    Edit: sorry speaking for girl groups I don’t know overall including boy groups!

    Quote from StanGIDLE

    This is false. Twice is very successful in the west. Results came later for them in that market, but they're very successful in the market. Also, I think we have to remember kpop for the most part is seen as niche in the west even though there's some success stories. I don't think it's at a point where any act is mainstream. We'll see if KDH will result in people giving kpop a chance or if it's own contained success.

    i think aespa or maybe meovv might have the potential to pull a twice. but bp were >>> except in japan. in that regard, njz are even more impressive.


    BP's streams, their brand deals, their bbhot entries >>> twice etc...


    for twice x kpdh, i don't think it's gonna do much for them. all their non kpdh songs underperfomed or flopped. and i don't see that changing much. they may get another hit in japan tho, cause japan is very loyal.

    Quote from Tatiana1820

    i think aespa or maybe meovv might have the potential to pull a twice. but bp were >>> except in japan. in that regard, njz are even more impressive.


    BP's streams, their brand deals, their bbhot entries >>> twice etc...


    for twice x kpdh, i don't think it's gonna do much for them. all their non kpdh songs underperfomed or flopped. and i don't see that changing much. they may get another hit in japan tho, cause japan is very loyal.

    Twice had success in the west before KDH. Interesting fact but if we're looking at projects they had projects that sold more units than Blackpink's highest sold in the US. Plus, if we look at soloist, they're not that far behind from Blackpink solos. Blackpink is of course more popular than Twice, but I don't think they're that far behind when looking at the US and UK market. I think there's most likely a bigger gap in Europe when looking at countries like Frace, Italy, Germany, etc.


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    Honestly, I don't think Aespa will hit big in the west. They're in their 5th year and they've been struggling to make it on Billboard list. They've had no entries on Billboard list and US sales isn't that great. Aespa has actually declined in US sales. I think Le Sserafim will be the 4th gen group with success in the US market because they were able to get entries on the billboard hot 100 chart and they've had consistent album sales in that market. Honestly, I don't think any 4th gen group not named NewJeans will have the impact of Twice or Blackpink in the US market.


    Aespa US slaes

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    LSF US sales

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    I agree with your point about Meovv. The key to unlock Meovv is Gawon. I think she's super talented and her growing up in the US will be huge for them if they give them the right songs to promote. She's also a very good vocalist and one of the better kpop rappers. She truly an all-around talent and I think they need to push her because she's going to be a star.

    Quote from Tatiana1820

    i think aespa or maybe meovv might have the potential to pull a twice. but bp were >>> except in japan. in that regard, njz are even more impressive.


    BP's streams, their brand deals, their bbhot entries >>> twice etc...


    for twice x kpdh, i don't think it's gonna do much for them. all their non kpdh songs underperfomed or flopped. and i don't see that changing much. they may get another hit in japan tho, cause japan is very loyal.

    Extremely funny that an obvious fact such a "Twice are successful in the west" triggers you to go on your nonsense again. They're the second most successful girlgroup in the west by pretty much all metrics, with the only potential competition being NewJeans who were cut short before they could definitively knock them off their perch.


    But anyway, their songs "underperformed" or flopped? By what metric? They're doing slightly better than they usually do. But remember the last time you were keen to push this narrative?

    Please respond:

    Post
    RE: Takedown Twice Version or Blackpink JUMP : which is the more successful song this year?
    […]

    Of course, I would never be petty and spiteful, so I will leave it to others to analyse the numbers.
    As a reminder, this is how This Is For - a spectacular flop of an album released by a has-been group that nobody cares about - debuted on its first day:
    1pu4ozb3ghcf1.jpeg
    The title - another spectacular flop in a long string of flops - clocked 1.62M filtered streams and stayed on Spotify Global for 11 days. It debuted at 38 on the Global 200 and stayed for four weeks.

    In its first week, the album clocked 49.1M…
    jeyikal307

    I was wondering how Aespa were doing, especially after you yourself said "let's wait for Rich Man" in this post. I assume they did way better right? Show me the stats or otherwise acknowledge that if, by your standards, Twice flopped, then Aespa and Ive flopped even worse.


    Incidentally, This Is For is currently the third most-streamed 2025 k-pop girlgroup song in Spotify. Still charting on Japan Hot 100 on its eleventh week. Second most successful song on that chart after Jump. I don't think any other song lasted more than six weeks on there, but I could be wrong.


    Since the poster you were talking to was talking about western popularity though...

    The album is currently still charting on the Billboard 200. When the year ends, it will be either the longest-running album on there, or the second-longest after SKZ. It's still charting on Spotify's Global Weekly Album's chart. 10 weeks on both charts. Joint longest-charting k-pop album of the year on US Spotify along with Jennie I believe.


    Twice are currently the best-selling k-pop girlgroup in the US for 2025. They will almost certainly end the year with that title, having held it for five consecutive years.


    If this is flopping, what's the 4th gen been doing?

    I can tell you what they haven't been doing: Selling out stadiums in the US, which Twice did more than two years ago. When will they do it? Can I have a timeframe for these future achievements which you seem so keen on cashing in on early?

    CLOCK that :meme-happy-cry:

    still bp >> twice in terms of gp listeners and recognition. twice have a huge fandom but bp just had more maintream appeal. and you can observe that with their streams, brand power, bbhot entries etc...


    and i think it's too soon to speak on aespa. i think they had mad potential. they just need the right songs and the right push.


    regardless, the closest bp equivalent is mia right now, and that is hurting the 4th gen overall. and sserafim didn't do that well with hot either. twice were doing better.

    Quote from Tatiana1820

    and sserafim didn't do that well with hot either. twice were doing better.

    So, Hot actually did do better than Twice, and probably the only reason it didn't chart on the Hot 100 is because Carti dropped a thirty track album and pretty much all those songs charted. Very unlucky.


    Out of the fourth gen, Le Sserafim actually have a large (and growing) lead over the remaining active others. If anyone's going to be where Twice now are, it's them.

    i was mainly focusing on mainsream/gp driven musical success globably and specially in the west. by that standart bp>>>twice.


    and yes twice is not doing well apart of their kpdh collab. even by their standarts, they are flopping.


    for aespa and meovv, i said they had the 'potential' to pull a twice level of success overall in the west. that's all. not necessarily in terms of fandom size, but actually mostly on the streaming side.

    Quote from jeyikal307

    So, Hot actually did do better than Twice, and probably the only reason it didn't chart on the Hot 100 is because Carti dropped a thirty track album and pretty much all those songs charted. Very unlucky.


    Out of the fourth gen, Le Sserafim actually have a large (and growing) lead over the remaining active others. If anyone's going to be where Twice now are, it's them.

    twice were doing better at their peak. and even now with their kpdh collab they are doing better too.

    If we're talking western popularity then 1st and 2nd gen are weaker then 4th. If we are talking dancing, rapping, singing or performing talent I don't think NJ is the best in 4th gen at any of those things, let alone the one group that puts them over another gen. For domestic success or in East-Asia, you got Idle, IZ*ONE, aespa, IVE.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Tatiana1820

    and yes twice is not doing well apart of their kpdh collab. even by their standarts, they are flopping.

    This Is For is their best performing comeback since Ready to Be. Both song and album. The only metric in which they have declined is album sales.


    Nobody is saying Twice are equal in popularity to Blackpink in the west. But they are the clear number two (with the absence of NewJeans), and they do have popularity. Enduring popularity, not flash-in-the-pan popularity. That isn't something that has been achieved by the fourth gen girlgroups yet. They're not even close, and the touring clearly shows it.

    Quote from Tatiana1820

    still bp >> twice in terms of gp listeners and recognition. twice have a huge fandom but bp just had more maintream appeal. and you can observe that with their streams, brand power, bbhot entries etc...


    and i think it's too soon to speak on aespa. i think they had mad potential. they just need the right songs and the right push.


    regardless, the closest bp equivalent is mia right now, and that is hurting the 4th gen overall. and sserafim didn't do that well with hot either. twice were doing better.

    I agree that BP are more popular than Twice in the US. I just don't think either group are that mainstream in the US market.


    Honestly, I don't think it's too early to speak on Aespa because SM doesn't understand how to market to the west. I think last year was their best chance to breakthrough but SM didn't do much with it. I thought whiplash would've benefited from the Brat craze from last year, but SM didn't market it well to the western market. Also,there's a scenario where SM will soon promote Aespa less and focus on H2H. Hopefully I'm wrong because I like the group, but I don't see them doing any better than LSF in the west. I just don't think Aespa is the group to breakthrough in the west and that's okay because most groups won't.


    I agree about NJZ being the group to breakthrough. I had non-kpop friends singing the words to super shy which means they were most likely going to breakthrough very soon.

    I do think it's too early to put a ceiling on Aespa in the west. SM only started trying this year. You won't see the fruit of that for a while yet.


    If you would have said in 2020 that Twice would be playing a stadium in the US in three years, people would have called you absolutely crazy.


    I'm never going to talk about what groups can't achieve, just what they haven't yet.


    But I didn't think the question was about success in any market... I think the second and third gens both had a significantly larger pool of iconic groups. Obviously it's subjective, but... I dunno... Like, I don't see the likes of Weki Meki and Cherry Punch being talked bout the way AOA or Mamamoo are in five years time. Right? Red Velvet weren't as commercially successful as Aespa, but imo, I think their discography will continue to be repped by enthusiasts for far longer. But maybe I'm wrong! I'm not a shaman.

  • AllKill VIP

    That's true. I think a lot will depend in what steps SM takes for 2026. Also, i'm curious how renewal will go, but I assume it will be best for all parties to stay in as a group. I think the only wildcard is if NingNing has better opportunities in China, but I have no clue what her popularity is like in that region. I guess it will be like Yuqi where she might want in contract to do some solo ventures in that region but stay in group.


    I think the trickiest part of this conversation for the non-aespa point is the growth in popularity in kpop. I think most people became kpop fans during 3rd gen and beyond, so there's not much nostalgia for 2nd gen groups except for the top groups. You will also rarely hear people talk about first gen group, but the benefit of 3rd gen is people starting off with that gen will have nostalgia.


    I think the issue with Aespa vs Red Velvet is RV had more consistent releases. I think RV usually had better title tracks and b-sides when compared to Aespa. I think that's why you'll always hear many talk about RV because they have one of the best discographies and usually had interesting concepts. They also had a signature sound, which many will go back to. I think Aespa also has a distinctive sound which will make people reference them for a long-time. I think having a signature sound is key because it will always be a reference point. Hate to throw them under the bus, but I think longevity wise LSF could have some trouble once they disband. If we're looking at 4th gen groups, then I'm unsure what their "sound" is. I think other top groups have a more distinctive sound that many will reference in the future.

    Quote from StanGIDLE

    I agree that BP are more popular than Twice in the US. I just don't think either group are that mainstream in the US market.


    Honestly, I don't think it's too early to speak on Aespa because SM doesn't understand how to market to the west. I think last year was their best chance to breakthrough but SM didn't do much with it. I thought whiplash would've benefited from the Brat craze from last year, but SM didn't market it well to the western market. Also,there's a scenario where SM will soon promote Aespa less and focus on H2H. Hopefully I'm wrong because I like the group, but I don't see them doing any better than LSF in the west. I just don't think Aespa is the group to breakthrough in the west and that's okay because most groups won't.


    I agree about NJZ being the group to breakthrough. I had non-kpop friends singing the words to super shy which means they were most likely going to breakthrough very soon.

    I wouldn't say they would 'breakthrough' like bp or even njz but i do think they can do well there. They just need better management.


    But even if they don't it's okay too. With the right songs, they can be so INSANELY dominant in asia already and even globaly, and that's more than enough too.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Tatiana1820

    I wouldn't say they would 'breakthrough' like bp or even njz but i do think they can do well there. They just need better management.


    But even if they don't it's okay too. With the right songs, they can be so INSANELY dominant in asia already and even globaly, and that's more than enough too.

    Being popular in the west is not the most important thing, and some groups are better to focus on capturing the Japanese market. I think with Japan and other Asian markets there's more loyalty compared to the west. Just look at Kara for example, they can still sell out venues in Japan because they were the most popular group in that market.


    Of course being popular in the west is important because it will open more doors like brand deals, tour money, and other benefits. I just think kpop isn't at the stage yet where groups will breakthrough the market, but the popularity of Korean entertainment might accelerate the process. Also, the western music industry is in a weird spot where stars aren't being produced like in the past. There's less household names being created and it's mainly legacy acts sticking around longer than usual. Maybe there's an opportunity for kpop to gain more appeal in the west.


    As for Aespa, I don't think them not reaching the popularity of Twice isn't the end of the world. Most kpop acts won't reach that level of popularity, and they will always have popular Asian markets to fall back to. I feel as long as a group can tour and fill venues, then they should be fine in the US market. The top 4th gen groups are able to do that, so they'll be fine.

    Quote from SooYoung

    For example Twice peak lasted only 3 years

    And that was 9 consecutive number 1 songs for their peak, none of the 4th gen has even come close, the 2nd gen had 2Ne1 and Sistar.


    Additionally the 4th gen has weak BGs for Song Charting whereas the 2nd and 3rd had powerhouse BGs that were charting and winning every Daesang.

    Quote from Tatiana1820

    still bp >> twice in terms of gp listeners and recognition. twice have a huge fandom but bp just had more maintream appeal. and you can observe that with their streams, brand power, bbhot entries etc...


    and i think it's too soon to speak on aespa. i think they had mad potential. they just need the right songs and the right push.


    regardless, the closest bp equivalent is mia right now, and that is hurting the 4th gen overall. and sserafim didn't do that well with hot either. twice were doing better.

    You chase an absolute wrong group to back when it comes to international fans or US appeal :pepe-joy:


    Even LSFM have a better chance than aespa ever will with HYBE connections. Their music is absolutely not appealing to the US audience if they didn’t enter BB with their “hits” like whiplash why makes you think they’ll ever be able to chart?


    Twice and even SKZ or Ateez for example are able to enter the charts because they have a very solid following here. Aespa never did and probably never will. There’s currently NO sign whatever so ever that they have any broad appeal in the US. Just like every other SM group. Take the L here.


    BP and Twice is one thing but don’t use that to argue for aespa. Twice is significantly more appealing than aespa to the US. And shall remain so.

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