If you’re not from big3(now 4) you will be forgotten no matter how popular you were I.e if you don’t have company Stans your legacy will fade

All i have to say is you’re missing out big time on 2nd gen music bc 2nd ggs were churning out bop after bop like there’s no tomorrow

Quote from ISaidISaid

Just a weekend discussion.

I was just thinking about this. Since KARA came back and everyone was talking about them and how big they were

I have never heard a KARA song in my life. Nor T- ARA. Or any number of the other GG’s with hits.

But I have heard Suju and SNSD and 2ne1 or at least a few of their famous songs.... just because they were big acts of current big companies. I have no interest or motivation to go and listen to old music. And no one was there to even like talk about these old hits. But company Stan’s always keep their seniors alive in some capacity.

Anyway honestly I think this is the biggest privilege a big company has.

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it help being in the Big 3/Big 4 definitely
especially bigger company could help or promote their old songs by remastering to HD classic song/MV
and involvement for old group reunion

while being more fans more chance for fansub translation for international fans make them promote in the long run

I remember some old songs /mv no longer available in Youtube/Dailymotion etc
due to strict copyright law
most of the songs come from midsize to nugu company

I think it has more to do with most groups back then not having much in the way of fandoms beyond Asia to begin with, therefore little presence now in terms of stans. And given how Kara and T-ara were managed towards the end, it makes it even less surprising

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This is not really relevant to the point? I wasn’t hearing about Suju because they have a large American fanbase lol.

Are these magical company stans communicating with you telepathically then lol?

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You’re confusing company Stan’s with western Stan’s. They’re not interchangeable. Even if kpop had NEVER gone more international and even if it was only popular in Asian countries I believe that only big3 are remembered more.

If it's about you feeling big 3 groups presence more and therefore conflating that with a larger legacy, it makes sense as appealing more abroad = more stans to hype them up in areas you'd see them.

If you're somehow saying those groups have lesser legacies everywhere including Asia simply because they aren't Big 3, then no you're objectively wrong on an inarguable level. Especially about older groups

I actually agree with you here. My second gen knowledge and experience is pretty limited, but I can think of 2NE1 songs or Super Junior songs or Wonder Girls songs but I couldn't sing along to a Kara or Tara or Sistar song, let alone name any.

Wait, Kara or Tara has Roly Poly and Sugar Free, I know.

And Sistar has Touch My Body, so I guess I know one.

IMO, this has less to do with fandoms and reach and more about how those songs cease to exist in the kpop landscape. You can't turn into any show or concert in kpop without stumbling across someone singing and dancing to Mirotic, for instance. So even if I didn't know TVXQ (and I didn't), you couldn't escape everyone and their mom doing tVXQ covers or Shinee Replay or View, the same way today you can't escape new groups doing Twice and EXO covers everywhere.

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Legacy depends on if you’re remembered not just your past accomplishments.(at least the context in which I’m using it legacy literally means impact that is remembered) If you think KARA and TARA are remembered to the same extent as big3 groups that’s your prerogative.

I swear there's a kpop equivalent of lacking object permanence except they think groups' histories are retconned as irrelevant if there isn't someone screaming about their success 24/7.

If you don't even know their songs, how can you speak on their legacies?

This whole thing is giving "I don't know them so they must be irrelevant"

I partially agree. I think it depends on how big the group gets. I believe if Bighit never rebranded to Hybe and never bothered to debut any kpop groups after BTS and just decided to go full bang on gaming and Weverse, BTS would still have never been forgotten.

Because of this I think as long as the non big 3 group ends up becoming the biggest act in kpop for their generation, they will definitely be remembered. But that’s still a very rare thing

Quote from ISaidISaid

Your last para I think is an extension on company family and company Stan culture.

hmmm...possibly because my lens is definitely skewed to SM, but even if I go outside SM groups to say, Purple Kiss, who is at RBW, their covers are overwhelming big 3 songs or someone like IU. So if you were new to kpop and seeing this new group do "older" songs, that's how you'd learn about kpop.

Just running through some of their dance and vocal covers:

- They're SM stans : lots of EXO and NCT, plus Taemin, Kai, Taeyeon and Red Velvet

- Lots of Blackpink

- Lots of IU

- Some Twice, BTS

The only small company is GIDLE and of course their senior, Mamamoo's songs. There's some IOI and apink in there too predebut but overwhelmingly, it's recognizable 3rd gen groups and songs.

Quote from Golden_Wishes

I swear there's a kpop equivalent of lacking object permanence except they think groups' histories are retconned as irrelevant if there isn't someone screaming about their success 24/7.

If you don't even know their songs, how can you speak on their legacies?

This whole thing is giving "I don't know them so they must be irrelevant"

Literally. KARA and T-Ara combined sold more than 65 million units and are some of the best selling girl groups in history, but guess that don't matter since they did that without them knowing it or listening to their songs.

Here's a fitting song title for T-Ara for OP, apologies that it only sold a forgettable 3,042,000 copies.

Quote from ISaidISaid

Not sure what you’re saying here haha but that’s exactly my point. People love to remember big companies. It’s not because their music was better. But because in kpop a company has more legacy than individual acts.

I'm just agreeing with your premise and pointing out how it goes beyond the company stans. Other groups from other labels also focus on big 3 hits, which helps keep them alive for new generations.

Quote from ISaidISaid

I already said these were big groups. But that’s different from being remembered and being talked about.

If you have a different definition for legacy then it’s boring to continue this conversation.

In my context legacy literally means long lasting visibility of their hits and music and accomplishments.

1. Newer idols talk about T-Ara and older groups a lot lol.

2. T-Ara and KARA have that in Korea and Japan respectively. Every Korean person I know loves T-Ara because they remember as a part of their childhood and their music is still visible in Korean media. You Drive Me Crazy was in the Extraordinary Attorney Woo.

My issue isn't with your definition is that you're looking at the ocean and calling it a creek.

Quote from ISaidISaid

No I’m saying that’s ALSO because they too (other idols) give more importance to the company name.

Ah, yes, this is true. But do you think this is also about what the company's brand represents too? Like SM is famously known for vocals, so I'm fairly certain that the reason Purple Kiss does so many SM covers is because they're a vocally driven group so they are showing off their vocals by using SM songs.

Quote from screamingbanshee

Literally. KARA and T-Ara combined sold more than 65 million units and are some of the best selling girl groups in history, but guess that don't matter since they did that without them knowing it or listening to their songs.

Here's a fitting song title for T-Ara for OP, apologies that it only sold a forgettable 3,042,000 copies.

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You'd save more time making a list of groups that *haven't* covered T-ara than groups that had. Even in most discussions I see about legacy and success of their generation, they're placed ahead of most groups outside of SNSD or at the very worst on par. 5 years after that horrible scandal, when they performed at a festival where most of the people weren't even there for them, the crowd was screaming out their songs louder than they could sing them. The only GG to surpass them in success and relevancy in china is BP

Kara's old song are literally rising up the charts on Melon right now because people are so nostalgic, which didn't even happen to SNSD when they came back

But they weren't made by the great Messiah LSM so ig they're irrelevant now.

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btw have you seen Jiyeon's wedding pics? I really didn't think she could get prettier

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holy shit jiyeon got married?? Urgh how time flies she’s so pretty but we already knew that giving kim tae hee vibes in some of these pics

Quote from Whi

holy shit jiyeon got married?? Urgh how time flies she’s so pretty but we already knew that giving kim tae hee vibes in some of these pics

It's a crime that we never got those two in the same frame. Basically twins

And of course IU sang at her wedding

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It's a crime that we never got those two in the same frame. Basically twins

And of course IU sang at her wedding

iirc jiyeon iu and sulli were a trio besties of friends right? Urgh someone’s determined on bringing in the waterworks today

Quote from Whi

All i have to say is you’re missing out big time on 2nd gen music bc 2nd ggs were churning out bop after bop like there’s no tomorrow

That's true. Everyone released good music. I only stanned SNSD but I enjoyed almost every single from other groups. I had discovered the kpop world and everything sounded refreshing compared to western music.

Can't say the same about 3rd gen, and specially the 4th. I just can't enjoy the noise music trend... I have enough of it in the west already

Quote from the101

IMO, this has less to do with fandoms and reach and more about how those songs cease to exist in the kpop landscape. You can't turn into any show or concert in kpop without stumbling across someone singing and dancing to Mirotic, for instance. So even if I didn't know TVXQ (and I didn't), you couldn't escape everyone and their mom doing tVXQ covers or Shinee Replay or View, the same way today you can't escape new groups doing Twice and EXO covers everywhere.

yea I only know songs by say 4minute or T-ara because I listened to them myself but for SM groups I heard their songs even when I wasn't specifically looking them up because they have songs/people that are constantly brought up even today

How about Edam?

Forgotten by who? you? lol ridiculous.

that's one of many privileges that a big3/4 group has

It also depends on what type of K-Pop fan are you.

There are plenty of K-Pop fans who only listen to their faves, and close relatives to an extent. There are fans who only listen to known groups and artists, they don't bother to listen to others. There are fans who listen to almost everyone, basically a multi-stan or even a music enthusiast. There are plenty of fans very exposed/engaged to social media and communities, but there are those who prefer being a fan exclusively to themselves and to people they know in real life.

U haven’t heard the bop mamma Mia

😭

We are using examples from the second generation, but in the third generation this is already happening. Where is Mamamoo? Nobody talks about Mamamoo anymore

They were the 4th biggest gg at some point, but they are already being forgotten