"but namjoon!" - an analysis of kpop's biggest scapegoat

  • Let’s begin with the definition of “but Namjoon”


    According to the Urban Dictionary, “but Namjoon” is a phrase used by k-pop stans when their faves are targeted for doing something problematic, so they try to point out something that Namjoon did years ago (that he apologized and learned from) to deflect the blame and attention.


    Interesting right?


    Especially considering he knows about it!


    Below you will find scs of the insufferable Youtuber “ajanae” talking about Namjoon. Now, you may be wondering why she’s discussing him. Well, it was a video on Giselle's recent slip-up, and somehow she managed to make it about him!




    But enough of that, let’s get into the *good* stuff. What did Namjoon do? Did he really apologize?


    Let’s begin.




    Not great at all.


    Here’s what he had to say:






    That was… a lot, right?


    The argument that “there’s no apology at all” is ridiculous no matter what viewpoint you have in it. There is an apology and it exists. It is up to AA (I’m trying to find a way to say black that doesn’t come off weird, apologies if it does offend) people to forgive him. I want to make it clear that I am defending the person he IS, not the person he WAS. It’s notable that he’s never repeated his mistakes- and to lie and say that’s not indicative of anything is just disingenuous.


    The point that needs to be construed and relayed to antis is that people can change, and if their logic was true, their faves are just as “bad” as he is.




    So let’s get down to it, *why* is Namjoon kpop fan’s biggest scapegoat?


    First let’s define scapegoat:

    scape·goat

    a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others, especially for reasons of expediency.


    After snooping around the internet, I see why people target him so easily... His apology was “vague”


    In the eyes of some k-poppies, a very genuine and pretty sincere apology does not count if it is vague- which is quite interesting considering that was the only huge controversy he got into so what else could he be talking about?


    Imagine I called someone a “carrot” on here years ago and the post resurfaces (let’s make-believe that carrot is a slur). I address it but I’m very vague about my apology. It’s a good apology. I genuinely won’t do it again and haven’t done it since- because I’ve grown...does me being vague about it make it any less sincere? Food for thought (literally).



    Another argument is that it was not an apology at all.


    So let’s define apology:

    a·pol·o·gy

    a regretful acknowledgment of an offense or failure.



    Did he not say he had flawed ways of thinking that he acknowledged and needed to change?


    To bring up a controversy directly from 2013 that most people had dropped by that point, right when they were getting famous (2017) would absolutely be stupid. I doubt the company would’ve even let him say the words “I’m sorry” or anything in depth for fear of rehashing something that could set all of their progress back, and I don’t blame them. So he did the second best thing- still admitting to his wrongs. Even if it was 4 years later it still proves my point that he’s still changed. He could’ve easily shut his mouth and not said anything at all bc no one was talking about it then- but he still felt the need to address that he knows he’s said insensitive things in the past and he’s changing.



    What gets me the most is the kpoppies’ performative activism.


    People’s faves are the end-all be-all. God forbid they do anything wrong, REPEATEDLY, might I add. It’s ok because they apologized that one time even though they did it again! It amazes me how people will get up onto their soapboxes and preach anti-racism when their fave is a repeat offender so they decide to deflect the blame onto Namjoon. For them, it was *never* about racism, it was always about protecting their idol. Silence for their fave but screaming for Namjoon to take accountability when he did and he made the effort to change.


    If you’re going to defend someone, tooth and nail (like I’m doing right now preparing for some wretched comments), at least make sure your fave hasn’t made the same mistake over and over and over and over again.


    It’s easy to deflect when you have tons of people behind you completely agreeing with you and suddenly voila! The blame is off your fave and it falls onto the shoulders of a man who, frankly, has nothing to do with your fave or their mistakes. Anger and hatred like that tend to be rooted in one thing- jealousy.


    K-pop fans, a surprising amount on here (I did my research and I see you!) have this odd tendency to get in little digs at BTS. It’ll be in completely unrelated threads too, I swear to god you could make a thread about ice cream and you could have someone in there being like “I bet J-Hope doesn’t even like ice cream!!". I digress, it’s still all rooted in sick jealousy- and that’s the reason why “but namjoon!” is so incredibly prevalent.


    Is it more prevalent among certain fans of certain groups? Absolutely, to the point where it’s a little shocking actually.

    Will I name the groups? No I will not because this thread does not belong in the Dumpster Fire.


    The people that will be attacking and angry in this thread will be doing so because Namjoon’s proof of change and better character outweighs the image of a monster (pun intended) they have of him in their minds.



    Deep down in their little hearts, these people are angry because they feel robbed. When their fave loses, they feel it, and they hold onto it- and that’s part of the reason why being a k-pop fan is so much different from being a western music stan. People put so much stake into music and awards and chart placements that it feels like a personal attack when their faves lose to BTS.


    (This isn’t me being “Oh BTS so superior blah blah”- this is me genuinely saying that they are just different)


    So when their own faves slip up, the first thing they do is grab their pitchforks and head towards the only person they do feel comfortable attacking- Namjoon.



    The rage lies in the fact that a man who made reprehensible mistakes had the ability to change who he was and blossom into one of the most successful idols in history- and some cannot handle that. I’ll still get people in this thread trying to argue up down left right that he’s still horrible- and that’s okay.


    If I only lived in an idol’s past, I would be miserable too.


    Hope you enjoyed <3


    - Vi





  • had to cut stuff out because of character limit. new allkill idea should be making the character limit 20,000 instead


    I WAS NOT ABLE TO INCLUDE NAMJOON BETTERING HIMSELF IN THE AREA OF LYRICAL MISOGYNY BC OF CHARACTER LIMIT, SO HERE IS THAT


    + the fact he consults women's studies professors with his lyrics now




    edit: holy shit hit thread incoming


    which means it's either gonna go very well or people are going to come in swinging (ur only going to prove my point babe)

    Edited 2 times, last by FeLiNa ().

  • Im reading...in a bit ill have somthing insightful to say :pepe-notes::pepe-notes::pepe-notes:

  • Deep down in their little hearts, these people are angry because they feel robbed. When their fave loses, they feel it, and they hold onto it- and that’s part of the reason why being a k-pop fan is so much different from being a western music stan. People put so much stake into music and awards and chart placements that it feels like a personal attack when their faves lose to BTS.

    i agree

    sometimes it does feel like some ppl take these things personally :shyy:

  • I really appreciate the effort you put into writing this... you broke everything down so succintly.


    I admire Namjoon's growth a lot, but that's not acknowledged from those kinds of kpoppies that use the "BUT NAMJOON" excuse. Terrible.

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  • i choose to trust that he has learnt from his mistakes

    he has not repeated his mistakes and that means a lot to me

    (i'm only talking about misogyny here since i dont think i should be speaking on the other matters)


    at the same time, i think its futile to try to change the opinion of non fans especially the ones who clearly have another agenda by bringing him up during fanwars

  • i choose to trust that he has learnt from his mistakes

    he has not repeated his mistakes and that means a lot to me

    (i'm only talking about misogyny here since i dont think i should be speaking on the other matters)


    at the same time, i think its futile to try to change the opinion of non fans especially the ones who clearly have another agenda by bringing him up during fanwars


    oh i'm not trying to change their opinions, some people will drown in their delusion and it's their own issue lol

  • I'm only gonna talk about the lyrics scandal...Was it Army fans that were criticizing him for his allegedly "misogynistic" lyrics in that one song War of Hormones? If so, they did him a big disservice and a disservice to BTS. How can you worship them as "artists" and "musicians who create", then turn around and bash them and shade them for expressing themselves? Namjoon was being honest af and it seems like his own fans turned against him.


    Men objectify women. It happens. Every one of us has at one time or another just looked at some rando hottie and thought i would love to just have sex with her, one night no questions asked. Namjoon's lyrics were unbelievably tame, i was shocked to find that it caused so much controversy.


    If you keep applying these insane SJW standards on your faves, you severely limit their creative expression.

  • And after all these years he still brought up his past in front of his president at one of the biggest American news agency. Like it’s pretty obvious the guy truly feels remorse and is not trying to hide anything

    yes.. respect!!!

  • lol i'm sorry but it had to be said. We live in this crazy SJW world where people walk around eggshells and others live in literal denial of basic biological facts.


    I'm too old for this shiznit. I grew up in a time when people just said what they meant, there was no need to sugarcoat the obvious.

    Okay but maybe if you're a man you shouldn't be telling women that they should be okay with being objectified.


    As a woman I don't think WOH's lyrics 'shocking' mostly because I heard a lot worse from other artists. But if some women are uncomfortable with it I will respect them and their feelings about it. And so will Namjoon, so what the heck are you complaining about. If he wants to have his lyrics vetoed by feminists first why are you so against it ?

  • Okay but maybe if you're a man you shouldn't be telling women that they should be okay with being objectified.


    As a woman I don't think WOH's lyrics 'shocking' mostly because I heard a lot worse from other artists. But if some women are uncomfortable with it I will respect them and their feelings about it. And so will Namjoon, so what the heck are you complaining about. If he wants to have his lyrics vetoed by feminists first why are you so against it ?


    I'm not saying it's ok. It sucks if you're uncomfortable with it. I get it.


    What I'm saying is that it's literal fact that men will always always objectify women, no matter how hard they try not to, no matter how hard they try to reeducate themselves.

    All the reeducation will go out the window the next time a pretty girl walks in front of them, they will first look and then they will covet.


    Everyone is free to do whatever they want. You want to criticize, fine. Namjoon wants to limit himself to please his fans fine. I get it.


    But objectively, it DOES do a disservice to BTS' or any artist's creative expression if they are literally banned from writing about a HUGE part of a person's life to accommodate their fans. Especially for young men of his age, sex is literally the driving force. That's my point. Fans go on and on about their faves being creative and honest and expressing themselves, then get bent out of shape when their faves actually express themselves honestly.

  • the whole thing about the apology being "vague" almost doesnt apply to namjoon because we all know and other kpop fans make sure we will never forget by constantly bringing it up any chance they get. he's already shown he acknowledges and understands that the nword is harmful, he's already shown that he values the voices and opinions of women, he's already show he respects marginalized groups the best he can. what else do kpop fans want from him lol. holding someone you claim to hate to a higher standard than the people you stan...some people just have no self respect!

  • But objectively, it DOES do a disservice to BTS' or any artist's creative expression if they are literally banned from writing about a HUGE part of a person's life to accommodate their fans. Especially for young men of his age, sex is literally the driving force. That's my point. Fans go on and on about their faves being creative and honest and expressing themselves, then get bent out of shape when their faves actually express themselves honestly.

    I think they managed. Thanks for your concern though.

  • But Namjoon is the epitome of kpop fans not really give a sh*t about anything except for talking sh*t when it’s convenient.


    If they really care about the issue they wouldn’t deflect. Whether namjoon messed up or not, or have reflected on his mistakes or not doesn’t erase whatever mistakes their faves did.


    But if they don’t care about the mistake/issues that their faves did, then why do they care about what Namjoon did or didn’t do?


    Make it make sense. If they care - call out their faves. If they don’t care - don’t. It’s funny to me they think they did something by saying Namjoon name. They want to act woke but they don’t want to drag their faves so they call out Namjoon instead.


    Stick to your principles! Pathetic clowns.

  • women don't rlly like that babe...it's kinds of scary and stressful as a women to know that ppl think of u like that.


    I know, i'm not oblivious to the added pressures and dangers that women face from men :-( . I do wish we could just turn the sex drive off like a faucet, it wouldve made my life a lot easier in my teens and twenties. Turn it on only when we're actually at a club or on a date lol.

  • I know, i'm not oblivious to the added pressures and dangers that women face from men :-( . I do wish we could just turn the sex drive off like a faucet, it wouldve made my life a lot easier in my teens and twenties. Turn it on only when we're actually at a club or on a date lol.

    good response :thumbup:

  • DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T.

    At least it seems that way when it comes to Namjoon.


    First they scream about how he has not apologized. When it becomes obvious that he has apologized and shown remorse, their comeback is, "We should not be celebrating a man who needs to check in with Woman Studies professors. If he was decent, he'd just know."


    He can't win against people determined to make him into a villain for their own petty reasons. In general, you really can't win against people like that - they are not open to seeing other views and accepting events that don't correspond to what they pulled out of that place the sun don't shine.


    I do think this post is necessary though, not for them, but because there are those who are open, but have just believed what they've been told without actually looking into the actual situation. SO BRAVO.


    For those of you who are open to actual facts and not just edgy comments from people who'd dislike RM not matter what, here you go!

  • FeLiNa

    Selected a post as the best answer.
  • not to mention how many times have i seen kpop stans say they dislike joon because of those things (which is perfectly fine) yet they continue to speak on him and follow everything that he does. they also wanna disregard his apology and act like it doesn’t even exist.


    like you have the right to not accept the apology but don’t act like it doesn’t exist.


    PLUS the person who wanna talk about joon turns around and be stanning a problematic group or idol.



    ps: great post btw! <3

    2d19dfd1afea7bcd726f5864f89929e1.gif

    (she/they/no her.) most sane hobi fan

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