Idol producers are not given enough credit

    It is normal tendency for people to be more involved with the outward face i.e. actors/idols, than the creative brains behind the content - directors/producers. But at least in movie industry, there is more credit given to the directors, than to Kpop producers.


    Most songs, simply can be performed by any decent vocal/dance talent, superlative performers at best add 10% to the content - it is the team behind the scenes that do the bulk of heavy lifting. Again similar to movies.


    For example, "Love Dive" was originally offered to Sunmi.

    But of course the brand image of the performer is very important to the success of the song. IVE on the rise, made LD a hit, which Sunmi might not have, even if qualitatively she is a better performer when it comes to talents and experience.


    It could be argued that Twice and Chungha are not shining in recent years, because BEP stopped producing for them and is focusing on STAYC, their own group.


    But then all producers don't risk by highly focusing on their own groups. Brave Brothers neglected Brave Girls, while giving many hits to AOA, SISTAR etc.

    Ryan S Jhun is giving hits for IU and Ive, while his own BugAboo are yet to make an impact.

    Teddy at least is decently more know for running BP, but Pdogg ought to have more acclaim, for the popularity of BTS.


    It is the typical director-actor dynamic, both are critical and actors will hog the limelight, but it is healthier to recognize the directors some more.

    Similarly in Kpop - the success of a group is highly dependent on the producer, yet Kpop has not matured enough to give them as much credit as given in other parallel entertainment scenes.

    maybe it's because for the companies it's the idols that sell due to the parasocial relationships and all that...

    it's the idols themselves that are the product not necessarily the music


    no one I think doubts that if a lesser known group sang the same song (let's say give LD to Lightsum or something) that LD (Lightsum) would've charted as well as LD (IVE)

    Quote from selfmate

    maybe it's because for the companies it's the idols that sell due to the parasocial relationships and all that...

    it's the idols themselves that are the product not necessarily the music


    no one I think doubts that if a lesser known group sang the same song (let's say give LD to Lightsum or something) that LD (Lightsum) would've charted as well as LD (IVE)

    Sure, yet not all songs given to top groups become a hit either.


    So it is a mix of things, yet of those things the idols themselves hog most of the credit.

    That is unavoidable, but other industries have matured better to credit other components as well.

    Quote from bbgc

    It could be argued that Twice and Chungha are not shining in recent years, because BEP stopped producing for them and is focusing on STAYC, their own group.


    But then all producers don't risk by highly focusing on their own groups. Brave Brothers neglected Brave Girls, while giving many hits to AOA, SISTAR etc.

    Ryan S Jhun is giving hits for IU and Ive, while his own BugAboo are yet to make an impact.

    This part tell you another thing, why the idol is worth more than just 10% of the song.



    If BEP gives the same song to Twice as he did STAYC, that song has a chance to go to #1 on the charts.



    A Ryan S Jhun song that is sang by IU will chart much better (and make more money) than a if he gave it to BugAboo.



    You are not wrong, producers and companies deserve a lot of credit, perhaps even most of the credit, but the popularity of the group (build by the company and prior success for sure) is also very important.




    Everglow and Black Pink could get the same song, and the chart results would be very different.

    You can argue both ways.

    That songs from other producers aren't working for Twice, as well as BEP did.


    My point is not that idols aren't important, but that compared to other entertainment scenes, K-pop is still highly monopolized by the idols, than the others who contribute to success.

    Quote from selfmate

    maybe it's because for the companies it's the idols that sell due to the parasocial relationships and all that...

    it's the idols themselves that are the product not necessarily the music


    no one I think doubts that if a lesser known group sang the same song (let's say give LD to Lightsum or something) that LD (Lightsum) would've charted as well as LD (IVE)

    This.


    But there is also people who are more curious about the works behind, like their music producer or their creative and design team etc.


    But yeah, mostly the good thing is just goes to the idols because many people love the idols first.

    Quote from bbgc

    You can argue both ways.

    That songs from other producers aren't working for Twice, as well as BEP did.


    My point is not that idols aren't important, but that compared to other entertainment scenes, K-pop is still highly monopolized by the idols, than the others who contribute to success.

    Idols are a product that is sold by companies to their fandoms, for sure.


    There is a lot behind building up that product, but part of making a song successful is how much does the public love their favorite product.


    Once you establish that you can sell music better.



    Establishing that product is not easy, it takes investment, the producer that gave 4Minute a bunch of hits tried to establish his own GG, and they failed and disbanded after 2 comebacks.


    Shinsadong Tiger has produced a bunch of hits in his career (he gave us boom boom), yet Tri.Be is struggling to stay out of nugudom after 4 comebacks.



    So is definitely a combination of both. Picking and shaping the idol into something that can be loved is also very important.

    Quote from bbgc

    Sure, yet not all songs given to top groups become a hit either.


    So it is a mix of things, yet of those things the idols themselves hog most of the credit.

    That is unavoidable, but other industries have matured better to credit other components as well.

    that is true - but at least certain people are more likely to check out a song if it's sung by an established top group rather than a lesser known group? would that be a fair statement? that although being a top group doesn't guarantee success it certainly gives that group more opportunities?

    Quote from desdesdes

    This.


    But there is also people who are more curious about the works behind, like their music producer or their creative and design team etc.


    But yeah, mostly the good thing is just goes to the idols because many people love the idols first.

    I'm sure that would affect certain people who follow such persons and have an interest in such things but like you said for the vast majority of kpop fans the idols come first...


    one would check out the group and then say oh look xyz producer produced for them and xyz is pretty good so the song has a greater than average chance of dong well (based on the producers past history of successful music)

    Quote from selfmate

    that is true - but at least certain people are more likely to check out a song if it's sung by an established top group rather than a lesser known group? would that be a fair statement? that although being a top group doesn't guarantee success it certainly gives that group more opportunities?

    Applies to actors as well, a film with an A-list star will definitely open better than the same film with the unknown..

    yet directors are better known in that industry.


    Tell me, how many K-pop fans do you think can even name a few producers?


    at best if they know the producers of their own favourite group, that itself is rare..

    Teddy Park used to be nearly as famous as BIG BANG and 2NE1 themselves, everybody knows Brave Bros and their contribution to SISTAR's success, Shinsadang Tiger is (edit: was) a household name in Korea.....2nd generation Kpop fans were still pretty aware of who was producing music.

    It's these 3rd/4th gen fans who are less aware I mean the Kpop market is so oversaturated new fans I know can't tell me the difference between most of the groups, huge companies like YG & SM & JYP and get them mixed up all the time, let alone the producer behind their favorite idols' songs. I think the only one who retained his fame to some degree was Teddy Park and his production on BLACKPINK's and Somi's songs, but even that's known to a lesser degree than before.

    let me try to name five lol


    in no particular order


    Teddy

    BEP

    Galactika

    Pdogg

    Kenzie

    Quote from bbgc

    Sure, yet not all songs given to top groups become a hit either.


    So it is a mix of things, yet of those things the idols themselves hog most of the credit.

    That is unavoidable, but other industries have matured better to credit other components as well.

    o.o. from nmixx floped but its still more successfull than relative successfull songs from smaller unknown groups. And nmixx is still the smallest from all the big3 groups.


    Maybe other Industries arent dominated by a few individuals like Kpop is.

    Let Bugaboo or everglow join yg and they will also manage to chart on Melon.

    Quote from selfmate

    that is true - but at least certain people are more likely to check out a song if it's sung by an established top group rather than a lesser known group? would that be a fair statement? that although being a top group doesn't guarantee success it certainly gives that group more opportunities?

    Top group, or Top label?


    Nmixx sold more albums, completely SIGHT UNSEEN, then most of the lower tier GG's ever sell.


    And I know you personally won't, but other people don't care come in with "songs sucked lol". There's been some great, great songs by nugu groups over the years that get paid dust.


    I feel like the OP is mostly right. This current screaming about IVE, how they have "great music", which may be true, but that's almost nothing to do with the group. It's kind of this strange thing where we laud groups for something where they rarely factor in to the success.


    I feel like the example before of say, LD to Lightsum is highly illustrative - because Lightsum would do that song just as well as LD (if not better, but I don't want to start a separate argument), but perhaps wouldn't chart as well. So the performers aren't even the equation in song itself. Just external visibility factors (Wonyoung's Izone/48 popularity).


    Musical producers are hard carrying much of the success of the groups at the moment, and it's always a weird disconnect that all success is attributed to idols, who are just essentially marketing for the song.

    Quote from gamma

    I completely agree. If people are here for the music it's weird that they don't also follow the producers of the songs they like

    That’s even more weird though :huuh:


    When normal people hear a song they like, their first action is not to look up the producer but rather the artiste and if they have similar songs to that.


    Also producers are known for making songs catering to the artiste. So you aren’t guaranteed to like the next song they put out if they work for a different act.


    I think looking up the producers to a track and following them like an artiste is a rare thing

    It depends tbh. For example Brave Brothers make very similar songs for all groups he produces for, so if I like T-ara So Crazy, it makes way more sense to look up other Brave Brothers production like Aoa Short Hair because it is very similar, than checking other T-ara songs because they really have nothing to do with So Crazy

    little bit from column A / little bit from column B? to begin with we know there is big 4 / survival group privilege however that privilege can only carry one so far in terms of K charting (ie. o.o and nmixx) even though their album sales are very strong


    yeap and that's the problem right there is a lot of groups and even the lesser successful ones who aren't nugu per se but just lesser known/less successful let alone the true nugu groups who we don't even know the names of lol - it's hard to get recognition and gain any form of traction unless a song goes viral or a member goes viral...and of the lesser successful/nugu groups because they aren't on the radar no one bothers to listen to their songs so even if they have a great song it sits and collects dust...


    which brings me back to my point which is companies aren't selling music they are selling idols - the music is secondary at best...

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