4th gen groups' stage presence is all camerawork?

not my skz

itzy are also good performers without a doubt

No Rules has entered the chat to partially debunk this

Quote from LovenRose

SKZ debuted early 2018 so they're almost 3rd gen. Plus they were active for almost two years before covid shut everything down.

Itzy Dalla Dalla stages were all identical.

Itzy are great on camera but not sure how they'd be to watch live

There's no such thing as almost 3rd gen, they're 4th gen. On top of that I doubt the validity of the "covid worsens stage presence" because if we look at someone like Hyunjin, yeah his stage presence has always been really good but he reached a whole new level in 2020, same goes for some other members, also you can still see newly debuted idols who are fun to watch on stage like Tsuki.

idk I haven't watched all of Itzy's stages, but when I see them perform, I enjoy it.

Quote from LovenRose

Almost half the forum considered 2018 3rd gen

you're assuming akp forums are relevant and have weight in these discussions lol…those 10 people are alone with their opinions

Quote from LovenRose

I'd put Skz as 3.5

and sorry but who cares about your ridiculous opinion?

And if you're going to ignore everything else that doesn't support your narrative, why make the thread in the first place? Does being so negative make you happy?

Quote from LovenRose

Partially being the word

At least Hybe has fun choreographies. Too bad they can't sing at the same time

My partially was cause im not defending some boring groups but I'll pray for your ears to heal

Here's more choreo for you

Quote from LovenRose

We're literally on allkpop. Ofc it's relevant

The record of active users on the forum are 16k people and that was right after the revamp. In the thread you brought up, I think there were no more than 10-15 people trying to deny what is a fact.

There are millions of kpop fans.

Do the math.

Quote from LovenRose

Itzy are good on camera, lots of 4th gen groups are, but how much does camerawork and re-takes play a part? That's what the thread is about.

Actually the first stage that came to my mind was their MAMA2021 stage, which was live with a live audience, so I have no doubts they're pretty good even though I don't stan them and don't like a lot of their songs

NMIXX can't relate

Fite me

kpop as a whole rarely has any groups with good performance skills

i agree completely. kpop performances keep getting soulless and robotic with all the tricks music shows and companies keep playing to give us stages that are anything but genuinely human lol.

Sometimes I feel like 4th is kind of like a bridging gen between 3rd and 5th cos even though they are seeing a lot of success, mostly cos kpop now is more popular than previous, there's nothing really new and innovative and just super engaging and it seems to rely heavily on visuals, company reputation and bragging rights. It's also super uncomfortable that all these young idols are debuting and they've already had so much work done on their faces to get the visual label. The jaw shaves need to stop.

ATEEZ, SKZ and TREASURE exists

Quote from LovenRose

The difference between Queendom and Kingdom was telling. I think kpop was already moving towards that direction but covid hurried it up.

i didn't watch kingdom so i don't know about that

but Queendom had some really nice stages.

Quote from LovenRose

Kingdom and Road to Kingdom stages were fancy for sure. Some were great. But there was also a lot of focus on props and camera tricks. They didn't feel like live performances.

i noticed that even in recent award shows, the performances that usually get praised the most are ones that have lots of stage props and gimmicks.

I feel like Stray Kids' performance skills improved a lot during Covid era and It's interesting.

They've been always good, but recently when they performed live for a big audience in Dubai, I noticed it seemed like they've been performing for a live audience during all these years when they weren't.

I think It happened because they were active during the two eras: pre-covid and pos-covid. Both the time and the existence/the lack of live audience gave them the opportunity to try many different type of stages. So It was helpful to them to find what suits them the most in the stage and what makes them more confortable to engage with the public's perception and they can play with their strengths.

"They don't sing live". Do you think previous generations sang live on music shows???? hahaha

Kpop has always been prerecorded since forever and it applies to E.V.E.R.Y.O.N.E

Quote from fiascomangkunega

"They don't sing live". Do you think previous generations sang live on music shows???? hahaha

Kpop has always been prerecorded since forever and it applies to E.V.E.R.Y.O.N.E

nope, there was a time during 2nd generation, circa 2006-2011 when live singing was the norm.

lipsynching to prerecorded vocals was introduced by some music shows around late 2012 early 2013

Quote from chounim

nope, there was a time during 2nd generation, circa 2006-2011 when live singing was the norm.

lipsynching to prerecorded vocals was introduced by some music shows around late 2012 early 2013

that doesnt make my comment invalid.

Quote from fiascomangkunega

that doesnt make my comment invalid.

it does make it invalid, because kpop groups used to sing guinely live for most of the 2nd generation, in music shows.

in fact, even though lipsynching to prerecorded vocals was introduced at the beginning of the 3rd generation, it wasn't as dominant then as it is now. it is much easier to find live performances in music shows from 3rd generation than from 4th generation.

it is an increasing obsession with selling the illusion of perfection that led at to this point.

Quote from chounim

it does make it invalid, because kpop groups used to sing guinely live for most of the 2nd generation, in music shows.

in fact, even though lipsynching to prerecorded vocals was introduced at the beginning of the 3rd generation, it wasn't as dominant then as it is now. it is much easier to find live performances in music shows from 3rd generation than from 4th generation.

it is an increasing obsession with selling the illusion of perfection that led at to this point.

"pre recorded was introduced 3rd gen" That's totally invalid. even around 2009 they already lipsynced. Let's not being delusional here

Do you think this is live? (I just took random example,so no particularly target Apink)

if it's all camera work then damn those camera men and women!!!!

give them a raise!!!

Quote from fiascomangkunega

"pre recorded was introduced 3rd gen" That's totally invalid. even around 2009 they already lipsynced. Let's not being delusional here

there is a difference between lipsynching to the cd version and lipsynching to prerecorded vocals where performers record a live performance without dancing and then lipsynch to it while dancing after it's cleaned up. the latter is what most kpop groups do nowadays and that practice started at the beginning of 3rd generation.

for example, this is lipsynching to the cd version

while this is lipsynching to prerecorded vocals

and this is live

Quote from chounim

there is a difference between lipsynching to the cd version and lipsynching to prerecorded vocals where performers record a live performance without dancing and then lipsynch to it while dancing after it's cleaned up. the latter is what most kpop groups do nowadays and that practice started at the beginning of 3rd generation.

for example, this is lipsynching to the cd version

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while this is lipsynching to prerecorded vocals

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and this is live

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It's fine even if you keep making excuses to the point making it different for lip sync to cd, and lip sync to pre recorded (when both literally mean not singing live, at the moment).

All generations did that lip sync to the point in 2011 due to fact that before that year, lip syncing was heavily done in korean music scene (yes, including your precious gen 1, gen 2 whatever), a korean party proposed a lip sync ban bill. But if I may say something, pls be less delusional when defending our bias shall we?

https://www.allkpop.com/article/2011/05/liberty-forward-party-proposes-a-bill-to-ban-lip-and-hand-syncing-performances

The days of lip-syncing and hand-syncing may finally be coming to an end, as it was recently revealed that a bill for banning the two acts was presented to the Korean government. To clarify the bill proposed by the Liberty Forward Party., lip-syncing and hand-syncing are acts of mimicry, in which the artist pretends to be singing or playing an instrument. On May 13th, Senator Lee Myung Soo of the Forward Liberty Party reportedly submitted a Public Performance Act, which proposed that artists should not be allowed to lip-sync or hand-sync during commercial performances or broadcasts where the artists are given performance wages. In cases where lip-syncing and hand-syncing are unavoidable, it must be announced to the spectators beforehand that such acts will take place during their performance. Breaking this law should result in at least a year of jail time or a fine of at least $10,000 USD for negligence. Senator Lee stated, "In the past, viewers were able to watch a whole variety of different genres for performances including ballad, dance, and trot. These days, it's only dancing idol groups who are given the main focus. Due to the concentration of this particular genre, singers are trained more in their visuals rather than their singing ability."

He continued, "For example, at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, a cute little girl with physically appealing facial features became a hot topic for singing the opening anthem, but it was later discovered that there was actually another girl of the same age singing for her behind-the-scenes. Ever since this global embarrassment, China has been working on legislating a law for the prohibition of lip-syncing. Even in our country, many people buy expensive tickets to watch artists sing or play live, but artists who lip-sync or hand-sync make spectators lose trust, and also obstrucst the development of our music industry. We submitted this bill as a way to solve these kinds of problems." The bill has already drawn strongly divided views, as one netizen expressed, "It doesn't make sense that singers can take thousands of dollars just for lip-syncing at an event," while another netizen voiced out, "There are times when singers need to perform intense choreography, and it's the idol dances that are the core of the Hallyu Wave, so trying to prohibit this by law doesn't make sense." Source: My Daily via Daum (1), My Daily via Daum (2)

I think covid impacted the way groups perform nowadays. Before covid groups were repeating maybe two times max their shows because they didn’t have so much time to now they can do as much they want, at that point they don’t barely make have any mistakes, because they can re-record 718828 times, add how camera work affect choreographies.

Quote from fiascomangkunega

It's fine even if you keep making excuses to the point making it different for lip sync to cd, and lip sync to pre recorded (when both literally mean not singing live, at the moment).

All generations did that lip sync to the point in 2011 due to fact that before that year, lip syncing was heavily done in korean music scene (yes, including your precious gen 1, gen 2 whatever), a korean party proposed a lip sync ban bill. But if I may say something, pls be less delusional when defending our bias shall we?

https://www.allkpop.com/articl…hand-syncing-performances

The days of lip-syncing and hand-syncing may finally be coming to an end, as it was recently revealed that a bill for banning the two acts was presented to the Korean government. To clarify the bill proposed by the Liberty Forward Party., lip-syncing and hand-syncing are acts of mimicry, in which the artist pretends to be singing or playing an instrument. On May 13th, Senator Lee Myung Soo of the Forward Liberty Party reportedly submitted a Public Performance Act, which proposed that artists should not be allowed to lip-sync or hand-sync during commercial performances or broadcasts where the artists are given performance wages. In cases where lip-syncing and hand-syncing are unavoidable, it must be announced to the spectators beforehand that such acts will take place during their performance. Breaking this law should result in at least a year of jail time or a fine of at least $10,000 USD for negligence. Senator Lee stated, "In the past, viewers were able to watch a whole variety of different genres for performances including ballad, dance, and trot. These days, it's only dancing idol groups who are given the main focus. Due to the concentration of this particular genre, singers are trained more in their visuals rather than their singing ability." He continued, "For example, at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, a cute little girl with physically appealing facial features became a hot topic for singing the opening anthem, but it was later discovered that there was actually another girl of the same age singing for her behind-the-scenes. Ever since this global embarrassment, China has been working on legislating a law for the prohibition of lip-syncing. Even in our country, many people buy expensive tickets to watch artists sing or play live, but artists who lip-sync or hand-sync make spectators lose trust, and also obstrucst the development of our music industry. We submitted this bill as a way to solve these kinds of problems." The bill has already drawn strongly divided views, as one netizen expressed, "It doesn't make sense that singers can take thousands of dollars just for lip-syncing at an event," while another netizen voiced out, "There are times when singers need to perform intense choreography, and it's the idol dances that are the core of the Hallyu Wave, so trying to prohibit this by law doesn't make sense." Source: My Daily via Daum (1), My Daily via Daum (2)

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you're an edgy one aren't you? lol

saying that live singing was the norm during 2nd generation doesn't mean no one lipsynched lol, like i have literally shared a lipsynched performance from 2nd generation from my own "precious 2nd generation faves", so it is not like i am denying it.

next, it is not my fault that you don't know what "lipsynching to prerecorded vocals" is which made me try to explain it to you by showing you different example. no where did i even say that either of the two was better than the other. it is simply a fact that this practice (of lipsynching to precorded vocals instead of cds) started at the beginning of 3rd generation and bacame the norm right now.

finally, the whole thing about banning lipsynching in music shows was a hoax, idols started lipsynching after it more than they ever did before it, they just went from straight out lipsynching to cds to faking their live singing by recording it before hand and then lipsynching to it.

anyway, this is going no where so let's stop here.

Quote from chounim

you're an edgy one aren't you? lol

saying that live singing was the norm during 2nd generation doesn't mean no one lipsynched lol, like i have literally shared a lipsynched performance from 2nd generation from my own "precious 2nd generation faves", so it is not like i am denying it.

next, it is not my fault that you don't know what "lipsynching to prerecorded vocals" is which made me try to explain it to you by showing you different example. no where did i even say that either of the two was better than the other. it is simply a fact that this practice (of lipsynching to precorded vocals instead of cds) started at the beginning of 3rd generation and bacame the norm right now.

finally, the whole thing about banning lipsynching in music shows was a hoax, idols started lipsynching after it more than they ever did before it, they just went from straight out lipsynching to cds to faking their live singing by recording it before hand and then lipsynching to it.

anyway, this is going no where so let's stop here.

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I literally gave you link to a real news that in 2011 there was even a bill (yes, national level) proposed to ban lip syncing and you called me edgy, don't know the different of lip syncing to cd and to a pre recorded etc?

Man..

Your precious gen 1, gen 2 LIP SYNCed too. Deal with it. It won't kill you.

They are humans, they cannot jump on stage without their voice being shaky, that's just no humanly possible. Get it?