Do you think girl groups are outdoing boy groups in 4th gen?

Ethnic? What is that?

yes

It would seem so.

Definitely, more hit songs, good sales too

Top group will be gg from this gen I think.

Though bg can still do well, don’t think we’ve seen the best of txt enha, skz…

one look at gaon album chart for 2021 tells us that bgs are washing the ggs easily.

You said boy groups are outselling girl groups so how are girl groups outdoing boy groups?

If you prefer the concepts of girl groups then that’s a matter of taste and opinion really.

Quote from bbb988

I’m saying that the only part where girl groups lack is album sales, yet they’re improving fast with that. The area where boy groups lack is public hits, but they’re not improving in that area at all, they seem to be doing worse. How can girl groups be improving at every area yet boy groups can’t do the same?

Everyone is improving in both areas as the kpop fandom in general is getting bigger. As for public hits, what do you mean by public hits? Does public opinion really matter if it doesn’t translate into actual sales?

Quote from bbb988

I’m saying that the only part where girl groups lack is album sales, yet they’re improving fast with that. The area where boy groups lack is public hits, but they’re not improving in that area at all, they seem to be doing worse. How can girl groups be improving at every area yet boy groups can’t do the same?

Like in 3rd gen , there may be 3 girl groups with sales more than 100,000, but now there are like 6 or 7 groups with sales more than that. But no 4th gen boy groups can even get into Melon top 10, let alone outdo Exo, Bts, Seventeen?

Melon is literallt just one chart…

As for album sales for 2021. NCT 127, NCT Dream, TXT, Enhypen, Treasure, Ateez, Astro, etc etc have all sold minimum 300k+ an album.

Quote from zuzuhhaa

i think OPs point it that 4th gen girl groups are just doing in general at the moment, which isn't really wrong if you think about it. i can name a lot more recently debut successful girlgroups than boygroups. however, that does not mean im trying to cancel out the success of groups like ateez, stray kids, txt, enhypen etc.

I’m not saying they aren’t doing well. It’s just weird to say they’re outdoing boy groups.

Quote from bbb988

I’m saying that the only part where girl groups lack is album sales, yet they’re improving fast with that. The area where boy groups lack is public hits, but they’re not improving in that area at all, they seem to be doing worse. How can girl groups be improving at every area yet boy groups can’t do the same?

Like in 3rd gen , there may be 3 girl groups with sales more than 100,000, but now there are like 6 or 7 groups with sales more than that. But no 4th gen boy groups can even get into Melon top 10, let alone outdo Exo, Bts, Seventeen?

Considering Exo and seventeen didn’t get into the top 10 with their cbs last year either, no shit other bgs cant. Bg charting is relatively poor across the board but to say the 4th gen bgs aren’t improving there is actually just a lie. The bgs still clear in sales and Spotify streams

I have to kinda agree with this. Ggs are generally doing better than bgs overall currently

Boys groups are doing better in sales but doing worse in digitals over the years whiles girl groups are still doing good in digitals but also improving in album sales.

Quote from licoricebtch

Melon is literallt just one chart…

As for album sales for 2021. NCT 127, NCT Dream, TXT, Enhypen, Treasure, Ateez, Astro, etc etc have all sold minimum 300k+ an album.

I’m not saying they aren’t doing well. It’s just weird to say they’re outdoing boy groups.

Display More

nct and astro are 3rd gen tho idk why are they mentioned?

personally, girlgroups from 4th gen are completly outdoing their bg counterparts. from visuals to talents to concepts, everything, i find them way more interesting and appealing

based on success, I also agree the ggs are doing better because if we go by comparisons, both sides are improving their international streams and physicals, but bgs are doing worse than ever in korea while ggs are able to keep the success from the 2nd and 3rd gen. just like recently we got 4th ggs having more hits and outselling some older ggs, no 4th bg is able to outchart the 2nd/3rd gen bg releases from last year or even outsell them physically

Isn't that obvious? The top group of 4th gen in terms of Korean digitals is Aespa, IVE is doing the best on Spotify and ITZY on YT. BGs only sell well.

Girl groups are only washing boy groups in Korea, thanks to their digitals and gp recognition. Outside Korea, boy groups are the ones leading. Boy groups have better sales, bigger fandoms, more streams, better charting internationally. The only thing ggs are leading in is charting in Korea because internationally, they chart worse than bgs.

The only girl group which is actually doing great in digitals, sales and has a chance to grow more popular internationally is aespa. I don't see any other current 4th gen gg surpassing any of the top 4th gen bg in anything.

Speaking about music though, having in mind it's only two 4th gen bgs whose music I fully enjoy then yeah, ggs release the better music. But it's always been that way for me, even in third gen

I think it’s a matter of personal taste. I dont find any 4th gen gg interesting at all. Blackpink is the only interesting kpop gg for me.

Digital charting, in Korea — yes, this is being dominated by GG . But globally, it’s still BG based on Spotify streams, BB US/Japan even in Europe.

In physical sales, fandom size, people who know them outside Korea— it’s still boy groups’ world. I think gg market are mostly concentrated in Korea while it’s global for BG. This is the reason why BG usually last longer than GG. GP in Korea usually losts interest after 2-3 years & look for new /younger gg to support.

About outselling/outcharting 3rd gen, who can do that againts BTS? And BP did not even release any album yet for 2 yrs nor are they even active as a group. That opens up opportunities for new gg. But Enhypen /Straykids were able to become a million seller ( Gaon) as the only 4th gen to do it and only quite a few from 3rd gen were able to do it. EN as the onlt 4th gen to surpass 1 Million sales in Hanteo. In spotify , Skz and EN ranked 1st & 3rd on having the most monthly listeners from 4th Gen. Spotify is one of the ways to measure their relevance outside Korea.We are not even discussing BB, Oricon and other relevant charts in Europe.

Quote from 4d-maknae

personally, girlgroups from 4th gen are completly outdoing their bg counterparts. from visuals to talents to concepts, everything, i find them way more interesting and appealing

based on success, I also agree the ggs are doing better because if we go by comparisons, both sides are improving their international streams and physicals, but bgs are doing worse than ever in korea while ggs are able to keep the success from the 2nd and 3rd gen. just like recently we got 4th ggs having more hits and outselling some older ggs, no 4th bg is able to outchart the 2nd/3rd gen bg releases from last year or even outsell them physically

Quote from EnhypenHi

I think it’s a matter of personal taste. I dont find any 4th gen gg interesting at all. Blackpink is the only interesting kpop gg for me.

Digital charting, in Korea — yes, this is being dominated by GG . But globally, it’s still BG based on Spotify streams, BB US/Japan even in Europe.

In physical sales, fandom size, people who know them outside Korea— it’s still boy groups’ world. I think gg market are mostly concentrated in Korea while it’s global for BG. This is the reason why BG usually last longer than GG. GP in Korea usually losts interest after 2-3 years & look for new /younger gg to support.

About outselling/outcharting 3rd gen, who can do that againts BTS? And BP did not even release any album yet for 2 yrs nor are they even active as a group. That opens up opportunities for new gg. But Enhypen /Straykids were able to become a million seller ( Gaon) as the only 4th gen to do it and only quite a few from 3rd gen were able to do it. EN as the onlt 4th gen to surpass 1 Million sales in Hanteo. In spotify , Skz and EN ranked 1st & 3rd on having the most monthly listeners from 4th Gen. Spotify is one of the ways to measure their relevance outside Korea.We are not even discussing BB, Oricon and other relevant charts in Europe.

Display More

even if we take bts out of consideration (when i wrote that comment i did) none of 4th gen are outselling nct units or seventeen. exo sold about the same as skz and enhypen despite their hiatus. while all of them outcharted 4th gen bgs easily and even 2nd gen bgs that came back in 2021 did (shinee,highlight,2pm,2am)

you don't see the same happening with ggs. aespa outcharted all ggs in 2021, while stayc and ive had bigger hits that 3rd and 2nd gen ggs with the exception of oh my girl. aespa and itzy sold the best among ggs after twice. even if bp comes back, both groups are now top 4 best seller ggs. meanwhile bg top 5 rankings are still full of 3rd gen: bts, seventeen, nct 127, nct dream and nct.

And why do they need to outchart or outsell 3rd Gen BG? I think it only proves my point that boy groups last longer . And GP’s interest on GG will usually change after 2-3 years. Like top 10 best seller are all boygroups plus Twice. The topic is 4th gen GG outdoing 4th gen BG not 3rd gen vs 4th Gen. Even if 3rd gen BG are still doing well, it has nothing to do with 4th BG doing well too in comparison with 4th Gen GG. But I agree that aespa has a chance to do well internationally too and I dont even like them. Rest — lets see if they can chart outside Korea to see their relevance globally after a year or so.

Quote from 4d-maknae

even if we take bts out of consideration (when i wrote that comment i did) none of 4th gen are outselling nct units or seventeen. exo sold about the same as skz and enhypen despite their hiatus. while all of them outcharted 4th gen bgs easily and even 2nd gen bgs that came back in 2021 did (shinee,highlight,2pm,2am)

you don't see the same happening with ggs. aespa outcharted all ggs in 2021, while stayc and ive had bigger hits that 3rd and 2nd gen ggs with the exception of oh my girl. aespa and itzy sold the best among ggs after twice. even if bp comes back, both groups are now top 4 best seller ggs. meanwhile bg top 5 rankings are still full of 3rd gen: bts, seventeen, nct 127, nct dream and nct.

Where do bgs have bigger streams? Definitely not on yt. Ggs destroy bgs on yt. Are u all talking about bsides? Even on Spotify gg titles do better than bg titles.

Bgs don't have great longevity on Spotify global either.

Quote from EnhypenHi

And why do they need to outchart or outsell 3rd Gen BG? I think it only proves my point that boy groups last longer . And GP’s interest on GG will usually change after 2-3 years. Like top 10 best seller are all boygroups plus Twice. The topic is 4th gen GG outdoing 4th gen BG not 3rd gen vs 4th Gen. Even if 3rd gen BG are still doing well, it has nothing to do with 4th BG doing well too in comparison with 4th Gen GG. But I agree that aespa has a chance to do well internationally too and I dont even like them. Rest — lets see if they can chart outside Korea to see their relevance globally after a year or so.

like any bg outside of bts has any relevance globally lol

my point is that 4th gg are able to beat their direct competition: older ggs, while 4th gen bgs can't do that, and that means a lot when it comes to their success

nobody is expecting ggs to outsell bgs , that has never happened outside of snsd having the best selling album in 2011. but if they are doing better than the older groups, keeping alive the digital and cfs market, selling better physically each year, having it girls, etc while the bgs aren't keeping the digital and cfs market at all, are selling better than some older bgs but can't enter the top 5 best sellers, have no relevant idol in korea, etc that does mean the girls are outdoing the boys, in my opinion.

Aespa - yes but not the whole 4th Gen girl group.

Quote from SooYoung

GG are improving their Physicals

but BG aren't improving their digital

so yes 4th gen GG are doing better than BG

Hmm I can't really tell because I only follow GirlGroup in the 4th gen but my felling tell me yes

Well , at least 4th BG are more relevant than 4th GG globally. Why are we even talking about BTS? No one is even closer to them - not the GG or BG.

Again, proves my point that GG relevance will only last 2-3 yrs and another younger GG will beat them. It’s different for BG. Since they have bigger fandom globally, loyal supporters , they tend to last longer and build their career better. So my opinion, GG is better in Korea while globally it’s BG. Globally is bigger than Korea reason why they have bigger fandom & physical sales.

Quote from 4d-maknae

like any bg outside of bts has any relevance globally lol

my point is that 4th gg are able to beat their direct competition: older ggs, while 4th gen bgs can't do that, and that means a lot when it comes to their success

nobody is expecting ggs to outsell bgs , that has never happened outside of snsd having the best selling album in 2011. but if they are doing better than the older groups, keeping alive the digital and cfs market, selling better physically each year, having it girls, etc while the bgs aren't keeping the digital and cfs market at all, are selling better than some older bgs but can't enter the top 5 best sellers, have no relevant idol in korea, etc that does mean the girls are outdoing the boys, in my opinion.

YT is not organic due to ads. Looking at the likes are better. Overall total streams and monthly listeners in Spotify ,it is still boygroups. Other charting - BB, Oricon, Europe . Still BG.

Quote from atropos

Where do bgs have bigger streams? Definitely not on yt. Ggs destroy bgs on yt. Are u all talking about bsides? Even on Spotify gg titles do better than bg titles.

Bgs don't have great longevity on Spotify global either.

Quote from EnhypenHi

Aespa - yes but not the whole 4th Gen girl group.

not sure why they keep saying 4th gen gg are doing better than boy groups based on what? streams?

boygroups have outsold girl groups in albums by a LONG SHOT. which is what truly counts at the end of the day.

saying a girlgroup selling 100k is really sad when these new boygroups are hitting 300k, 400k, 600k, 1million albums….

And i also dont understand the obession with K-charting ( melon in particular) like it’s the beginning & end of everything. It’s just one platform that no one else cares if you are not Korean. Who cares if GP in Korea do not like BG in general except BTS? All BG core fandom are most likely outside Korea anyways . So okay - Korea belongs to GG while the rest of the world to BG . 😂

Quote from EnhypenHi

YT is not organic due to ads. Looking at the likes are better. Overall total streams and monthly listeners in Spotify ,it is still boygroups. Other charting - BB, Oricon, Europe . Still BG.

Lol. Even without ads many ggs do better on yt. This ad argument is stupid because after some weeks the ads stop and we can see the real longevity of the songs. BB and oricon album charts? I think we established that bgs do well in album sales and also the foreign album charting charting is pretty much just hybe bgs? Now if we again consider song charts bgs fall off.

Quote from EnhypenHi

And i also dont understand the obession with K-charting ( melon in particular) like it’s the beginning & end of everything. It’s just one platform that no one else cares if you are not Korean. Who cares if GP in Korea do not like BG in general except BTS? All BG core fandom are most likely outside Korea anyways . So okay - Korea belongs to GG while the rest of the world to BG . 😂

It’s kinda stupid to ignore Korea when talking about group’s relevancy when it’s still kpop biggest market.

different strokes for different folks...

at the end of the day the only thing that really matters is how much $$$ ends up in your bank account

gg stans are so strange.. they say that it's okay for girl groups to have less sales while claiming that girl groups are still bigger than boy groups because sales is their weakness but at the same time, they use the fact boy groups' weakness is digitals as argument that girl groups are doing better.

If your theory is that the top groups should be equally good at sales and digitals then that means neither boy groups nor girl groups are leading.

Girl groups are doing better only in Korea. Global popularity = multiple countries popularity > one country popularity. So yeah, that one is won by boy groups. I don't know why people tried to use youtube as metrics when metrics is very fandom driven + it has usage of ads. Spotify is the platform where most people listen to music nowadays and which shows actual relevance.

Boy groups have better charting internationally (on charts reflecting both sales and digitals), more songs blowing up, more streams, followers and listeners on Spotify, more sales, bigger fandoms, are generally more known among the kpop community itself.

While girl groups only have better digitals but only in Korea and better youtube views (if you want to use views as metrics so bad)