Why do people expect KPOP rappers to be like Western rappers?

this argument goes

ok but the fact of the matter is a lot of kpop idol rappers that are even a smidge serious ASPIRE to be like american rappers...literally copy them, steal their whole flows, dress up like them and put in black hairstyles and make a mockery of the whole thing. i don't want them to be like western rappers... i'd rather they be original and add something new. but most of them cannot. just like actual khip hop artists. its all a copy paste of the trends.

Sure they are inspired by great rappers like Tupac, Eminem, 50cent etc. But they are adding their own spice to it as well. It's like even though rock music is originated in US. Jrock is different from western rock and have it's own uniqueness.

Also lots of idols are streetcasted. U can't expect Eminem from random teenager on the street tho. But at least they're getting better that's good. SM has at least have Mark & Giselle now.

I think because they copy black artists and everything about them like how they dress, the hair styles, nothing is really original and they don’t write their songs so people tend to start to compare but some k-rappers are really good

The Korean rap scene is both cringe and problematic. Every time they talk about rap it’s extremely stereotypical.

Quote from billie8eilish

I think because they copy black artists and everything about them like how they dress, the hair styles, nothing is really original and they don’t write their songs so people tend to start to compare but some k-rappers are really good

i don't really understand they copy their clothing & stuff. Haven't seen Soeyon wear something like Cardi B wears.

I don't expect them to be exactly like western rappers because the norms are different, but I do expect them to be competent at least in their delivery, on the id0l rapper side, if they didn't write their own rhymes. If you can't covey the rap in a way that is engaging, just don't.

There are western MCs who can rap over a beat that isn't as hot and breathe life into it, but I can't say that is something everybody can do.

If Hip-Hop/Rap is what "a lot" of people are listening to in South Korea, I think more SK-Hip-Hop/Rap artists and groups should have a mainstream platform at least half as comparable to what id0ls have outside of the "contestant shows"..especially if there is good demand. I think that could possibly solve the issue of more competent rappers being heard and seen.

Quote from DMV2DMZ

I don't expect them to be exactly like western rappers because the norms are different, but I do expect them to be competent at least in their delivery, on the id0l rapper side, if they didn't write their own rhymes. If you can't covey the rap in a way that is engaging, just don't.

There are western MCs who can rap over a beat that isn't as hot and breathe life into it, but I can't say that is something everybody can do.

If Hip-Hop/Rap is what "a lot" of people are listening to in South Korea, I think more SK-Hip-Hop/Rap artists and groups should have a mainstream platform at least half as comparable to what id0ls have outside of the "contestant shows"..especially if there is good demand. I think that could possibly solve the issue of more competent rappers being heard and seen.

Watched MixNine & YG Treasure box, there are actully pretty good rappers out there in Korea. But their persona & image doesn't really fit into idol groups unfortunately. Rappers prefer artistic freedom but when they're in a group they have to follow others. That's why most legit rappers don't get in idol groups.

Quote from jinaland

i don't really understand they copy their clothing & stuff. Haven't seen Soeyon wear something like Cardi B wears.

Yes and I get that but she has culture appropriated and doesn’t really write a lot her music and the most of the people who do are black so people tend to compare

Quote from billie8eilish

Yes and I get that but she has culture appropriated and doesn’t really write a lot her music and the most of the people who do are black so people tend to compare

she writes all her stuff tho, at least all her raps and I guess her CA wasn't about clothing it was using African instruments in their song I guess

Quote from jinaland

Watched MixNine & YG Treasure box, there are actully pretty good rappers out there in Korea. But their persona & image doesn't really fit into idol groups unfortunately. Rappers prefer artistic freedom but when they're in a group they have to follow others. That's why most legit rappers don't get in idol groups.

That is exactly why at least a segment of a show if not a full-show for Hip-Hop/Rap could be useful. In the US there once was Rap City and Yo! MTV Raps that had this niche.

Quote from DMV2DMZ

That is exactly why at least a segment of a show if not a full-show for Hip-Hop/Rap could be useful. In the US there once was Rap City and Yo! MTV Raps that had this niche.

I think Show Me The Money & Unpretty Rapstar are quite popular I guess. Some idol rappers participate tho. Bobby of IKON has won before. Since kpop is more popular internationally than any korean music. People tend to talk morea about idol rappers.

I agree 100% lol

Quote from jinaland

I think Show Me The Money & Unpretty Rapstar are quite popular I guess. Some idol rappers participate tho. Bobby of IKON has won before. Since kpop is more popular internationally than any korean music. People tend to talk morea about idol rappers.

Those shows are contestant driven. I'm talking more about an artist/interview driven show. You know what? They wouldn't even need to do it on national TV. It could easily happen via a podcast with video episodes posted to Youtube.

I think it's not really fair to compare western rappers to k-idol rappers. This is considering the fact that most idol rappers have no actual passion for the genre and were just put in the rapper position because they suck at singing.

I don't think kpop singers are trying to be Mariah Carrey.. But on the other hand kpop rappers are definitely trying to be western rappers.. Styling, flow jacking, hand gestures, n in khiphop they blalant ly copy what hiphop stars do, like a Bad imitation of actual western rappers..

Quote from superyeah

Soyeon has written a lot of her music. Other than using African instruments in one of the (G)I-DLE's performances, what else did she do? Also, people use traditional instruments in music all the time. We've seen it in western songs that use traditional Asian instruments; there's no outrage or controversy about that. Music tends to take inspiration from different sources throughout the world.

didn’t know that but that is so cool

But yeah we shouldn't expect that, esp idol rappers, they don't have much freedom I guess

It's such a pretentious argument, it always makes me roll my eyes.

They have no problem stanning vocalists that can barely sing live, they have no problem giving slack for lacking dancers, they have no problem stanning for visuals and "personality" but when it comes to rappers they go all like hold on I suddenly decided to have high and unrealistic standards

Quote from chounim

It's such a pretentious argument, it always makes me roll my eyes.

They have no problem stanning vocalists that can barely sing live, they have no problem giving slack for lacking dancers, they have no problem stanning for visuals and "personality" but when it comes to rappers they go all like hold on I suddenly decided to have high and unrealistic standards

they are not even giving professional criticism just making fun of them, i don't really like that attitude

Quote from keaji

Yeah, i know that, but that is my point.

Like OP said, no one expect Mariah Carey or excelent rapper, but when making a group and later the song for certain group they should have in mind the capabilities of all members. How well can they sing or rap. And make a song based on that.

Groups are not soloists for a reason, every member contributes to it some part and bring something to it. They are good at different areas, but not excellent. And i don't think there is anything wrong with that.

idk people are weird. They say rapper position doesn't need in kpop groups but says ATEEZ has only 2 rappers they need more rappers O_o

I don't like rap parts in general. Some perfectly good songs get ruined because of an *insert* rap part that ruins the flow.

Rap songs are fine. But not all songs need to have an *insert* rap part.

Quote from jinaland

they are not even giving professional criticism just making fun of them, i don't really like that attitude

Like someone in this same thread barely knew anything about Soyeon but they still accused her of 1- not writing her own lyrics and 2- CAing black artists. Two things that are not true.

At this point it seems like these people hate on kpop rappers on principle, just because they're kpop rappers (not to say just because they're Korean) .

There's also this misconception that most kpop rappers don't write their own rap, it's actually the opposite. But when you point that out they suddenly change the goalposts and suddenly writing your own lyrics no longer matters (even though it was previously a deciding factor of whether you get considered a real rapper anyway)

Anyway, to me, if the people who complain about kpop rappers standards don't stan competent vocalists and competent dancers, they have no write to trash kpop rappers or demand high standards from them. No sweetheart, you don't get to choose which aspect of being an idol should have standards and which aspects are allowed to be mediocre.

Quote from keaji

I know...

Ateez has 2 rappers, with their own individual styles that contribute to a song a great part. And when the song has a need of more rap parts, there is a lot of other members that can also cover those parts. From what i know Seonghwa was even supposed to have a rapper position and can rap enough to cover those parts, and probably some others also, i think that i even saw Jongho being pretty good at rap.
That what i am trying to say, it's good to have members that can cover different areas, depending on what the song needs and what kind of style is the group going for.

But for groups that are more vocal based it's good imo if the rapper can also sing enough to cover at least some easy parts of the song, so that every song doesn't need to have a rap part or is at least more 'melodic rap part'.

Kpop groups are composed of people that each bring something to it and don't need to all be Eminem or Mariah Carey.

Display More

i understand what u mean but idk if the member will be sub vocalist he/she might be overshadowed by the best singer in his/her group so having main & lead rapper as a position might give them more spotlight I guess, but unfortunately it gives bad spotlight I guess since they are constantly bashed by western kpop fans

Quote from chounim

Like someone in this same thread barely knew anything about Soyeon but they still accused her of 1- not writing her own lyrics and 2- CAing black artists. Two things that are not true.

At this point it seems like these people hate on kpop rappers on principle, just because they're kpop rappers (not to say just because they're Korean) .

There's also this misconception that most kpop rappers don't write their own rap, it's actually the opposite. But when you point that out they suddenly change the goalposts and suddenly writing your own lyrics no longer matters (even though it was previously a deciding factor of whether you get considered a real rapper anyway)

Anyway, to me, if the people who complain about kpop rappers standards don't stan competent vocalists and competent dancers, they have no write to trash kpop rappers or demand high standards from them. No sweetheart, you don't get to choose which aspect of being an idol should have standards and which aspects are allowed to be mediocre.

yeah, more than rapping i think people should focus more on vocal. Live singing is almost extinct now

Quote from keaji

Yeah, the positions are there that each member has his/hers own place within the group.

I think kpop fans need to understand that if they want to 'stan' the worlds best rapper or singer, they should look elsewhere :D Those guys and girls in the groups are all very good at what they are doing and are giving their everything into it for the whole group to function. Everybody has his/hers own part in the group and contributes to the whole performance. Kpop is music, but it's also more than that, it's the whole performance and visual aspect also.

(With what i meant when i said not every song needs rap part: i meant the producing team or company, that sometimes forcefully put some adlibs or rap parts, that seem a bit off and don't really go well with the rest of the song)

yeah some rap parts are unnecessary idk maybe they want some spice to the song :D

lol, again with "k-rappers this / k-rappers that"

I tell you, some of you are obsessed when it comes to rap and that's completely fine,but at the same time , some of you are good only to criticize and stereotype the rappers from other countries, in this case South Korea, without giving a single constructive critic.

If you're on of the above category of people, don't throw a fuss when other people don't give a shit about rap and rappers (not even Western ones) and will never bother to understand the complexities of the genre and brush it off as "music where people brag about money, fucking bitches and wet ass pussies".

The best thing about Kpop rap is that it DOESNT sound like Western rap, at least what passes for rap right now in the US.

Kpop rap sounds nothing like this and that's a very good thing lol

Kpop rappers dont mumble with autotune cranked up so high you cant even understand what the fudge they're talking about.

Kpop rappers have that half singing, half rapping lyrical flow that is super catchy and is more true to the spirit of original rap than what's going on in the US these days.

Quote from keaji

I know, like JYP sometimes did (no shade), but he sometimes put some english talking parts into songs, i was like: whyyy, it doesn't belong here :D

i think it's stylistic choice :D

Quote from Parthjae

I don't think kpop singers are trying to be Mariah Carrey.. But on the other hand kpop rappers are definitely trying to be western rappers.. Styling, flow jacking, hand gestures, n in khiphop they blalant ly copy what hiphop stars do, like a Bad imitation of actual western rappers..

Uh wut?

What Kpop rapper actually sounds like this autotuned crap?

Kpop rappers actually have flow and delivery, you can actually understand the words comin out of their mouths, these Korean boys and girls growing up in a completely different culture 5000 miles away are truer to the spirit of rap than locals nowadays.

Compare the above "rap" with SKZ rapline.

Which rap song pays homage to the classics like Rapper's Delight, and which rap song is an insult to everything the early rap pioneers built?

Quote from keaji

Who on this thread criticized the rappers? :D I don't think any of the posts here criticized the rappers :) We discussed about how kpop groups are composed out of different individuals that each contributes to the group in his/hers own way

It's more of a general comment regarding all the rappers threads I've seen recently. A lot of people are just complaining non-stop.

Bad rappers are bad rappers. Doesn’t matter what country they come from. If you suck, you suck

Aint nobody wants them to be Eminem. That bar would be set very high. The problem is that the vast majority of them cant even be 5% of Eminem. While I would say there definitely are quite a few people who may be at least 5% of Mariah Carrey.

Rap was and always will be considered a genre that fans have a very strong affection towards because its designed to be way more personal and competitive than most other music genres are. It also has way more rigid rules than other music genres for you to even be able to call yourself a rapper. Rap isnt and never was made the same way other music is and thats why its treated so much different. And at the end of the day if you copy rap to the bone why should you suddenly be measured on way different metrics just because you are a kpop idol? Either have the guts to copy everything and then be judged accordingly or just stop copying rap altogether. No one forces the kpop agencies to do it.

Quote from ohohcollinBB

Aint nobody wants them to be Eminem. That bar would be set very high. The problem is that the vast majority of them cant even be 5% of Eminem. While I would say there definitely are quite a few people who may be at least 5% of Mariah Carrey.

Rap was and always will be considered a genre that fans have a very strong affection towards because its designed to be way more personal and competitive than most other music genres are. It also has way more rigid rules than other music genres for you to even be able to call yourself a rapper. Rap isnt and never was made the same way other music is and thats why its treated so much different. And at the end of the day if you copy rap to the bone why should you suddenly be measured on way different metrics just because you are a kpop idol? Either have the guts to copy everything and then be judged accordingly or just stop copying rap altogether. No one forces the kpop agencies to do it.

mumble rap should stop too

Quote from jinaland

mumble rap should stop too

Maybe stop compressing a genre with a rich history that spans decades into what happens the last 2-3 years? You guys are suddenly acting like the only thing rap is and always was is mumble rap. Tons of respected hip hop artists with an acclaimed discography would rather die than put out mumble rap, I can tell you that much. Its like saying Justin Biebers Baby is what pop music is while there where people like Michael Jackson putting out much better stuff. Im fucking tired of the "bUt MuMbLe RaP" argument from people who never even appreciated what rap ever was ro begin with.