Hybe's policy of competing its acts keeps it from having a dominant act

    There is the famous incident of Thelma and Louise, where both Geena Davis and Susan Sarandon were both the main characters.


    The correct response was giving both of them leading actress awards, since it was impossible to discern who did better.


    However the regulations of the Academy Awards required only one person could win that award so it went to Jodie Foster, in The Silence of Lambs, I think.


    ===


    Bang seems to be in the school of making everyone compete.


    Although New Jeans had taken the dominant position in 2023, ahead of everyone else,


    Bang wanted to promote Le Sserafim, which is under his direct control, to show that he could also run a girl group.


    And now Illit is making grounds, so three acts.


    Bang had txt to succeed BTS, but he created Enhypen, and now TWS, although under Pledis , has become the boy act with the most success in Melon. Although it never won #1 in there thanks to Bibi, it has staying power so if it can last in the top 10 until summertime, it will probably win the yearly #1 there.


    It might be good short term, but such policy precludes a clear leader from arising.


    To do huge tours you do need a clear leader, not a bunch of middling acts.


    It is kind of like the Japanese policy of making an act which should NOT stand out above all other acts in the company, like what Johnny's did to SMAP, which was bigger than all the acts combined in the rest of Johnny's and was cut down, leading it to its breakdown with no possibility of a reunion since Kimura Takuya is still loyal to the family who owned Johnny's, or whatever it is called now.


    Such policy by Johnny's led Japanese pop to be conquered by KPop, and also folks like Yonezu Kenshi. I won't even get into the ubiquitous 47 acts and -zaka acts of Akimoto Yasushi.


    Bang is doing the same thing to his acts. A bunch of middling acts, not really dominating, and therefore less relevant as far as the world is concerned.


    The greatest beneficiary of all of these seems to be the long time sworn enemy of KPop, Lee Jieun, who only made around $8.5 million last year in the latest financial statement released by Edam since she spent most of 2023 filming the show with Park Bogum. However, since she is doing the largest tour of everyone from Korea in this year, her income is expected to increase very significantly in 2024 , making her the individual with largest income in KPop (excluding people like JYP), again after 2017. She is also likely to re-claim the #1 position in Gallup as well, despite of being crushed by Bibi and her composer Jang Kiha.


    That is all because of Bang's policy of making its acts fight among each other.


    Because of Bang pulling a Fifty Fifty to NewJeans, it might lose its chance to conquer the world, as LeSserafim and now Iillit will be on its backs, holding it down while the Senior singer is smiling, seeing that her stranglehold on KPop will be secure at least for the rest of the decade.

    This is partly true, but it seems to me that the main factor is the lack of a strong fandom among the artists. BTS, BlackPink, Twice, Seventeen and others have been growing their fandoms for many years, thanks to which they have a very strong fan base capable of filling huge stadiums and spending years on tours. The problem with modern groups is that they do not have a fandom scale; in voting they are usually much inferior to 3rd generation groups against the backdrop of such phenomenal success on the charts. And now, in terms of the number of groups, today you support Le Sseafim, which is trendy, tomorrow the debut of NewJeans and now this is your ultimate group, and interest in Le Sserafim drops, then the debut of Illit and you no longer know who to actively support. I think this is the main problem that Hybe is simply not trying to create a strong fandom like BTS, he wants trendy music for the mass listener.

    It's honestly kind of smart.

    Not everyone likes Le Sserafim's music, but they might like New Jeans' songs better.

    They target different audiences (for the most part, I find ILLIT's song to sound similar to New Jeans, but maybe that'll change in the future).

    Maybe it might bite them in the butt in the future, but for now, it is a good strategy if the company has the time and money to do this. Having different subsidiaries helps with that.

    illit isn't trending the way newjeans did at least in korea

    the song? yeah but not the members.

    and it's too early to say who's where

    4th leaders started touring only recently and it will take another 2 years to determine who's the final boss at the top. It took bp 4 years to do it bc 2020 was their year with selling the first 1m and etc

    Ive wanted to pull newjeans with 3 single + engllish single and flopped failing to enter melon within hours and it took like a month to finally get #1 and there was no competition. Though their tour seems successful. Let's see how nj will do


    although i don't really consider illit baemon or teddy's new gg 5th gen, that just doesn't feel right.

    Quote from doieverse

    It's honestly kind of smart.

    Not everyone likes Le Sserafim's music, but they might like New Jeans' songs better.

    They target different audiences (for the most part, I find ILLIT's song to sound similar to New Jeans, but maybe that'll change in the future).

    Maybe it might bite them in the butt in the future, but for now, it is a good strategy if the company has the time and money to do this. Having different subsidiaries helps with that.

    They have different markets. Illit - tweens and younger teens. NJ - midteens and older teens. Lsf - adults.


    Just like a car manufacturer will have different models of cars.


    In 2 years time, they will debut NJ version 3 to target the next batch of tweens.

    I also think its smart from HYBE point of view(besides all of those already written above). There will be no group from Hybe( beside BTS) would have any advantage on contract negotiation since they have alot of successful act that will keep them afloat.

    I think its partially pretty dumb. Imagine he did the same thing with BTS, then there would have been no BTS. Imagine SM did the same thing to SNSD or YG to BP. Dumb right? There must ALWAYS be a dominant act otherwise that dominant act will come from somewhere else and you will be standing there with mediocre success groups. It's not even that more profitable in the end.


    The dominant act should always be pushed the most and in priority to other smaller acts to allow the biggest possible expansion of that act.

    And yes below that, opportunities shall be given to as much acts as possible. And the company should try to keep as many act as possible shiny and alive. But not at the expanse of the potential of a dominant act. That's literaly suicidal.


    True potential is rare and it’s not easy to manufacture it, as such it should be pushed as much as possible when it appears. Because it's a rare thing to behold and without the right push and the right timing, it can go to waste. Or be diminished.


    So this Hybe politics is just stupid and annoying. And Im not liking this BSY/Hybe saturation of the market. There should be as many indepedent compagnies as possible each trying their BEST to compete. Not being held back by some greedy egotic business man.

    Quote from rain07

    I also think its smart from HYBE point of view(besides all of those already written above). There will be no group from Hybe( beside BTS) would have any advantage on contract negotiation since they have alot of successful act that will keep them afloat.

    Basically, the SM approach. Never let the group get bigger than the brand (to the point where it ultimately ended up hurting their brand imo). We'll see if HYBE really want to/can keep NewJeans from doing that tho.

    Bang Pd's involvement with Illit seems to me to be more related to supporting his so-called idea bank Kim Tae-ho who is both Belift's ceo and Hybe's chief operating officer. Probably a name few international fans know but he's way more influential at hybe than Min Heejin for example. Also says a lot more controversial stuff lol

    Quote from TPHF

    Bang Pd's involvement with Illit seems to me to be more related to supporting his so-called idea bank Kim Tae-ho who is both Belift's ceo and Hybe's chief operating officer. Probably a name few international fans know but he's way more influential at hybe than Min Heejin for example. Also says a lot more controversial stuff lol

    Omg, so you mean there is a sort of competition between Tae-ho and MHJ to determine the best 'creative director' potential/abilities?


    I thought that struggle was going on between MHJ and BSY :eyes:.

    Quote from Tatiana1820

    Omg, so you mean there is a sort of competition between Tae-ho and MHJ to determine the best 'creative director' potential/abilities?


    I thought that struggle was going on between MHJ and BSY :eyes:.

    Who knows. Only thing I've heard from a somewhat reliable korean youtuber is that people working at belift don't like their work being compared or credited to artists at another hybe label. In the end creatives always yearn to be recognized.


    Kim Tae-ho definitely has the creditentials to go head to head with MHJ though. He was the ceo for Weverse (stepped down from this role to focus on Belift), set up BTS's The City project, was involved with their contract negotiations, has held (controversial) speeches at the National Assembly, and has the 5th biggest salary at hybe. Got into a lot of shit as well when he asked the government for clarity about BTS's military service in 2022.


    But it will always be ironic to me when people say MHJ doesn't want Hybe to be involved in any way with her work when she basically created the whole Hybe brand identity alongside people such as Kim Tae-ho. A more accurate representation of hybe's current situation is that every label competes to receive bigger investment from hybe by bringing better results to the table. That's how these company structures normally work.

    Quote from K-PL

    They have different markets. Illit - tweens and younger teens. NJ - midteens and older teens. Lsf - adults.


    Just like a car manufacturer will have different models of cars.


    In 2 years time, they will debut NJ version 3 to target the next batch of tweens.

    Ooohh yes, that makes sense why Illit and New Jeans are different. I just went by the sounds.

    Quote from Karl-III

    This is partly true, but it seems to me that the main factor is the lack of a strong fandom among the artists. BTS, BlackPink, Twice, Seventeen and others have been growing their fandoms for many years, thanks to which they have a very strong fan base capable of filling huge stadiums and spending years on tours. The problem with modern groups is that they do not have a fandom scale; in voting they are usually much inferior to 3rd generation groups against the backdrop of such phenomenal success on the charts. And now, in terms of the number of groups, today you support Le Sseafim, which is trendy, tomorrow the debut of NewJeans and now this is your ultimate group, and interest in Le Sserafim drops, then the debut of Illit and you no longer know who to actively support. I think this is the main problem that Hybe is simply not trying to create a strong fandom like BTS, he wants trendy music for the mass listener.

    Which is why companies always had terms debuting groups. F(x) was debuted a year after SNSD and their fandoms frequently clashed, and so companies, from then, rarely had more than a girl group and at most two boy groups at any given time, older acts mostly left to pend for themselves.


    JYP had 4 girl groups, Twice, NiziU in Japan, Itzy and NMixx, and the latter two did not do too well.


    And now Hybe has 3 boy groups, not counting BTS and SVT, and 3 girl groups, attacking a similar fanbase. Which leads to the supporters not being able to support only one act at a time.

    Quote from doieverse

    It's honestly kind of smart.

    Not everyone likes Le Sserafim's music, but they might like New Jeans' songs better.

    They target different audiences (for the most part, I find ILLIT's song to sound similar to New Jeans, but maybe that'll change in the future).

    Maybe it might bite them in the butt in the future, but for now, it is a good strategy if the company has the time and money to do this. Having different subsidiaries helps with that.

    The acts are of similar ages, and they compete for the same demographic. Carving up the limited pie into 3 pieces

    Quote from redcurtain

    Basically, the SM approach. Never let the group get bigger than the brand (to the point where it ultimately ended up hurting their brand imo). We'll see if HYBE really want to/can keep NewJeans from doing that tho.

    Ouch.. it is not looking good for them if that's the case lol but I doubt Hybe will be as extreme as SM.

    ~ Retired exol, don't ask me about that group. ~

    Given Bang's behavior and his questionable attitude towards BTS and now New Jeans, it seems that Bang is jealous of his own acts, since he wants to be credited for all.


    Its sink or swim attitude is now making all acts sink

    Well, not too many people watched R U Next and the GP is now learning who is who so it will take time for the members to build their own following


    But it is true that too many of them at one time does bring a quick saturation


    In today's world an act should be touring Asia around 1 1/2 years after debut, and the world maybe 2 1/2 years after debut, but only aespa and IVE have done that .

    Quote from doieverse

    Could be.

    Like I said, it might bite them in the butt in the future.

    I think they are safe as long as the groups' promotions don't overlap.

    Already kind of overlapping since NJ's comeback had to be delayed to wait for Illit's debut


    3 ggs in 1 year only means each act only has the window of opportunity for 4 months

    Quote from K-PL

    They have different markets. Illit - tweens and younger teens. NJ - midteens and older teens. Lsf - adults.


    Just like a car manufacturer will have different models of cars.


    In 2 years time, they will debut NJ version 3 to target the next batch of tweens.

    Eunchae is younger than 2 of Illit members. So that argument does not stand


    In fact


    Birth years of the members


    LS - 1998(veteran), 2000(veteran), 2001, 2003 and 2006

    NJ - 2004, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2008

    Illit - 2004, 2004, 2004, 2007 and 2008


    Illit is actually older than NJ. Former member Yongseo is 2005, so it would have made the group even older


    So LS is slightly older but they are for all practical purposes of the same age

    Quote from WhyKnock

    Bang had txt to succeed BTS, but he created Enhypen, and now TWS, although under Pledis , has become the boy act with the most success in Melon. Although it never won #1 in there thanks to Bibi, it has staying power so if it can last in the top 10 until summertime, it will probably win the yearly #1 there.

    Sorry to butt in but TWS’ concept is created by Han Sung Soo (Pledis founder) before acquisition and Hybe just started to join later in 2022 and it’s not even Bang PD


    Plus TWS songs mainly made by Bumzu under the name Wasurenai & Prismfilter (music producer group founded by Bumzu). Btw Bumzu has been Pledis’ main producer and he is the one who taught Woozi how to compose songs since predebut. He has been producing Pledis Boyz (Pledis new bg name) songs years before too


    What I mean is that sure LSF ILLIT ENHYPEN were created by Bang PD but Pledis is pretty much self sustain and have their own staffs, crews and professionals for years. It’s kinda unfair to label them as if they’re made by Hybe and successful because of Bang PD


    Note: Pledis groups always have successful debut song (Even NUEST’s debut song Face hit 50M in 2012 when streaming culture hadn’t been founded and surpassing Exo)


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    Horanghae:p



    HSS has more autonomy about running Pledis but in the end he still has to answer to Bang.


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    Bang considers Seventeen as being HIS idols, so when TWS gains more traction he will do the same with its members as well.

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    Edited once, last by WhyKnock ().

    Quote from WhyKnock

    HSS has more autonomy about running Pledis but in the end he still has to answer to Bang.

    He’s still the producer tho?? I can’t understand the obsession to refuse giving Pledis credits when it’s due and always act like every success they’ve gotten must be credited to Bang PD. Just like how Seventeen would still be the top bg right now even without the meddlement of Hybe


    If evey groups under Hybe is guaranteed for success then what about Fromis 9 and BND who chart much lower than TWS even though they debuted last year? Or since they aren’t successful enough thus they arent the children of Bang PD?

    Horanghae:p



    Quote from Neurotic02

    He’s still the producer tho?? I can’t understand the obsession to refuse giving Pledis credits when it’s due and always act like every success they’ve gotten must be credited to Bang PD. Just like how Seventeen would still be the top bg right now even without the meddlement of Hybe


    If evey groups under Hybe is guaranteed for success then what about Fromis 9 and BND who chart much lower than TWS even though they debuted last year? Or since they aren’t successful enough thus they arent the children of Bang PD?



    Why are you engaging Yknock?


    He doesn't actually care, he has his dumb talking point that will escue reality if it doesn't fit his narrative.


    He's not gonna go "oh my bad" he's just gonna try and twist any point where he's wrong into him being correct.

    I've been thinking the same since the announcement of Illit, I believe this was the talk of all Kr forums as well. The reason why Hybe groups/Newjeans will NEVER have half of a strong fanbase like big gen3 groups is the overlap. Imagine if I am a new fan in my tween that missed the legendary debut era of Newjeans, I'd rather buy the Illit album instead. At least LSF and Newjeans have very different approach and styling, but with the Illit debut and their suprisingly high number in sales/streams, it seems like Bang wouldn't want another female BTS, especially when he has almost no creative credit on their success. I'm pretty sure there are an ongoing beef between Bang and MHJ. Bang failed to surpass NJ with LSF and now he want a re-run and will focus entirely on Illit. That will limited LSF options in the future and hold back NJs development significantly as well. This only happens in Hybe. If SM and YG done the same thing with SNSD and BP, these two will never reach half the achievements they have now.

    Quote from Fluffers

    Why are you engaging Yknock?


    He doesn't actually care, he has his dumb talking point that will escue reality if it doesn't fit his narrative.


    He's not gonna go "oh my bad" he's just gonna try and twist any point where he's wrong into him being correct.

    Good to know then. But my point still stands. Ppl should stop obsessing over Bang PD like he some kind of messiah and licking his feet

    Horanghae:p



    Quote from Tatiana1820

    Omg, so you mean there is a sort of competition between Tae-ho and MHJ to determine the best 'creative director' potential/abilities?


    I thought that struggle was going on between MHJ and BSY :eyes:.

    It just gets more complicated. It was between MHJ and Bang's staff and now Taeho jumps in , adding to the chaos

    It does not help that Bang has the sink-or-swim attitude. At least JYP does make the final decision and chooses what to push, but Bang does not do that

    Quote from Neurotic02

    He’s still the producer tho?? I can’t understand the obsession to refuse giving Pledis credits when it’s due and always act like every success they’ve gotten must be credited to Bang PD. Just like how Seventeen would still be the top bg right now even without the meddlement of Hybe


    If evey groups under Hybe is guaranteed for success then what about Fromis 9 and BND who chart much lower than TWS even though they debuted last year? Or since they aren’t successful enough thus they arent the children of Bang PD?

    Because they did not rise high fast enough . BND is Zico's baby and will be run according to Zico's whims but if it doesn't go places it will receive the GFriend treatment. After all, Block B, Zico's group, was never that popular, with the members more than the sum of the group.


    F9 was always treated as a stepchild . SVT would also have received the GFriend treatment if it did not grow big enough.

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