I actually like how 4th gen girl group popularity is evenly spread out across all the big markets

that's actually so interesting, thanks for pointing that out. it does make me happy to see it too

Quote from Blossomin88

4th gen girl groups each have their own market they totally own.

Quote from Blossomin88

Japan:

Lsf

About that

Quote from YamaChwan

About that

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Oh I know seeing those lists being just full of twice makes you cry a little

During 3rd gen’s hey day, Twice and BP did not dominate all.. Twice was strong in Japan and BP in the west (and most parts of the world). Both groups are strong in Korea though, with Twice having a slight edge. Of course now Twice and BP are well known by most kpop fans anywhere.

Stray Kids: Europe

Quote from Blossomin88

We will wait till they have their sales there first after their jp released

Huh? Your criteria is already arbitrary, and this goalpost is no different. NewJeans, by far, have the best performing songs digitally in Japan, amongst their peers. They've already been invited and performed at Summer Sonic, and their stage was so popular that the festival staff had to block people from entering after the venue reached capacity.

They should obviously be listed for Japan. Refusing to do so to maintain your narrative about which groups dominate in different music markets/countries is silly.

Quote from randkpopstan

Oh I know seeing those lists being just full of twice makes you cry a little

It excites me actually. Because I get to watch NewJeans slowly kick out those Twice songs from the list as they grow bigger and bigger in Japan

NJ did this without any official Japanese promotion, no Japanese members and zero Japanese singles.

Imagine their numbers once ADOR actually starts trying to promote them there.

Quote from Catgirl

Stray Kids: Europe

SKZ best girl-group!

Quote from YamaChwan

It excites me actually. Because I get to watch NewJeans slowly kick out those Twice songs from the list as they grow bigger and bigger in Japan

NJ did this without any official Japanese promotion, no Japanese members and zero Japanese singles.

Imagine their numbers once ADOR actually starts trying to promote them there.

Hybe promo there is to paid millions of dollars in playlisting to get those songs streams while twice achieved everything without the need of that, you will never make newjeans looks as impressive as you want to when all their success can be tracked down to hybe pockets.

Quote from Blossomin88

No, my criterias is not different, it's all about sales:

- Ive is currently the best-selling 4th gen gg on the Circle chart.

- Newjeans is selling the highest average number of album copies.

- Le Sserafim is the first girl group in 20 years to surpass ¥2.1 billion in annual sales in Japan. "EASY" is the first and only Korean album by a K-pop girl group in history to surpass 100,000 copies sold on Oricon in its first week of release. (I emphasis this part so you can understand why I didn't include Nj here. Le Sserafim not only performs well on charts but is also extremely profitable in Japan. They are basically on their own league there)

- Gidle was the best-selling 4th generation girl group in terms of revenue in China Digital Music History with CN¥ 54.3M (ranking fourth overall, behind only BTS, BP, and BigBang).

- Aespa's Cbar is the largest among 4th generation girl groups, with their Cbar sales alone reaching 800k.

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Why would you restrict this to just sales? By that logic, you could argue that Stray Kids or TXT or Seventeen are bigger than BlackPink and NewJeans in the U.S., and I don't think anyone would make that argument.

If this is a sales ranking, I wouldn't have even responded, but your thread's whole premise is about different girl groups achieving great success in different countries, and NewJeans, digitally, is performing better than their peers in Japan. Significantly better at that.

There is no reason to exclude them.

Quote from randkpopstan

Hybe promo there is to paid millions of dollars in playlisting to get those songs streams while twice achieved everything without the need of that, you will never make newjeans looks as impressive as you want to when all their success can be tracked down to hybe pockets.

Show me the paper trail you used to track down those pockets full of Hybe money.

Quote from Blossomin88

No, my criterias is not different, it's all about sales:

- Ive is currently the best-selling 4th gen gg on the Circle chart.

- Newjeans is selling the highest average number of album copies.

- Le Sserafim is the first girl group in 20 years to surpass ¥2.1 billion in annual sales in Japan. "EASY" is the first and only Korean album by a K-pop girl group in history to surpass 100,000 copies sold on Oricon in its first week of release. (I emphasis this part so you can understand why I didn't include Nj here. Le Sserafim not only performs well on charts but is also extremely profitable in Japan. They are basically on their own league there)

- Gidle was the best-selling 4th generation girl group in terms of revenue in China Digital Music History with CN¥ 54.3M (ranking fourth overall, behind only BTS, BP, and BigBang).

- Aespa's Cbar is the largest among 4th generation girl groups, with their Cbar sales alone reaching 800k.

- Newjeans is the best-selling 4th gen gg by pure album sales in the US, with 385k copies sold

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+Ive sold 1m of copies in South Korea alone last year

Quote from Blossomin88

Why bother putting girl groups and boy groups in the same discussion when their situations and fandom behaviour are totally different when their? For gg, we all know that the ones with huge sales are also usually the ones with huge popularity. Why not simply wait for Newjeans' debut in Japan to see how well they're doing there? And why isn't Newjeans mentioned here? It's because they are still behind Twice, while Le Sserafim managed to break through, which is why these two groups don't belong in the same category yet.

Because using just physical sales is a flawed way of determining who's popular in a country. It's the same logic for why we don't flatly use album sales for comparing boy groups and girl groups and use a variety of metrics.

NewJeans is, by far, performing the best digitally in Japan. Ditto and OMG are on pace to become two of the biggest hits in the history of their charts. It's objectively silly not to include them, when they're putting up these numbers even when they've yet to actively promote there.

Those tweets were just a drop in the bucket.

There are plenty more where that came from.

It's clear that NewJeans is the most popular girl group in Japan too. We don't need to wait.

Quote from YamaChwan

It excites me actually. Because I get to watch NewJeans slowly kick out those Twice songs from the list as they grow bigger and bigger in Japan

NJ did this without any official Japanese promotion, no Japanese members and zero Japanese singles.

Imagine their numbers once ADOR actually starts trying to promote them there.

None of those Twice songs were Japanese singles, they were mostly early Korean singles before they even started promoting heavily in Japan. You sound like a clown who's smiling on the outside and crying on the inside.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

None of those Twice songs were Japanese singles, they were mostly early Korean singles before they even started promoting heavily in Japan. You sound like a clown who's smiling on the outside and crying on the inside.

I didn't realize Twice was a fourth generation girl group that didn't have any Japanese members and never actively promoted in Japan. Yes, those are totally the same thing. The Idiot Convention ended yesterday.

You can go home now and continue to seethe over Twice flopping so hard with their digitals in their most recent comeback that the ensuing Once meltdown was so bad that Jihyo had to publicly address it.

Quote from YamaChwan

I didn't realize Twice was a fourth generation girl group that didn't have any Japanese members and never actively promoted in Japan. Yes, those are totally the same thing. The Idiot Convention ended yesterday.

You can go home now and continue to seethe over Twice flopping so hard with their digitals in their most recent comeback that the ensuing Once meltdown was so bad that Jihyo had to publicly address it.

Me? Seethe? No, I'm too busy watching you seethe and make excuses.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

Me? Seethe? No, I'm too busy watching you seethe and make excuses.

You might want to find a hobby or touch some grass if watching me is how you stay busy. I'm flattered but that's cringe.

I'll do you a favor and give you the honor of the last word, as it won't have any substance anyway.

Kep1er does ok in Japan

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

Kep1er does ok in Japan

And NiziU

Quote from Blossomin88

This doesn't prove anything. If you're putting Newjeans and Le Sserafim in one group solely based on charts, then Newjeans and 50/50 should also be on the same level in the US because 'Cupid' definitely qualifies for the your criteria here. And there's no real evidence that this will translate into a real support, so we can only determine that after they properly debut there. Despite the success of Ditto and OMG, Get Up album sales on Oricon are only 69k, only slightly increased from their previous album sales. So, their fanbase is not really growing that much despite how big their songs there.

Newjeans' sales in Japan are quite on par with Aespa that didn't even have any hit song there. So, instead of Newjeans, I probably would put Aespa because at least they've proven they can sell out Tokyo Dome. Outside of Ditto and Omg to some extent, Nj is still not on par with Lsf yet.

Except we have significant evidence that the strong digitals did translate to support. I'm not sure why you used a false equivalence like mentioning 50/50, when charting was all they had and nothing else.

NewJeans have the best digitals by far, strong physical sales (I'm not sure why you ignored Get Up selling 200k copies on Oricon), headlined one of the biggest music festivals in Japan, was the first girl group to win an award at Japan's most prestigious music awards show, and were even given a main event time slot during Kohaku, but they're somehow NOT one of the girl groups dominating in Japan?

Do you read what you type? Outside of two of the best charting girl group songs in the history of Japan's Billboard, NewJeans aren't on par? That's a laughable statement.

There are many, many more reasons to include NewJeans as a group that's overwhelmingly popular in Japan than there are reasons not to. Your logic to do the latter has been quite specious.

It’s not okay to behave like that

Just because someone said LSR is bigger in japan.

Quote from killthisfenty

It’s not okay to behave like that

Just because someone said LSR is bigger in japan.

1.aespa

2.ive

3.lsf

do you agree?

Quote from killthisfenty

It’s not okay to behave like that

Just because someone said LSR is bigger in japan.

It's not okay to fail so badly at reading comprehension either.

I don't care that LSF was on their list; my issue was with the logic used to exclude NJ from it.

If you're so sensitive about people reacting to a public forum post, maybe stick to discord servers

Quote from Blossomin88

Get Up didn't have 200k copies in album sales on Oricon; this figure includes digital sales. Yes, Nj still aren't on par with Lsf. In Japan, charting was all Nj had too. Whatever performances they do or attend are aimed at leveraging any hype they have there. If Fifi didn't have those lawsuit issues, they'd likely follow the same pattern. Cupid is also still in the top 10 for BB World Digital Song Sales. What's the difference between them, other than Nj being able to promote their song more in Japan and Fifi not? Yet, even after Ditto's success, as I mentioned, Newjeans' physical sales there didn't increase much. So, there's no guarantee they are really popular there. Super Shy and Eta didn't even perform as well as Ditto or Omg either. Lsf has both sales and charts, so Nj needs to prove they can sell well before they're on par with Lsf, who even managed to beat Twice in Japan.

Logically, if they're really that popular as your claims, it should reflects well with their sales.

Your criteria is simply flawed. A group that hit all the marks I outlined earlier not being considered a top group in Japan is simply illogical to me. Their songs are charting higher for much longer and they're getting invited to the biggest shows in Japan, winning awards their predecessors have never even won, and if it's demand, we saw that at Summer Sonic.

They have, by far, the best charting music in the country, so how can you claim they need to prove they're popular? By that logic, Sistar was never popular in Korea, since their album sales were always low due to their smaller fanbase.

Album sales do not reflect the overall popularity of their group, just the strength of their core fandom and its willingness to buy said albums.

Here's a fun thought experiment.

Did you think BlackPink wasn't one of the top girl groups in Korea in 2016 or 2017?

Quote from Blossomin88

Your criteria are flawed too. I wouldn't compare Nj to Lsf, who make $14.6 million in Japan alone, with a group that only charts well there for one album while can't keep the momentum for their next one. The gap is too huge, and it's laughable.

You're trying entirely too hard to force this narrative of there being some huge gap when there isn't.

NewJeans songs chart better for far longer, while the group itself has been invited to headline literally the biggest music events in the country while winning awards no other girl group has received at the country's most prestigious music ceremony.

There is no timeline where a group accomplishes this and ISN'T one of the top girl groups in said country. It's that simple. Your mental gymnastics won't change that fact.

There is no flaw in my criteria, because I look at all the measurements of success instead of hyper fixating on the ones that are convenient for the narrative I wish to push.

LSF have an edge in physical sales, while NewJeans have an edge in digitals, and that's without a Japanese member like Sakura or Kazuha.

Quote from Blossomin88

In 2016 and 2017, Bp was one of the top groups,

Nothing else you said after this matters. By your own admission, you acknowledge BlackPink as a top girl group in two years where they didn't have any album sales. So what did we use to gauge success for them? Exactly. Their digitals and popularity with the general public. Album sales measure FANDOM not overall popularity.

You're also now moving the goalpost and trying to strawman this into a conversation about who is the most popular when that was NEVER the point of contention. I don't care if you album sales matter to you more than digitals and public recognition to determine the general popularity of the group, but it's irrational to discount digitals and being recognized at the biggest music venues in the country while putting album sales on a pedestal.

You're grasping at straws at this point. You have no idea how much money LSF made in Japan relative to NewJeans. Hell, I at least have more concrete numbers to stand on than you, since Hybe is a publicly traded company, which means it has earnings reports, which showed ADOR to be the most profitable sub label. They invested minimally in Japan so far and have yielded fantastic results.

LSF is doing great in Japan as well, and I never argued otherwise, but they aren't some untouchable dominant group there, when there is another group putting up much better digitals.

Anyway. For Japan it should be NJ/LSF, just how you had it as NJ/IVE for Korea.

Album sales in Japan in 2023: (compare between the 4 groups)

1. Le Sserafim - UNFORGIVEN (118K)
2. Ive - I AM (40K), Baddie (69K)
3. NewJean - OMG (36K), Get Up (69K)
4. aespa - MY WORLD (56K), DRAMA (26K)

Stream Oricon 2023:

#15 NewJeans - Ditto

#25 NewJeans - OMG

#41 Le Sserafim - Antifragile

#51 NewJeans - Hype Boy

#71 IVE - I AM

#84 Le Sserafim - UNFORGIVEN

#95 NewJeans - Super Shy

Album ranking on Oricon Yearly:

#39 IVE - WAVE

#44 Le Sserafim - UNFORGIVEN

#64 NewJeans - Get Up

#65 IVE - I've Mine

#73 aespa - MY WORLD

#91 IVE - I've IVE

Album sales to go LSF. Digitals go to NJ.

With the Summer Sonic invite, Kohaku invite and this achievement you conveniently ignored:

There is zero reason to put them in separate tiers of popularity in Japan.

But I think I've made my point clear enough, regardless of your inflexible mindset.

Quote from Catgirl

Stray Kids: Europe

GG my friend GG lol

I dont know if i should reply to this post after a month but, as of March Lsfm is #1 by big margin... Just waiting for IVE NJ comeback to gauge the overall ranks...

Quote from blueyama016

I dont know if i should reply to this post after a month but, as of March Lsfm is #1 by big margin... Just waiting for IVE NJ comeback to gauge the overall ranks...

Based on?

I don't want to spoil your happiness but this also shows that all top 4gen are easily and quickly replaceable in each country.

I recently listened to NXMIXX music and their latest album is sooo good.

Too bad they're not in the mix at all.