Bg stans, how do you feel about the general topic that bgs are not as popular as ggs?

Same.

Sure, it would be good if my bg could chart on Melon but at the end, having a loyal fandom is better for longevity. GG having longevity is rarer than BG.

I think it's valid to say girlgroups lately are more popular and get more attention than boygroups, the problem is when people mistake popularity as success. But that's a whole different convo.

Quote from Lulu_Key

I do think the ggs are extremely successful but they are always at risk of their casual fans flocking into the next new thing.

50/50. I think the charting and streams of a lot of new ggs is very good. But people overrate the importance of these digital charts when the gp isn't the one that's going to pay the bills to the girls, and time has proven that.

I think it's fine to discuss but a weird thing to boast about since the reason girl groups are more popular with the general public is because, idk how to explain, you know the obsession with girls while they're young? something related to that. But if that somewhats translate to people actually supporting women like creating a real fandom interested not only in their visual but also interested in her work, artistic vision etc (similar to what bg members tend to have as they age) they I think it's great. I think CL, Lisa, Hyunah are examples I can think of.

OK I forgot IU, IU is one of the best examples of them all, but afaik she went through a lot to get the respect she has today.

Quote from MakotoNijima

50/50. I think the charting and streams of a lot of new ggs is very good. But people overrate the importance of these digital charts when the gp isn't the one that's going to pay the bills to the girls, and time has proven that.

Digital charts prove to business the popularity of the girls and that wins them more CF opportunities, which is the most profitable way for GGs to make money.

I don't think on an average male idols get as much endorsement options.

So digitals do matter, though not directly.

Physicals is direct fan spending. BGs tend to dominate there.

Of course, these are averages, there are always exceptions to the average trend.

Quote from paradise52

I think it's fine to discuss but a weird thing to boast about since the reason girl groups are more popular with the general public is because, idk how to explain, you know the obsession with girls while they're young? something related to that. But if that somewhats translate to people actually supporting women like creating a real fandom interested not only in their visual but also interested in her work, artistic vision etc (similar to what bg members tend to have as they age) they I think it's great. I think CL, Lisa, Hyunah are examples I can think of.

OK I forgot IU, IU is one of the best examples of them all, but afaik she went through a lot to get the respect she has today.

Objectification is an essential component of most entrainment.

In a way Kpop is more gender equal than other entertainment, because male idols are also objectified to a good extent.

Do you think there is no objectification factor in BG fandoms?

But yes, over time like the examples you mentions, idols- both male and female can transcend their image catering to objectification and bring other talents to fore.

dont boygroups also tend to suffer more if one of them dates just because of how fandom focused they are? like exo chen? his career is basically non existent at this point

To be honest, no. Everyone agrees deep inside having a stable big fandom is better. When the GP drops these people's favorite GG while the ones they dislike or don't care about are doing well, they are the first one to hype the importance of physicals and fandom as If they never dragged it before.

Quote from Lulu_Key

Digital are not the only way to get CFs

I argue that visuals matter the most

If you are super pretty, you get booked

There can a lot of pretty people, but that first should lead to popularity, that is the digital charts.

Else why isn't every idol getting CFs , they are all pretty by average standards.

Super pretty is simply pretty that got popular.

true i guess its only recently that female idols dont get a lot of flack for dating i was just thinking male idols since they rely on fandom a lot so them dating would effect them a lot more fandom wise, whilst for female idols like jennie, she didn't lose any fans.. but now that i think about it thats probably because bp has more female fans.

Quote from Lulu_Key

Hadn't he been headliner for kpop festivals?

That's not nonexistent

Gg members also suffer when they date

Rather than getting hate just from their own fandom, sometimes the whole freaking country is up their business

In general poor kpop idols can't date in peace

Display More

Quote from bbgc

Digital charts prove to business the popularity of the girls and that wins them more CF opportunities, which is the most profitable way for GGs to make money.

I don't think on an average male idols get as much endorsement options.

So digitals do matter, though not directly.

Physicals is direct fan spending. BGs tend to dominate there.

Of course, these are averages, there are always exceptions to the average trend.

Display More

Yeah CFs are a better way to get money than digitals, I know they kinda depend on it but I feel like CFs are more benefitial to certain members that get popular because of their looks, personality, or a viral moment than to the whole group most of the time.

Of course, not all groups are the same, there are ggs like Oh My Girl (until recently) or Brave Girls whose success heavily depends on digitals and getting CFs a lot more than for ggs on the Big 4.

I also have to say that you can get good CFs without charting that good though, like Mijoo (ex Lovelyz) or Loona's Chuu, but you need luck, looks, variety talent, etc.

Girlgroups are starting to sell physicals a lot too anyways though, which is good. It indicates more touring power which is something most ggs were not that good at before.

I have mixed feelings. I like how consistent the fandom is, and it’s nice to have that security and know that they’ll likely be fine in the future (at least in terms of fans, though there are some exceptions to the rule sadly), I do sometimes wish the general public would pay more attention to them as well. Then again, I suppose you can’t have it all, and if it truly must be only one or the other, I’ll go with having a stable fan base over the general public’s interest any day. It’s better for the group overall (less general public interest means maybe they won’t be bothered in public as often, as fewer people have heard of them, though popularity plays into that too) and at the end of the day, I just want them to be happy and successful while doing what they’d love. As much as I’d love for more people and more of the general public to be interested in them as well, if the group in question doesn’t seem to mind that much, I’ll survive.

A dedicated fandom is indeed a reliable source of income. No wonder even if there are a bg that I never heard of but they are doing pretty well.

Whereas with gp, it's more like a trend. If you are liked then you are the trend, and you'll be more relevant. That increasing your chance to get cf and brand deals.

If you're not the "trend" anymore, you will feel outdated. That's why gg is more often bringing a fresh concept to make gp keep their interest in them.

And keeping the trend could be hard since people naturally could get bored and would tend to be more interested for something new (hence one of the reasons why the gg rookies could hit it big with gp)

Or rather than keeping the trend, you could try to convert the interested gp to your fandom, making it as reliable income source.

Can I add that I think it's kind sad to see our group(s) not getting love in their own country so sure, we wished have some gp reactions. But if they are happy and have fans somewhere allowing them to do concerts, I'm happy for them.

Quote from bbgc

Objectification is an essential component of most entrainment.

In a way Kpop is more gender equal than other entertainment, because male idols are also objectified to a good extent.

Do you think there is no objectification factor in BG fandoms?

But yes, over time like the examples you mentions, idols- both male and female can transcend their image catering to objectification and bring other talents to fore.

Display More

I think there’s objectification for both genders in all entertainment, the thing is with women people don’t really give you the chance to be more than just a pretty face. If you see male idols fandom they discuss in depth who wrote what, the music x member like, x artistic taste, now for female idols is all about looking pretty aaaand that’s it. Men can be objectified but a majority of them are given the chance to be complex individuals, women in kpop are treated like dolls.

Honestly this is my perception, I’ve only been part of a bg fandom and I’ve noticed even tho men are objectified they’re recognized by things like their work ethic, contributions, creative input, whereas for female groups this is way rarer, like the examples I said before.

Anyway I can also talk about experience, I don’t think men see me as an individual as complex as them lol

the main issue is certain people that aren't respectful about opinions and choices...

it's the same old issue regardless of whether it's bg vs gg or team A vs team B or whatever

even if a person doesn't like something there's no reason to go batshit crazy and hate on another person's choices whether it be kpop or sports or anything

you like what you like and they like who they like - just be respectful about it

One thing I wonder, BG is not popular with GP but still at award event or year end event most BG will always in the list. 2020 and 2021 are full of BGs.

Or is this different thing?

Quote from Lulu_Key

I was comparing SHINee members with their counter part gg members of their time. Public has moved on and don't really pay attention to any solos those gg members put out. While shinee solos sell 100k tickets in Japan in a week easily.

The end return on having a stable fandom is just so much better.

Same I don't really care about the silly measuring contest fans do 😂🤡🤡🤡 but the reality is BGs are better in the long run. Name how many current and former GG members stay relevant inside and outside the industry for years and constantly have sold out comebacks?.

Outside of the very few outliers like IU. For the very few idols like her there's 10BG members on her level or higher. SHINee is one of them relevant in music, acting and modeling, super junior. Infinite,skz,exo, Ateez, BTS. BGs make all the money and keep the lights on in most agencies or else they wouldn't keep debuting them 5to 1 vs girl groups.

Quote from kazuyakamenashi

Same I don't really care about the silly measuring contest fans do 😂🤡🤡🤡 but the reality is BGs are better in the long run. Name how many current and former GG members stay relevant inside and outside the industry for years and constantly have sold out comebacks?.

Outside of the very few outliers like IU. For the very few idols like her there's 10BG members on her level or higher. SHINee is one of them relevant in music, acting and modeling, super junior. Infinite,skz,exo, Ateez, BTS. BGs make all the money and keep the lights on in most agencies or else they wouldn't keep debuting them 5to 1 vs girl groups.

That women have a shorter shelf life in entertainment on an average, compared to men, is hardly news or unique to Kpop.

But that's not the premise of this thread, which is about GP popularity.

So on an average, excluding outliers - GGs are relatively more popular but for a shorter career vs. BGs, are relatively less popular, but have greater longevity.

To OPs question, I don't feel anything about it, since that's in line with natural dimorphism of genders, I think it is fitting.

Quote from bbgc

That women have a shorter shelf life in entertainment on an average, compared to men, is hardly news or unique to Kpop.

But that's not the premise of this thread, which is about GP popularity.

So on an average, excluding outliers - GGs are relatively more popular but for a shorter career vs. BGs, are relatively less popular, but have greater longevity.

To OPs question, I don't feel anything about it, since that's in line with natural dimorphism of genders, I think it is fitting.

Display More

Then you have the few groups that have the best of both worlds. BigBang epik high and BTS. They all have GP and longevity from dedicated large fandoms. If I had to choose one I'd choose BG everytime because long term support/success is far more rewarding than the short run popularity

I feel bad as they are talented and work hard and put out good music as well but don't get the appreciation they deserve from their home country, but what can I do? I mean as long as they make money and have stable career, happy and healthy that's all i guess

Quote from kazuyakamenashi

Then you have the few groups that have the best of both worlds. BigBang epik high and BTS. They all have GP and longevity from dedicated large fandoms. If I had to choose one I'd choose BG everytime because long term support/success is far more rewarding than the short run popularity

That's the reason I repeatedly put the word "average" in my reply.

The dynamics are different for the top 1% of any field.

If you have to choose - if you are girl, you may not have a choice.

So meh..

People have to make the best of the situation.

It is not as though BGs won't choose popularity or GGs won't choose longevity.

Yet the choices are limited and they have to live with it.

Quote from ripia

I just think it's sad that ggs can't get dedicated fandoms just because they're female.

Nmixx getting 400K sales at debut with the horrid song

u dont call those dedicated stans ???

Quote from ripia

Jyp ggs don't count lmao.. they're way too big for no reason

Aespa best 4th gen seller, they have the most dedicated stans in korea and china among 4th gen

Ive, Lsf, njs have so many dedicated stans, they are literally ending all the rookie bgs in physicals

how come ggs dont have dedicated stans?

Having a strong fandom helps longevity more than having largely GP backing. Just look at a group like KISS. Entirely fandom backed at this point and still rocking out. They can still sell lots of tickets after 40+ years. (KISS was my first group back in the 90s lol)

BGs are like Dreamcatcher. Can not chart anywhere but consistently sell 130k+ and have decent touring revenue. Except bgs sell way more than them.

Quote from Lulu_Key

I think I'll wait for 3 to 4 years before calling any fandoms dedicated

nah no group would be selling that much without dedicated fandoms

also for Ive, Lsf some of their fans have been 3-4 years as since produce

their charting and streams may be unpredictable, but their sales will only go up from here which shows fandom power

Quote from ripia

I just think it's sad that ggs can't get dedicated fandoms just because they're female.

also it seems as gg stans are highly success stans

they only stan whoever gets that korean validation and charts well