I don't get why (G) idle is not the top 4 gen , like why ?

Gurl their vocal skills as a group are not “just behind” mamamoo lol what sort of delusion is this 💀 don’t know if you actually stan mamamoo or only solo stan wheein but you should educate yourself more on their level of talents and skills before disrespecting them like this 💀

because they're 3rd gen.

i'm not agree with what you said, but anyway

Quote from Panpriyah-lice

Why are they not at the top?

They don't have the "visual" to appeal Ifans, they don't care about music they only want to brag about visuals, MV and charts. You got good example everyday on akpop.

well the top generally implies top in the metrics

ie. album sales, K charting, international charting, streaming (spotify and YT?), touring, merch? (maybe there's others)

and for album sales I think they are beaten by other groups like I don't have the exact numbers but their recent album sold less than 250K? which is really impressive for a GG I think but certainly not comparable to the likes of Aespa at over (what??? 1.6m???) or Itzy with presales of like 700K???

They seem older tbh and competing more with the demographic of twice and BP than aespa/Ive etc and compared to twice and BP they just don’t have that appeal.

Right now, they are really popular in korea.

Quote from ISaidISaid

They seem older tbh and competing more with the demographic of twice and BP than aespa/Ive etc

That's cause of their concept they target demographic between 20-25 like BP & Twice

They are not from Big 3 AND they dont have IT girl. They are talented and have quality song but they couldnt get the support

Soyeon is talented but she doesnt meet knetizen's visual standard. Miyeon is pretty but she is less interesting than the others, at least she is being appreciated visually (and she has great voice imo). Minnie is SEA and u see how badly Lisa is treated then u know Minnie is never going to hit big. Yuqi is popular but she will not be IT girl cause she is Chinese. Same goes to Shuhua (taiwaneze i know the distinction) and people always think she is the weak link in the group.

for now the most stable 4th gen GG is IVE

they have 0 flops 2 singles releases and both smashed their members are all liked and Wonyoung is the 4th Gen IT GIRL. Let's see what will happen in August to them but if they smash again they will have the physical and the digitals including the spotify and ww appeal

Their charting was not consistent. Tomboy is their biggest hit in korea by a mile and they had many mid to meh performing songs in a row

Quote from Panpriyah-lice

most stable 4gen in chart

One massive hit song does not mean stable. Go look at how their other releases have performed through out the years.

But they can surely be a top gg in sk if they continue getting hits.

disagree with the vocal tho, and they only have one huge hit i guess

but afterall the reason they will never become top group is because they dont have the main it girl

Quote from sorecer

for now the most stable 4th gen GG is IVE

they have 0 flops 2 singles releases and both smashed their members are all liked and Wonyoung is the 4th Gen IT GIRL. Let's see what will happen in August to them but if they smash again they will have the physical and the digitals including the spotify and ww appeal

agree with this...

Quote from Panpriyah-lice

- Their vocal skills are one of the best, they are just behind Mamamoo

I stan both groups and I disagree.. maybe you haven't heard Mamamoo's live singing.. I don't think G-Idle comparable to them.

watch this video if you want to know how superior Mamamoo's vocal skills is

They have like 2-3 hit songs with a lot of mediocre songs in between

Quote from Panpriyah-lice

I don't see how I disrespect them ,

You don't know anything about me and who is my bias in mamamo... I don't need a lesson from an Akgaes 💀 GET OUT

um do you know what akgae even means or are you just brandishing out that insult bc it’s a trendy word lol 💀 but yes as someone who just defended mamamoo’s skills as a whole group I’m definitely an akgae who by definition hates an entire group aside from their bias in that group - that totally makes sense 😂

Quote from Panpriyah-lice

a main it girl ??

main it girl in 4th gen is Wonyoung

Quote from SooYoung

Also soyeon is the one who's the most promoted and exposed and she's their center but even her doesn't seem to be the most popular in the fandom and even if she's the center and really charismatic

I don't think she do a really good job in the sens that usually center are the one playing the role of stan attractor and she doesn't seem to attract a lot of fans when you compare to other 4th gen center like ryujin, wonyoung, karina etc...

because she is not considered visual

they don't capture any of the main criteria people care about.

I'll be direct, people really don't care about talent that much, unless you're an expert in dancing, singing, etc an idol just had to be good enough to not be bad for the majority of fans. Plus things like auto tune and controlled staging makes up for it.

The other issue is you can't measure talent objectively. If maybe there's a way to chart talent, like this idol has a talent level of x and y, at least then you'll be able to attract the success stans but unfortunately, Tomboy happened too late. The old fans already committed to a 3rd gen group of their liking and the new fans priorities in newer 4th group who are younger and has more life in their contract.

The other thing is we sometimes underestimate the importance of visuals and stan attractors. There's one thing almost all the top groups have in common, they have at least one very strong visual. Not saying they're not attractive but even you mentioned, they're not at the same level as the other groups.

So right now they're not winning the success stans over, which makes up a good portion of fans, many bandwagon. They're not winning the visual stans over which makes up the other major portion of fans.

Then your left with fans who's really in it for the music and talent but we already know this is only a small portion of kpop fans. Their concept isn't exactly the most gp friendly either. I'm speaking this as a Dreamcatcher fan and most the points I've mentioned also applies too. Full of talent but non gp friendly concept, no key visuals, not trendy and successful enough, so they get grouped into a niche to mid fan base that likely won't ever break away from

Quote from kb801

because they're 3rd gen.

I'm happy to accept that when you convince the SKZ fans that SKZ are also 3rd gen.

aespa and NMIXX have better vocals. (Overall, GIDLE's vocals don't seem that great to me. They're fine but not best in gen or even great).

Itzy have better dancers and performers.

Ive has a cohesive package (they're solid in all areas although they don't excel in any of them IMO and very polished.)

4th gen gg is a highly competitive space and that's not even counting NMIXX with the right song or Les Sserafim without the scandal. GIDLE is one of the most streamed kpop groups on Spotify, even before Tomboy, so it feels like they could be their gen's RV? Very successful and continuing to make hits but not always included in the "top" discussion.

Quote from Panpriyah-lice

no one is direspecting the girls and no one compare them , I said " behind " and behind means second ...

If you don't get that or you're too sensitive , it's not my fault

gurl I didn’t say you think mamamoo and gidle are of the same level of skills. You didn’t understand my point at all lol. Also love how you completely ignored when I pointed out your ridiculous and nonsensical accusation that i’m an “akgae” of the group 😂

Quote from jinaland

because they dont have the main it girl

That's not a problem tho. If a group has high album sales, continuous hits and streams they'll be always considered a top gg. Most 4th gen ggs don't have it girls.

Quote from atropos

That's not a problem tho. If a group has high album sales, continuous hits and streams they'll be always considered a top gg. Most 4th gen ggs don't have it girls.

i mean top as top #1

Re: Charting

Senorita had 213k ULs, UH-OH, 214k Uls, Lion 227k ULs. Their lowest charting song is Hwaa with 173K ULS.

Are they Tomboy hits? No. But each release has been pretty respectable and garnered a good user base, not even listing Genie (their strongest chart). I wouldn't say their Top like the OP, because they kind of transcend the whole IVE/AESPA/ITZY battle, but they've been very consistent.

I feel like people have no idea how hard it is to be that consistent every time. They aren't Big 3 and they self-produce. They consistently get to top 30. They've been the tortoise in the race whilst all the other hares have zoomed past and then fell off.

I think the user above who compared them to RV (as a measure of success) is quite right. They quietly are always underestimated but built a strong discography and listening base. They'll be 2nd/3rd in most lists and that's fine. They focus far more on music then any of the "Top" groups.

They sold 420 albums on their first day. They were basically unheralded. They dont' have Big 3, or a massive produce group member buffing their group from pre-debut. OP is a dumb setup but people are making up shit to push back against them too.

Quote from Whi

gurl I didn’t say you think mamamoo and gidle are of the same level of skills.

They both have levels of skills better than the other. Mamamoo are the better singers, everyone knows that. Idle obviously have the better rapper. Each have their own strengths.

They are honestly both kind of similar - non big 3/4, focusing far more on music then their peers. Generally an older fan demographic too.

OP would have been more accurate with vocal colour, obviously subjective, but Idle's strongest vocal point is the very different tones that make up their vocals.

Quote from Panpriyah-lice

First , I get your point ...Mamamoo is too good to be mentioned, even make someone behind them is so so disrespectful ,I really have no education to put their names and g idle names in the same sentence

And second, I consider an akgae someone who thinks that putting someone behind their fave is an insult

And finally, you can give your opinion by saying " you don't agree or they are not good " but you choose to sit on people like that saying that they have no education

um yeah thanks for the confirmation that you had absolutely no idea what akgae actually means lol you can’t just make up new meanings for words and apply them as you see fit and expect people to immediately understand or accept it like

and if you were a complete stranger I would’ve taken a different approach but since i’ve seen your threads before and you yourself have admitted that you don’t know mamamoo very well in a reply to me in one of your threads I don’t think it’s egregious to draw the conclusion you definitely had little knowledge about them to make such claims like in this thread and that one thread lol

Quote from SooYoung

It's not the point

Nancy is the center of momoland and their visual but she's doing a bad job to attract fans in comparison of Jooe who doesn't fit korean standard but still attract most fans of momoland and tend to overshadow nancy as the center

VIXX N was the member who was consider the least attractive by the fan and gp but he was the center and the most popular member and attract a lot of fans

Naeun is the visual and center but eunji was always the one who seem to attract the most fans even if she's not consider very attractive visually

I can go on and on about center who doesn't do a good job at being good stan attractor and even being overshadow by members who aren't consider very attractive imo you can be very charismatic that doesn't make you a very good stan attractor and soyeon is in this case

Some people just have this energy, vibe that makes that even if you don't find them attractive or else, there's something about them who makes you know more about them

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That's like lots of estimates and assumptions there. And none of the groups u have mentioned was really contender for top group of their gen and didn't have much fans and interests, so its hard to make conclusion. Also things are whole different for boygroups, people have much less obsession with visuals in boygroups than girlgroups. There are some examples. For example GD being most popular in BB. Eunji is popular than Naeun because she starred main roles in kdramas right away and won several awards for it while Naeun was only having support roles. And she is vocal powerhouse, just too talented too flop there and I don't think she was much of a visual hole. Nancy, Jooe and Yeonwoo (former member) all were equally popular i think. And Nancy was mixed, i always used to see hate comments from knetz bodyshaming her being thick, her nasty behaviour at music show etc. I feel like it ruined her.

Soyeon is literally one of the most charismatic idols. She is up there with Hyuna, CL, Hwasa etc. The attitude, the stage presence, the confidene, the aura etc. If there is only barrier for her to be it girl its definitely because she is not considered visuals. I have seen several times she being criticized by her visuals, and some even think she is visual hole in (g)-idle. Like what flaw do u find from her exactly?

Quote from Whi

Gurl their vocal skills as a group are not “just behind” mamamoo lol what sort of delusion is this 💀 don’t know if you actually stan mamamoo or only solo stan wheein but you should educate yourself more on their level of talents and skills before disrespecting them like this 💀

mamamoomoo overrated af

Quote from thebadguy

mamamoomoo overrated af

seethe

G IDLE is 4th gen group, why would people excluded them when SKZ & Ateez the group that debut same year with them is consider 4th gen. Maybe because some of their faves records will become invalid.

They are underrated imo. Best song production and rap skills among girl groups, the whole album songs are composed by members, one of the best discography, their talents and versatility are greatly underestimated, most of the members are unique and strong enough to go solo, it's especially obvious when you look at their solo songs. How many people care enough to listen to their other contents thou.