Yes, they are all defacto 4th generation groups for me. Technically, i think you could say that Itzy started 4th gen in 2019, but i have a hard time putting groups that debuted in 2018 in 3rd gen. Putting SKZ with Got7 just doesnt seem right, the former still seem like boys while the latter are grown ass men. Same with putting a group like Izone in the same generation as IOI, it just doesnt seem right, Izone seems SO YOUNG to me.
Geez, I really don't care. People are obsessed with generations and what belongs where. It doesn't matter, it's only logical to me that transition wasn't sudden and that only later they were started being considered as 4th gen groups, not at debut.
I've seen people saying here that we put tbz as 4th gen so we could 'claim achievements' for them, which we never even do (well at least not here or most of fans).
Nah, I just use 4th gen to go with how most people and all the korean music show stations and media named them and always sgroup them together as 4th gen.
If they are or not I don't care, everyone has their own explanation.
As if lives depended on it 
Yes, they are all defacto 4th generation groups for me. Technically, i think you could say that Itzy started 4th gen in 2019, but i have a hard time putting groups that debuted in 2018 in 3rd gen. Putting SKZ with Got7 just doesnt seem right, the former still seem like boys while the latter are grown ass men. Same with putting a group like Izone in the same generation as IOI, it just doesnt seem right, Izone seems SO YOUNG to me.
Exactly. They just don't feel 3rd gen. Like it's just odd to put them with 3rd gen.
Display MoreGeez, I really don't care. People are obsessed with generations and what belongs where. It doesn't matter, it's only logical to me that transition wasn't sudden and that only later they were started being considered as 4th gen groups, not at debut.
I've seen people saying here that we put tbz as 4th gen so we could 'claim achievements' for them, which we never even do (well at least not here or most of fans).
Nah, I just use 4th gen to go with how most people and all the korean music show stations and media named them and always sgroup them together as 4th gen.
If they are or not I don't care, everyone has their own explanation.
As if lives depended on it
I guess achievements are the biggest problem with the generation division and in a way even define them.
I guess achievements are the biggest problem with the generation division and in a way even define them.
Not for me, but on akp I guess yeah. This is the only thing that matters here as it seems. Generations and who's leading what.
I sincerely didn't even knew about all that stuff and achievements until I joined here
Solar and irene could have debuted in 2nd gen when u think about it....
I've never thought of it but if I had to choose, I would say that they are 4th gen veterans or early 4th gen.
They are heavily established in the kpop scene already but they piloted the "new, fierce youth" and established that there is a age and style gap between themselves and the third gen incumbents.
Disclaimer, this is all imo, may not be what others think or hold to be true.
Yeah but 4th gen is arbitrary and not based on something big a group did. EXO debuted and became a top group within a year of their debut signaling the start of a new gen so it’s less debated.
Where as for 4th gen everyone just decided ok let’s make these groups 4th because their accomplishments cannot be compared to their seniors and so there will always be this discussion.
If anything 2020 with aespa’s debut since they had a national hit song within a year of their debut is a better indication of the start of a new gen IMO.
History might remember the groups mentioned here as tail end of 3rd gen rather than 4th gen indeed if they fade away who knows.
Display MoreYeah but 4th gen is arbitrary and not based on something big a group did. EXO debuted and became a top group within a year of their debut signaling the start of a new gen so it’s less debated.
Where as for 4th gen everyone just decided ok let’s make these groups 4th because their accomplishments cannot be compared to their seniors and so there will always be this discussion.
If anything 2020 with aespa’s debut since they had a national hit song within a year of their debut is a better indication of the start of a new gen IMO.
History might remember the groups mentioned here as tail end of 3rd gen rather than 4th gen indeed if they fade away who knows.
that's correct and fair in the case of 3rd gen, but the kpop scene has changed a lot since then, I don't think the same standards should be forced upon 4th gen, but instead should be reasonably adapted to the new circumstances
because they debut in 2017
Yeah in December lol. 4th gen is arbitrary and not based on anything. So might as well group them with the 4th gen.
I consider them 4th gen because that's what media consider them. And the reasoning that comes with it makes sense to me so I don't see why I should deny it.
Time to bring the article again.
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Stray Kids, IZ*ONE, (G)I-DLE, and TOMORROW X TOGETHER, who are drawing attention as 4th generation idols.
There is no official standard for dividing the generations of idol groups. However, among the groups in their second year since their debut, Stray Kids, IZ*ONE, (G)I-DLE and TOMORROW X TOGETHER are among the most outstanding. Stray Kids' latest comeback, "GO LIVE," had more than 200,000 pre-orders (based on Gaon Chart) before its official release. TXT's album, which came back last month, also sold more than 240,000 copies. IZ*ONE and (G)I-DLE, who made their comeback in the first half of the year, sold 400,000 and 150,000 albums, respectively. They rank first and second in sales of girl group albums released in the first half of this year. Considering that album sales volume = size of fandom, their influence is proven by figures.
One of the characteristics of fourth-generation idols is that their self production abilities have increased. Stray Kids released a mix tape that they wrote and composed before their debut. Many of the members have the ability to produce, and there is a producing team called "Sriracha" (3RACHA) in the group. Most of the title songs were written by themselves, including their new song "New Menu." Member Changbin said, "I will only include what I want to share with my fans and what I really wanted to say," and Hyunjin said, "The members planned the concepts, themes, and keywords for each song."
(G)I-DLE has the top producing skills of leader Soyeon, who is called a "genius producer". Their debut songs "LATATA" and "HANN" were also self-composed, and she produced all the songs of their third mini-album "I Trust".
The "border crossing" is also a prominent feature of fourth-generation idols. If the existing group has established its presence in Korea and has targeted overseas markets, they will take the world as the stage from the beginning. This is because K-pop has established itself as a genre and is accessible through various SNS platforms. For this reason, some groups have more overseas fans than domestic fans.
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article published on June 23, 2020
As for The Boyz, I'd say they're the absolute earliest 4th gen group… I don't think there was anything inherently 4th gen about them when they debuted but since they debuted very late 2017 they shared their first award season with SKZ who are much more distinctly 4th gen, and they are also constantly grouped together with post-2018 groups, so I think it's fine to call them 4th gen too.
that's correct and fair in the case of 3rd gen, but the kpop scene has changed a lot since then, I don't think the same standards should be forced upon 4th gen, but instead should be reasonably adapted to the new circumstances
For me change in sounds and trends imo don’t reflect a generation. Early 3rd gen is already different from mid 3rd gen. Even 3rd gen group themselves don’t make the music they made in 2013/14 in 2017/18. So for me that’s not good enough for a generation. Because music styles change quicker than generations.
From first to second gen we went to digital downloads and digital era and hallyu in Asia. We moved from Asian based popularity to social media driven other international popularity and huge physical sales in 3rd gen.
Nothing much on that front has changed for me in kpop. There is nothing miraculously different happening in 2022 that didn’t happen in 2017/18.
idk anymore. jyp (and bighit in 2019) kinda messed up the timeline with debuting groups so soon.
I think people started talking about 4th gen, because 4th gen groups are debuting in different circumstances than 3rd gen groups
People are saying 4th gen groups are still not overtaking, but when you think about how soon it started it's no suprise.
3rd gen lasted 6 years which is nothing, especially when you have a group like bts who are still active
For me change in sounds and trends imo don’t reflect a generation. Early 3rd gen is already different from mid 3rd gen. Even 3rd gen group themselves don’t make the music they made in 2013/14 in 2017/18. So for me that’s not good enough for a generation. Because music styles change quicker than generations.
From first to second gen we went to digital downloads and digital era and hallyu in Asia. We moved from Asian based popularity to social media driven other international popularity and huge physical sales in 3rd gen.
Nothing much on that front has changed for me in kpop. There is nothing miraculously different happening in 2022 that didn’t happen in 2017/18.
I didn't necessarily mean the music but the way kpop is consumed, as you talked about hit songs and Exo's almost instant rise—I don't see a point in applying these standards to 4th gen groups for several reasons, including the change in Korean consumption and regard for kpop, or the massive international popularity of 3rd gen extending the timeframe for 3rd gen groups in which it is possible to "stay on top" (which, of course, doesn't mean 3rd gen and 4th gen can't coexist)
QuoteDisplay MoreAt first, some people were saying that groups debuting after 2019 are considered 4th generation, and eventually, they've started saying that groups debuting after 2018 are the 4th generation.... I was just thinking 'okay' when I heard that, but now, there are people claiming that everyone after 2017 are the 4th generation...
To be honest, groups that debuted after 2017 are already 5 years into their debut so isn't it wrong to call them the 4th generation..?
Wanna One debuted in 2017 and they're still considered the 3rd generation... And people calling it the 3.5 generation is also funny. So would people be born in 1800 considered being born in the 20.5th century?;; And up until now, we've never called 1.5th or 2.5nd generation... What do you guys think?
People are only saying they want to count the 4th generation from 2019 because they want to call ITZY and TXT the 4th generation but other fans hate this... Do they hate it to be labelled as 3rd generation..?
> It's because they can't win over the top of the 3rd generation and their scores can't rival Ex-Bang-Wan and Seventeenㅋㅋㅋㅋ Right now, the rising idols from 3rd and 3.5th generation are getting intertwined with the 4th generation because their results are similar
>I agree, groups that debuted before 2019 just cannot be considered 4th generation. A group like Wanna One that debuted in August 2017 is definitely the 3rd generation, so tell me how The Boyz who debuted in December 2019 is suddenly the 4th generation...ㅋㅋㅋㅋ And Stray Kids, Izone which debuted in 2018 might be considered 3.5th generation, but they're definitely not 4th generationㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ TXT, Aespa, ITZY, StayC, Treasure, kids like that are definitely the 4th generation. BTS is definitely the top of the 3rd generation, but if I really had to make the cut, ITZY and TXT are 4th generation to me
the 4th gen thing is even confusing for knetz
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I didn't necessarily mean the music but the way kpop is consumed, as you talked about hit songs and Exo's almost instant rise—I don't see a point in applying these standards to 4th gen groups for several reasons, including the change in Korean consumption and regard for kpop, or the massive international popularity of 3rd gen extending the timeframe for 3rd gen groups in which it is possible to "stay on top" (which, of course, doesn't mean 3rd gen and 4th gen can't coexist)
I don’t see it as extending the time for 3rd gen I see it as not having a requirement for a new gen.
Anyway like I said it mostly exists so accomplishments can look better so for me anyone debuted after 2016 can be clubbed as 4th gen so they don’t feel left out as well.
yuh
I see, understandable
every time this same thread, what will this change in your life?
yes any group came in 2019 and after is a 4th gen. Periodt.
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