Why are some hanteo and gaon differences considered suspicious to some stans?
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Salt.
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Because they are idiots.
The Gaon system is pretty good. They adjust monthly for albums that have been sent back, compare that to something like Japan's system who don't do that so you can end up with over-inflated sales.
No retailer is holding stock they can't sell/don't think they can sell. It makes no monetary sense. The gap will depend on multiple aspects.
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I'd drag but I can't remember which is which
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I always love the argument that it's rigged like these aren't readily available numbers published every single week/month/year. I guess companies are also paying off everyone else in industry to not care about it.
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I always love the argument that it's rigged like these aren't readily available numbers published every single week/month/year. I guess companies are also paying off everyone else in industry to not care about it.
They think agencies are buying their own albums
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I'd drag but I can't remember which is which
Yup, I am always mixing up the in-store purchse with the shipped ones
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Yeah they do.
In the grand scheme of things as people have mentioned, it's just salt.
They don't even trust Hanteo numbers if it fits their narrative. M&M breaking records had Izone fans complaining about sajaegi to them to the extent they had to clarify the numbers. What they want to hype up depends on the narrative
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What do u think about izone's small gap in hanteo and gaon compared to twice? Is this their company's incompetence?
Why would it be incompetence. It's down to the geographical distribution of their fans and where they buy it from.
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All I know is, my Target is out of Formula of Love. The nearest is 45 miles away.
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Yeah they do.
In the grand scheme of things as people have mentioned, it's just salt.
They don't even trust Hanteo numbers if it fits their narrative. M&M breaking records had Izone fans complaining about sajaegi to them to the extent they had to clarify the numbers. What they want to hype up depends on the narrative
It happened with EWO too didn't it, I remember some nb articles
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What do u think about izone's small gap in hanteo and gaon compared to twice? Is this their company's incompetence?
Iz*One fans are pretty much like most Produce fans, record driven. Which if we see say TWICE sales go up generally we've seen things like MV views, spotify streams, global charting improve and that kind of accounts for the album sale growth.
Iz*One seemingly went from selling 250,000-ish albums to more than double in a 6-7 months period with no notable increases to any other metrics, from this we can discern a lot of the growth in sales is attirbuted to fandom mass buying.
Another way we can back this up is looking at their highest ever selling album about is around 560,000 shipments, with over 400,000 on Hanteo. That's fine, but what is interesting is one of the biggest contributors to Iz*One's sales is their large Japanese fandom, yet that album has around 40,000 Oricon sales only.
That's strangely low, so this makes me lean into the main theory people have about Iz*One's small ratio, their fans intentionally target Hanteo stores to buy from, where other groups will generally buy for convenience and just purchase from the easiest shop Iz*One fans generally specifically target Hanteo records, which is also why after 1-2 months their sales almost completely stop.
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The disbandment scare really blew up izone sales.
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Iz*One fans are pretty much like most Produce fans, record driven. Which if we see say TWICE sales go up generally we've seen things like MV views, spotify streams, global charting improve and that kind of accounts for the album sale growth.
Iz*One seemingly went from selling 250,000-ish albums to more than double in a 6-7 months period with no notable increases to any other metrics, from this we can discern a lot of the growth in sales is attirbuted to fandom mass buying.
Another way we can back this up is looking at their highest ever selling album about is around 560,000 shipments, with over 400,000 on Hanteo. That's fine, but what is interesting is one of the biggest contributors to Iz*One's sales is their large Japanese fandom, yet that album has around 40,000 Oricon sales only.
That's strangely low, so this makes me lean into the main theory people have about Iz*One's small ratio, their fans intentionally target Hanteo stores to buy from, where other groups will generally buy for convenience and just purchase from the easiest shop Iz*One fans generally specifically target Hanteo records, which is also why after 1-2 months their sales almost completely stop.
izone sales blow up bc of the pd scandal and them being put on hiatus for some month, izone fandom was mostly from korea if u saw how they voted in literally every poll, specially in melon last year
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Also for what it's worth... these are not the only two charts which count different.
Billboard's charts for instance is built on SoundScan's numbers which is similar to Hanteo in which you have to be a part of their network for sales to count toward the chart.
However the Recording Academy came up with their own metric to count sales from all retailers, even ones outside of SoundScan, which is what they use to certify if a song/album goes gold/platinum/diamond etc.
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Also for what it's worth... these are not the only two charts which count different.
Billboard's charts for instance is built on SoundScan's numbers which is similar to Hanteo in which you have to be a part of their network for sales to count toward the chart.
However the Recording Academy came up with their own metric to count sales from all retailers, even ones outside of SoundScan, which is what they use to certify if a song/album goes gold/platinum/diamond etc.
I think even japan has two : oricon and billboard sales?
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I think even japan has two : oricon and billboard sales?
I believe you are correct. I've also heard the term "Oricon retailers" but I don't know if they're similar to Hanteo/Soundscan or just like their actual stores or something.
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Iz*One had a very large Japanese fanbase, to the point that their highest Billboard Japan sales for a single are close to 400,000. Yet they are selling 20-40 thousand only on Oricon? That's a pretty wild swing.
Sales blowing up after the hiatus would likely only extend to one album since they would essentially fall back into a standard release schedule like prior hiatus. However their sales remained within the 450-500k region even though no other metrics took a notable rise, in fact some had fallen.
Also we again see very poor legacy sales, shipments almost completely stopping after 1-3 months, very frontloaded.
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Korean NCT fans literally had to contact gaon for an official statement about how their sales tracking works because of how tired the whole fandom is of these salties refusing to accept that yes, NCT are capable of selling that much.
They think agencies are buying their own albums
I think it's actually the opposite. If a company buys back their own albums there would be a higher reported Hanteo number (albums are supposedly sold but not shipped anywhere, stores or individuals)
If I recall correctly there was such an occurrence with 4minute circa 2010 or 2011, it was revealed that Cube did some buybacks after an investigation sparked by an odd Hanteo - Gaon ratio (much higher Hanteo number).
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The disbandment scare really blew up izone sales.
Yes it did, but not their fandom. Fans just bought more, raised more money, mass purchased, etc. As I said their sales went up inorganically and their fandom when mass buying specifically targeted Hanteo retailer to chase records.
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If you are genuinely wondering why then I’ll try to explain why some other people think it’s suspicious.
I didn’t also understand this gaon hanteo debate until I read this topic on a Reddit thread for more insight
From my understanding, hanteo counts only hanteo certified stores so it reflects actual customers buying the album off the shelf so it’s like confirmed sales whiles gaon is like the whole distribution between retailers and distributors. Not all stores worldwide are hanteo certified but due to the popularity of kpop, a lot of foreign stores are getting hanteo certified currently
So before this popular groups who had a lot of international fans used to have a wide gap between their hanteo and gaon figures due to many international stores not being hanteo certified. I’ll use BTS as an example because that’s the group I’m more aware of. BTS used to have wide gaps between their hanteo and gaon because of this reason but now their gap has become smaller due to more international stores getting certified.
I think the reason why people are questioning nct gap is because they have a wider gap than even BTS, which is like the group we are expecting to have the largest gap because of how much their albums are in demand so a lot of international non certified hanteo stores stock up on them.Imo I think it’s a problem of over shipping for nct but who knows.
At the end of the day Gaon will reflect these numbers later after albums that lose their shelf life return to the company and are accounted for. That’s also the reason why gaon numbers are used more for end of year shows and hanteo is rather used for music shows since that one is more accurate for realtime fan consumption and gaon is more useful for total consumption including fan consumption that aren’t accounted for by hanteo later after the discrepancies have been settled.
So we should just wait and see. I hope I explained it well
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Yes it did, but not their fandom. Fans just bought more, raised more money, mass purchased, etc. As I said their sales went up inorganically and their fandom when mass buying specifically targeted Hanteo retailer to chase records.
Iirc, isn't Fiesta the best charting izone song? It stayed for a long time in charts so it wasn't only the fandom working,but the public paying more attention to them which means more ppl entering the fandom. That could explain how the next album (the Secret Story of the Swan one) sold so much and it also had multiple versions, more than their previous releases, so it kinda explains them hurting a new peak in sales with it.
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Hanteo reports sales at Hanteo certified stores.
Gaon reports shipments to ALL stores. Then adjusts the total if returns occur.
Gaon is much more accurate.
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ain't that complicated.
Hanteo is albums bought by stores.
Gaon is albums actually bought by people (after stores do their returns monthly)
It’s the opposite.
Gaon counts shipments not actual sales. It's albums shipped to retailers by the distributor (in some cases the number can go down if some albums are shipped back to the distributor).
Hanteo is albums sold to customers by hanteo-certified retailers and updates in real time.
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If you are genuinely wondering why then I’ll try to explain why some other people think it’s suspicious.
I didn’t also understand this gaon hanteo debate until I read this topic on a Reddit thread for more insight
From my understanding, hanteo counts only hanteo certified stores so it reflects actual customers buying the album off the shelf so it’s like confirmed sales whiles gaon is like the whole distribution between retailers and distributors. Not all stores worldwide are hanteo certified but due to the popularity of kpop, a lot of foreign stores are getting hanteo certified currently
So before this popular groups who had a lot of international fans used to have a wide gap between their hanteo and gaon figures due to many international stores not being hanteo certified. I’ll use BTS as an example because that’s the group I’m more aware of. BTS used to have wide gaps between their hanteo and gaon because of this reason but now their gap has become smaller due to more international stores getting certified.
I think the reason why people are questioning nct gap is because they have a wider gap than even BTS, which is like the group we are expecting to have the largest gap because of how much their albums are in demand so a lot of international non certified hanteo stores stock up on them.Imo I think it’s a problem of over shipping for nct but who knows.
At the end of the day Gaon will reflect these numbers later after albums that lose their shelf life return to the company and are accounted for. That’s also the reason why gaon numbers are used more for end of year shows and hanteo is rather used for music shows since that one is more accurate for realtime fan consumption and gaon is more useful for total consumption including fan consumption that aren’t accounted for by hanteo later after the discrepancies have been settled.
So we should just wait and see. I hope I explained it well
And it was also explained that BTS and other hybe groups have such smaller gap than other acts because weverse, the official store where most of purchases for hybe acts come from, have hanteo certification. Before BTS used to have nearly 1 million gap, but since weverse got into the market it decreased.
Meanwhile, the official SM global shop isn't really a thing for most ifans and groups like nct 127 and superm have their international sales coming from multiple different stores,not a big one with hanteo certification like weverse.
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Hanteo reports sales at Hanteo certified stores.
Gaon reports shipments to ALL stores. Then adjusts the total if returns occur.
Gaon is much more accurate.
GAON is literally sponsored by the Korean government, it is as "official" as you can get when it comes to tracking digital and physical sales.
I do have some issues when it comes to the Digital Chart (it's too fandom biased due to mass downloads from fans of some BGs and soloists like Lim Young Won) but the Physical Chart is the gold standard for Korea.
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