Kpop is Asian pop. Japanese and chinese idols accepted because they are "korean passing"?

Quote from SAINTROSE

Not trying to be overly offensive here. It's nice that they are able to achieve their dreams as kpop idol. But it's only accepted because kpop industry wants to capitalise on those markets without losing the essence of kpop.

And i believe it's still tough for SEA idols but what jyp has done has made good looking thai idols marketable so credit to him and nickhun so having one SEA idol in a group is extremely benificial for a big 3 group. There are taiwanese idols and hong kong idols too but I guess Taiwan and hongkong can be considered part of china too because that's what ccp thinks. Indonesia is a huge market so i'm surprised no big 3 company or mnet show is trying to debut one from there. Indonesian idols can have a huge impact on a big 3 group in future.

The reason i keep saying big 3 group is because of big 3 privelege. Big 3 groups change the direction of kpop. We can add bughit to the list as well now. If you are not from big 3 or bighit, idols are not gonna make it even if company fill your whole group with chinese and japanese idols and sea idols unless u are an mnet show.

Can we see indian idols or turkish idols in future kpop groups because kpop companies want to capitalise on those markets? Imagine a country of a population 100 times higher than korea supporting one idol from a kpop group just because they belong to the same country? How is that not considered an advantage?

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I have thoughts:

The first foreign idol was SES's Shoo who was included to capitalize on the massive Japanese market.

Honestly I don't see other markets being as profitable as China and Japan, especially since elements of kpop were taken from jpop and cpop in the beginning.

Quote from SAINTROSE

You won't know unless u try it. We wouldn't have known how profitable SEA market can be if jyp didn't debut nickhun and bambam.

The SEA market did help GOT7 but the Chinese market helped Jackson + a lot of the group in sales. Because of the currency value there is less interest. Also cultural differences are a lot less in comparison. I don't know if you know Block B's scandal in Thailand, that ended their entire career.

Quote from SAINTROSE

Not trying to be overly offensive here. It's nice that they are able to achieve their dreams as kpop idol. But it's only accepted because kpop industry wants to capitalise on those markets without losing the essence of kpop.

And i believe it's still tough for SEA idols but what jyp has done has made good looking thai idols marketable so credit to him and nickhun so having one SEA idol in a group is extremely benificial for a big 3 group. There are taiwanese idols and hong kong idols too but I guess Taiwan and hongkong can be considered part of china too because that's what ccp thinks. Indonesia is a huge market so i'm surprised no big 3 company or mnet show is trying to debut one from there. Indonesian idols can have a huge impact on a big 3 group in future.

The reason i keep saying big 3 group is because of big 3 privelege. Big 3 groups change the direction of kpop. We can add bughit to the list as well now. If you are not from big 3 or bighit, idols are not gonna make it even if company fill your whole group with chinese and japanese idols and sea idols unless u are an mnet show.

Can we see indian idols or turkish idols in future kpop groups because kpop companies want to capitalise on those markets? Imagine a country of a population 100 times higher than korea supporting one idol from a kpop group just because they belong to the same country? How is that not considered an advantage?

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Also Cpop has foreigners as well.

A lot of famous Thailand and SEA idols. More successful than kpop foreign idols, as there is less stigma so long as you speak passable Chinese and like the culture. A plus if you are talented.

I should've used my half Japanese half White privilege to my advantage then. I could've been famous right now. I could've starred as the love interest in G-Dragon's MV. I could've been drinking coffee with Taeyeon rn. I could've interviewed Hyoyeon or Soyeon. Instead I'm a nobody writing on a pointless kpop thread,

Quote from SAINTROSE

interesting. I have never taken any interest in cpop yet. Do they have videos on youtube?

Uh China is cracking down on cpop rn so I really wouldn't invest too much but it is more lighthearted and more fun. Chuang had a ton of thai idols, and Nene was even rumored to be number 1. A thai idol being number 1 on produce? Now ofc Curley (she's Uyghur as well) became 1st place for her vocals easily captivated everyone. Nene was super popular though, she placed 3rd.

Quote from silver25

I should've used my half Japanese half White privilege to my advantage then. I could've been famous right now. I could've starred as the love interest in G-Dragon's MV. I could've been drinking coffee with Taeyeon rn. I could've interviewed Hyoyeon or Soyeon. Instead I'm a nobody writing on a pointless kpop thread,

How old you are you LOL, if you were old enough....

Quote from SendFoodPics

How old you are you LOL, if you were old enough....

i'm too old now.... 24

Quote from silver25

I should've used my half Japanese half White privilege to my advantage then. I could've been famous right now. I could've starred as the love interest in G-Dragon's MV. I could've been drinking coffee with Taeyeon rn. I could've interviewed Hyoyeon or Soyeon. Instead I'm a nobody writing on a pointless kpop thread,

i hate to be off topic but your sig is making me want to stan Ateez. dude on the far left and second guy in on the right can GET THIS

I mean there's that girl from secret number - denise Dita

she's indonesian...

What I will say is kpop is slowly becoming more global so the chances of foreign non-CJK idols are growing...I'm sure there are more talents and beauties throughout asian and the rest of the world

Quote from silver25

i'm too old now.... 24

LMFAO not that bad

Quote from SendFoodPics

The SEA market did help GOT7 but the Chinese market helped Jackson + a lot of the group in sales. Because of the currency value there is less interest. Also cultural differences are a lot less in comparison. I don't know if you know Block B's scandal in Thailand, that ended their entire career.

I'm not familiar, what happened?

At least say East Asian.

Yeah sure racially it caters largely to an east Asian audience any way. So those are the idols they have. The biggest kpop hubs are East Asian(South East Asian to some extent)countries.

It’s not because they’re “Korean” passing. What a crude way of putting it.

Quote from spark

I'm not familiar, what happened?

They were disrespectful and it BLEW UP. Knets were furious, thais were furious, it was TERRIBLE.

Quote from SAINTROSE

Can we see indian idols or turkish idols in future kpop groups because kpop companies want to capitalise on those markets? Imagine a country of a population 100 times higher than korea supporting one idol from a kpop group just because they belong to the same country? How is that not considered an advantage?

Doesn't Turkey and India have their own decently sized music scene? Why would they try their chances in a far away place unless they really love Korea for some reason (kinda like some weebos try their luck in animation despite conditions and pay being pretty poor).

Now I'm trying to imagine a country with 100 times higher population than SK. This would be 50m x 100=5bi . SK isn't that puny to make such statement.

Dunno why people think SK population is very small. For most of history, Korean peninsula was at top 20/30 in terms of population. Both Koreas together would be 75m which would be higher than France and Italy. I know what you tried to mean, but it's quite a funny hyperbolic statement.

Quote from SAINTROSE

What's funny is you are counting north korea into korea's population who care about kpop like kim jong un wouldn't execute somone if they get caught with a twice album.

I guess you lack humor and reading as I mentioned the 50m figure of SK. Continue with your analysis with your lack of both and ignoring real data.

Quote from SAINTROSE

Not trying to be overly offensive here. It's nice that they are able to achieve their dreams as kpop idol. But it's only accepted because kpop industry wants to capitalise on those markets without losing the essence of kpop.

And i believe it's still tough for SEA idols but what jyp has done has made good looking thai idols marketable so credit to him and nickhun so having one SEA idol in a group is extremely benificial for a big 3 group. There are taiwanese idols and hong kong idols too but I guess Taiwan and hongkong can be considered part of china too because that's what ccp thinks. Indonesia is a huge market so i'm surprised no big 3 company or mnet show is trying to debut one from there. Indonesian idols can have a huge impact on a big 3 group in future.

The reason i keep saying big 3 group is because of big 3 privelege. Big 3 groups change the direction of kpop. We can add bughit to the list as well now. If you are not from big 3 or bighit, idols are not gonna make it even if company fill your whole group with chinese and japanese idols and sea idols unless u are an mnet show.

Can we see indian idols or turkish idols in future kpop groups because kpop companies want to capitalise on those markets? Imagine a country of a population 100 times higher than korea supporting one idol from a kpop group just because they belong to the same country? How is that not considered an advantage?

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First of all, Kpop ain't Asian pop nor east Asian pop. It is Korean pop. They obviously chose the biggest music industry that are also closer to them both geographically and culturally so China and Japan.

If we look back before twice, the only two relevant japanese idol were SES' Shoo and MIB's Kangnam and both were half Korean. Then Twice J line happened and showed how useful could be adding japanese in the group. Only then we saw so many japanese debut in kpop

With thai its strange because there are a few. And the most famous, Nikkun and Lisa, are mostly promoted in China. But in reality during 2nd gen there were more thai than Japanese (Nikkun, Mintt, Natthew) so its not common but its not something new.

With other SEA idols there are like 1 each. Kriesha for Philippines, Isaac from Malaysia, Dita from Indonesia and Hanbin for Vietnam. All of debuted recently and none of them showed how profitable their country's is. So it might take a bit before it common for them to debut.

And again kpop is Korean pop so Korean companies can choose whoever they want. They could only debut Koreans if they wanted and we can't judge them if chose "Korean passing". Because kpop is not Asian pop and it doesn't exist to be Asian representation in the western music industry.

Sorry for the long post.

Quote from SAINTROSE

Can we see indian idols or turkish idols in future kpop groups because kpop companies want to capitalise on those markets? Imagine a country of a population 100 times higher than korea supporting one idol from a kpop group just because they belong to the same country? How is that not considered an advantage?

But that's literally the main reason why they debut C, J & SEA (Thai) trainees, lol. To tap into those markets. I am not sure about India & Turkey though - they both don't have large music markets and the cultural differences would be too big. K-pop was catered to EA-SEA audience from the start, in fact the "Korean wave" started from China and spread to Chinese diasporas throughout the SEA & Taiwan, then it hit Japan.

Quote from bollino

First of all, Kpop ain't Asian pop nor east Asian pop. It is Korean pop. They obviously chose the biggest music industry that are also closer to them both geographically and culturally so China and Japan.

If we look back before twice, the only two relevant japanese idol were SES' Shoo and MIB's Kangnam and both were half Korean. Then Twice J line happened and showed how useful could be adding japanese in the group. Only then we saw so many japanese debut in kpop

With thai its strange because there are a few. And the most famous, Nikkun and Lisa, are mostly promoted in China. But in reality during 2nd gen there were more thai than Japanese (Nikkun, Mintt, Natthew) so its not common but its not something new.

With other SEA idols there are like 1 each. Kriesha for Philippines, Isaac from Malaysia, Dita from Indonesia and Hanbin for Vietnam. All of debuted recently and none of them showed how profitable their country's is. So it might take a bit before it common for them to debut.

And again kpop is Korean pop so Korean companies can choose whoever they want. They could only debut Koreans if they wanted and we can't judge them if chose "Korean passing". Because kpop is not Asian pop and it doesn't exist to be Asian representation in the western music industry.

Sorry for the long post.

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None of them actually debut in Big 4 , if Hanbin made it to Enhyphen I'm pretty sure his Vietnamese fans would be a thousand times stronger

SEA fans don't really have interest in newly debuted group, they will start to bat an eye if they have a hit song OR they are from Big 4

One of these companies should really debut a Singaporean/Indonesian boy fast considering China is restricting Kpop fanbases

I don't know why they keep debuting Thai idols though if they want the SEA market.

Vietnam, Philippines & Indonesia have much bigger populations than Thailand (which is relatively small even within the SEA region).

Quote from zuzuhhaa

don't take this the wrong way but i was convinced you're not a day over 14. and i mean that in the best way possible you always have so much energy

omg lmao. i guess i do give off that vibe

Quote from VioletPunisherr

i hate to be off topic but your sig is making me want to stan Ateez. dude on the far left and second guy in on the right can GET THIS

They are Yunho (left) and Mingi (right)! Please consider stanning. They are coming back Sep 13.

Quote from bartkun

safe markets:

Vietnam

Thailand

Philippines

Malaysia

Indonesia

India

in any case Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan are 'risky'

but honestly I'm freakin surprised that no one thought about debuting Russian female idol...

beauty of Russian girls is really diverse, they look European, mixed, Central Asian, East Asian, Turkic, etc.

basically whatever company needs...

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All of those "safe" and "risky" markets combined are not as profitable as one Korea most probably, especially in terms of album sales (both digital and physical), CFs, and all that stuff. India's idol market is also extremely tiny in addition to the miniscule size of the music market there itself.

Russian market is also not that big and idol industry there is small, so, again, not many reasons to try. There was a Russian idol though, Lana.

Quote from bartkun

To utilize market you need to create a "craze", a hype for someone. Now it ain't even properly measured. We would need members from those countries in JYPNGG, SMNGG or YGNGG to properly know what kind of opportunities it will bring.

Sometimes you just need one person in right place to ognite a movement and make popularity skyrocket asap.

Well, it has to be a big-big group to create enough buzz, and even then, it is not a given. It was easier with China & Japan because there are many people that fit the KBS and could be marketed for the Korean public. With many countries on your list, it is much harder.

Quote from bollino

First of all, Kpop ain't Asian pop nor east Asian pop. It is Korean pop. They obviously chose the biggest music industry that are also closer to them both geographically and culturally so China and Japan.

If we look back before twice, the only two relevant japanese idol were SES' Shoo and MIB's Kangnam and both were half Korean. Then Twice J line happened and showed how useful could be adding japanese in the group. Only then we saw so many japanese debut in kpop

With thai its strange because there are a few. And the most famous, Nikkun and Lisa, are mostly promoted in China. But in reality during 2nd gen there were more thai than Japanese (Nikkun, Mintt, Natthew) so its not common but its not something new.

With other SEA idols there are like 1 each. Kriesha for Philippines, Isaac from Malaysia, Dita from Indonesia and Hanbin for Vietnam. All of debuted recently and none of them showed how profitable their country's is. So it might take a bit before it common for them to debut.

And again kpop is Korean pop so Korean companies can choose whoever they want. They could only debut Koreans if they wanted and we can't judge them if chose "Korean passing". Because kpop is not Asian pop and it doesn't exist to be Asian representation in the western music industry.

Sorry for the long post.

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Wait who's Natthew i feel like I've heard of him before

Quote from 3best

But that's literally the main reason why they debut C, J & SEA (Thai) trainees, lol. To tap into those markets. I am not sure about India & Turkey though - they both don't have large music markets and the cultural differences would be too big. K-pop was catered to EA-SEA audience from the start, in fact the "Korean wave" started from China and spread to Chinese diasporas throughout the SEA & Taiwan, then it hit Japan.

Other way around. Japan was first with artists like BoA and TVXQ back in the first generation of KPOP. I haven't at least heard of any artists besides them venturing out internationally that much. If you do know artists before them though I'd love to hear who?

Quote from pravda

Other way around. Japan was first with artists like BoA and TVXQ back in the first generation of KPOP. I haven't at least heard of any artists besides them venturing out internationally that much. If you do know artists before them though I'd love to hear who?

Korean wave did not start with K-pop but with K-dramas which were broadcasted in China in the late 90s. The first overseas K-pop performances were not actually given by BoA or TVXQ but by SM's H.O.T. and their concert was in Beijing (around 2000), full venue and massive success. Essentially, starting from there, Korean entertainment started venturing all over EA & SEA - again, initially it was driven by K-dramas & some films but later K-pop became one of the main powers.

Quote from bollino

the only two relevant japanese idol were SES' Shoo and MIB's Kangnam and both were half Korean.

Are you sure about Shoo? I always thought that she was ethnically Korean, but born and raised in Japan. And according to this Wikipedia article, her mother and her father are ethnic Koreans.

Quote from wsoet

Are you sure about Shoo? I always thought that she was ethnically Korean, but born and raised in Japan. And according to this Wikipedia article, her mother and her father are ethnic Koreans.

In other website like kpop wiki and kpop profile it says her mother is Japanese, so I dont know. In both case my argument was that before twice it was rare to have idol from japan, so it is still valid.