The popularity/success tier of 4th gen gg in my opinions

I'd put Le Sserafim on A+ tier after Perfect Night

Quote from Blossomin88

S Tier = Ive, Newjeans

(Superior level)

A+ Tier = Gidle, Aespa

(Have PAK and huge hits, still charting well, and good sales)

A Tier = Le Sserafim

(Good chart and sales, haven't had a huge hit yet)

B+ Tier = Izone, Itzy, Stayc

(They have established a good reputation)

B Tier = (Low) Kep1er, (High) Nmixx

(Pretty well-known and doing okay)

C+ Tier = Dreamcatcher, Fromis, Weeekly, Billlie, H1key, Viviz, Loosemble

(Selling 50k to 100k+ above)

C Tier = Everglow, Cherry Bullet, Purple Kiss, TripleS, Kiss of Life, Rocket Punch, Wooah, Csr, Lightsum, Class:y, Limelight

(20k-50k sales)

D Tier = Secret Number, Ily1, Mimiirose

F Tier = Nuguest of the Nugu

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ive and newjeans don't belong in same tier, ive is surely S tier in korea but their international performance is very significant lacking compared to other top 4th gen groups.

Also itzy and stayc in same tier doesn't feels right

Not bad. This is the true breakdown.

S Tier = Ive, NJ, and Idle

A Tier = LSRFM and Aespa

---wall--

B Tier = Stayc and Itzy

C Tier = NMIXX, Kepler and Fromis 9

D Tier = Weeekly, Hi Key, CSM, Everglow, Wooah, Billlie, Kiss of LIfe, Triple S (these groups sell a decent amount or made at least a mild splash in the past or are up and coming)

E Tier = Purple Kiss, Lightsum, Rocket Punch, Cherry Bullet (barely hanging on)

F Tier = headed for early disbandment

To be determined are Illin', Babymon, Vcha, etc.

Dreamcatcher redebuted as such in January 2017. I can't see them as 4th gen.

Have some difficulty seeing Izone that way as well, as they disbanded before 4th gen really started flourishing. They were competing with Twice and BP, not NJ and IVE. If we purely look at their run, they were easily A+ tier when they were active, if not S tier.

I'd put Everglow higher. Even though they are not as popular as they were in their first year, they are still more well known than the likes of Wooah.

Otherwise pretty good list. I think New Jeans is having the edge over IVE at this point, but I can see IVE catching up with them if they get a big global hit.

----

Find it interesting to look at this overview, especially considering my expectations when 4th gen was first starting out.

Never thought then that (G)I-dle would overtake Itzy

Quote from thebadguy

ive and newjeans don't belong in same tier, ive is surely S tier in korea but their international performance is very significant lacking compared to other top 4th gen groups.

Also itzy and stayc in same tier doesn't feels right

ive had bigger peaks than other ggs minus nj internationally and their singles were the #1 and #2 best selling out of all 4th gen ggs in china this year + the best selling album in japan as well

You also forget that they were the first to break dddd wall and debut #23 on spotify global and #9 on bb global. Just bc this year they havent broke their previous records doesnt mean other ggs are above them at all. Quite the opposite if none managed to break their records besides hybe ggs.

Plus wonyoung literally was the 4th most searched female idol in usa this year being even above one of bp members and the only 4th gen female idol to make it to top10

Youre clearly not familiar with their game so ssh

Quote from catzi

ive had bigger peaks than other ggs minus nj internationally and their singles were the #1 and #2 best selling out of all 4th gen ggs in china this year + the best selling album in japan as well

You also forget that they were the first to break dddd wall and debut #23 on spotify global and #9 on bb global. Just bc this year they havent broke their previous records doesnt mean other ggs are above them at all. Quite the opposite if none managed to break their records besides hybe ggs.

Plus wonyoung literally was the 4th most searched female idol in usa this year being even above one of bp members and the only 4th gen female idol to make it to top10

Youre clearly not familiar with their game so ssh

Newjeans, aespa, gidle, lesserrafim all beat ive internationally

Quote from thebadguy

Newjeans, aespa, gidle, lesserrafim all beat ive internationally

I already know about lsf and nj and mentioned it in my previous post. What about g idle and aespa breaking ive's international records?

Dreamcatcher 4th gen?

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Quote from catzi

I already know about lsf and nj and mentioned it in my previous post. What about g idle and aespa breaking ive's international records?

I would had brought receipts but that's YamaChwan's job

Quote from Blossomin88

S Tier = Ive, Newjeans

(Superior level)

I disagree.

Please provide reasons why IVE is in the same tier as NewJeans, when there is a world of difference in their metrics both domestically and internationally?

NJ are their own tier at the top

Quote from YamaChwan

I disagree.

Please provide reasons why IVE is in the same tier as NewJeans, when there is a world of difference in their metrics both domestically and internationally?

Bigger peaks in SK than Nj. 2 sotys in 2 years. 5 consecutive paks per song. Bigger individual relevancy.

Broke international records without TTH help and company stans 🤷

You can bring as much receipts as you want and at the end of the day it won't change these facts

Quote from catzi

Bigger peaks in SK than Nj. 2 sotys in 2 years. 5 consecutive paks per song. Bigger individual relevancy.

Broke international records without TTH help and company stans 🤷

You can bring as much receipts as you want and at the end of the day it won't change these facts

currently sold total most albums. also touring right now. until then.

Quote from icyruios

BuT tHiS iS nOt fAiR bEcAuSe tHeY hAd mOrE yEaRs aNd oThEr gRoUpS hAvEnT tOuR

i should msg god to change timeline

Quote from icyruios

What about the kakao company stans?

You forgot that all IU fans are also fans of IVE so they are leeching off fans from the the 1372 year old singer so this isn't fair

The kakao privilege obviously helped them a lot, or something something something

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The fact that ppl only noticed Kakao because Ive became competition to their faves, their power

Kakao stans where u at???? Assemble!! Which other Kakao groups did you used to stan before Ive??

Quote from catzi

Bigger peaks in SK than Nj. 2 sotys in 2 years. 5 consecutive paks per song. Bigger individual relevancy.

Broke international records without TTH help and company stans 🤷

You can bring as much receipts as you want and at the end of the day it won't change these facts

I asked the OP, not you. I know you're overdosed on copium, evidenced by the fact you're still using frankly stupid conspiracy theories to rationalize the galaxy size difference in their international metrics.

The bigger peaks claim is laughable, since that easily goes to Ditto, no matter how much you obsess over ULs, which is a specious argument at best. But if you're determined to die on that hill, be prepared to explain how Attention (570k ULs) is a bigger song than Ditto (530k ULs).

5 PAKs is impressive, but everyone and their mother knows two facts:

1. IVE has released more albums than NewJeans

2. NewJeans would already have matched that number if their songs weren't blocked by other NewJeans songs

Three separate NewJeans songs peaked at #2 on all the charts, and the song above them each time was...a NewJeans song.

Instead of relying on data points influenced by timing and unpredictable changes in the music consumption patterns that heavily dictate ULs, you can look at a metric that aggregates and flatly compares relative digital performance.

It's not close.

Bigger individual relevance is a stupid point to bring up. Hwasa was the highest ranked female idol on Gallup this year. Do you see me trying to apply her individual popularity to Mamamoo so I can argue they're the trendiest idol group this year?

Quite literally everything you mentioned has holes I could poke or expose very easily, and even if I just let all those statements stand without protest (other than the asinine copium-fueled nonsense about TTH), it would still pale in comparison to NewJeans' accomplishments in Korea alone.

If I bring in the international achievements as well, the comparison is a joke. IVE is out of their weight class entirely.

Quote from YamaChwan

Mamamoo so I can argue they're the trendiest idol group this year?

What do you mean ? they are

Quote from YamaChwan

I asked the OP, not you. I know you're overdosed on copium, evidenced by the fact you're still using frankly stupid conspiracy theories to rationalize the galaxy size difference in their international metrics.

The bigger peaks claim is laughable, since that easily goes to Ditto, no matter how much you obsess over ULs, which is a specious argument at best. But if you're determined to die on that hill, be prepared to explain how Attention (570k ULs) is a bigger song than Ditto (530k ULs).

5 PAKs is impressive, but everyone and their mother knows two facts:

1. IVE has released more albums than NewJeans

2. NewJeans would already have matched that number if their songs weren't blocked by other NewJeans songs

Three separate NewJeans songs peaked at #2 on all the charts, and the song above them each time was...a NewJeans song.

Instead of relying on data points influenced by timing and unpredictable changes in the music consumption patterns that heavily dictate ULs, you can look at a metric that aggregates and flatly compares relative digital performance.

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It's not close.

Bigger individual relevance is a stupid point to bring up. Hwasa was the highest ranked female idol on Gallup this year. Do you see me trying to apply her individual popularity to Mamamoo so I can argue they're the trendiest idol group this year?

Quite literally everything you mentioned has holes I could poke or expose very easily, and even if I just let all those statements stand without protest (other than the asinine copium-fueled nonsense about TTH), it would still pale in comparison to NewJeans' accomplishments in Korea alone.

If I bring in the international achievements as well, the comparison is a joke. IVE is out of their weight class entirely.

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Newjeans supposedly biggest song having less uls than their debut song is pretty embarrassing

How do yall want me to take them seriously? I genuinely like nj,but u set them up sooo much

Just be content with the success they have instead of claiming shit when their soty have less gp interest than their debut song

There's literally only one user here who regularly mentions Kakao Privilege, and we all know who that is.

I quite honestly don't see anyone else on any other platform mentioning that at all. Maybe twitter? But I don't do stan twitter, since it's a cesspool where intelligence goes to drown and die.

nj made me switch to an iphone. what do you mean there no back button!

Quote from icyruios

No but this is exactly how they sound like.

The argument about company stans is that stans of the company's existing groups check out their new groups

So by that logic all the IU stans should be supporting IVE isn't it?

They just don't want to admit that this kakao privilege is a new made up phenomenon create just to downplay IVE, because I don't see anyone using this to downplay WJSN MONSTA X CRAVITY etc

Kakao privilege only specifically created and catered to IVE, I wonder why

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Exactly... Ive is the biggest Kakao group to date. It's like claiming BTS had Hybe privilege when they literally CREATED Hybe privilege

Quote from citron-icy

What do you mean ? they are

Watch me cook.

Quote from catzi

I Newjeans supposedly biggest song having less uls than their debut song is pretty embarrassing

Instead of admitting the inherent flaws in using UL peaks as an absolute measure of song popularity, you would rather dig your heels into your embarrassing take and double down on the opinion that ULs are infallible and Ditto must be less popular than Attention?

Oof.

But, following that logic, I guess I know what the biggest girl group song of 2017 really was.

Set a new all-time record, and released at the same hour as As If It's Your Last by BlackPink, in a year where Red Flavor and Knock Knock also released.

I love this UL obsession of Dives, since I get a W either way

year 2024 will be very interesting indeed!

Quote from Rarami

year 2024 will be very interesting indeed!

For the groups vying for the spots after first place

Quote from YamaChwan

For the groups vying for the spots after first place

nj should release a full album and catch up then!

New jeans and IVE aren’t in the same tier. Domestically, even if IVE is debatably bigger , Newjeans can give them a run for their money

Internationally IVE is barely competing with other ggs before Newjeans even enter the picture.

So either Newjeans gets a new tier above IVE or IVE steps down from current ranking.

Quote from YamaChwan

Watch me cook.

Instead of admitting the inherent flaws in using UL peaks as an absolute measure of song popularity, you would rather dig your heels into your embarrassing take and double down on the opinion that ULs are infallible and Ditto must be less popular than Attention?

Oof.

But, following that logic, I guess I know what the biggest girl group song of 2017 really was.

Set a new all-time record, and released at the same hour as As If It's Your Last by BlackPink, in a year where Red Flavor and Knock Knock also released.

I love this UL obsession of Dives, since I get a W either way

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Exactly Mamamoo reached their gp peak at that time and only went downhill from there

The same didnt happen to Ive who had 5 consecutive hits in a row, so ur logic isnt logicing

Besides they also have the sales, tour stats and international relevancy to match up, unlike mamamoo

Not satisfied in setting up nj, you also decided to set up mmm, just quit yama

Quote from Afriyieau1

New jeans and IVE aren’t in the same tier. Domestically, even if IVE is debatably bigger , Newjeans can give them a run for their money

Internationally IVE is barely competing with other ggs before Newjeans even enter the picture.

So either Newjeans gets a new tier above IVE or IVE steps down from current ranking.

Which other ggs Ive is barely competing with internationally? Only nj and lsf broke their records.

IVE also had 5 consecutive paks with their songs and 1 soty in 2022 and another soty in 2023 + hold record for biggest uls peak + wy and yj are currently the biggest 4th gen idols there so how exactly nj is any bigger than Ive in SK?

Quote from icyruios

Actually speaking of, which 4th gen group now holds the best numbers for touring?

Is it (G)I-DLE or ITZY? I don't know if IVE had that many yet because their World Tour is coming in 2024 only the top groups that have an established fanbase can have that not everyone has that

ive had their prom queen tour

Catzi and Yama , a match made in heaven.

Quote from icyruios

Yeah but I think (G)I-DLE and ITZY also had world tours so I'm curious about it.

im checking. gidle it showing 2 tours with a total of 44 shows

itzy had their checkmate tour last year

Quote from icyruios

Actually speaking of, which 4th gen group now holds the best numbers for touring?

Is it (G)I-DLE or ITZY? I don't know if IVE had that many yet because their World Tour is coming in 2024 only the top groups that have an established fanbase can have that not everyone has that