RE : Why is it hard for most people to accept there is big companies privilege

  • Go back to November 2021 and everyone thought ive will be a mega flop. After all they are a post produce group. Now come to present it's all because of produce. Here's the difference. Wonyoung and yujin got chosen and worked for 2 whole years in izone to earn it and get the so called benefits. Big3 gets that without having to lift a finger. Many big3 stans want to now talk about produce privilege cause your precious babies are getting out done is some areas.

    Also I do agree coming from hybe helped le sserafim charting well way more than sakura and chaewon. Both are not known by gp. Hybe had clout.


    OP

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  • atropos

    Changed the title of the thread from “RE :” to “RE : Why is it hard for most people to accept there is big companies privilege”.
  • Most people used big companies privilege to downplay group's achievement. That's why it is hard for big companies stans to admit the truth. They know themselves that their faves are more beneficial than the other group who is coming from a smaller company. However, admitting it is like admitting my faves only successful because they are from big companies so they will never admit it.


    and for people who talks about Wonyoung's privilege, it just not the same.

  • groups from big companies are hyped even before debut, that's not the case with starship groups or at least not that much. It's because people care about wonyoung and yujin enough that they even paid attention but for these members you can barely can call it a privilige since it's their own doing. You're right about A though, but idk how long that's gonna last. About B and C post IOI groups had that too at the beginning but they still flopped

  • Company privilege is legacy and hype. The hype and fan that is cultivated just by an announcement of big3 debut is unparalleled. It can't be replicated by ad campaigns, playlisting, or music show or variety.

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  • 'Cause it just takes the merit out of their favs.


    However, it should be qualified by specifying that there are several degrees of privileges.


    Groups from BIG3 & HYBE have the most privileges, it's undeniable. Companies have power, established fanbases, distribution networks... (TxT, le sserafim, Blackpink, Treasure, Twice, ITZY, NMIXX, SKZ, RV, Aespa, NCT ... ).


    There are groups like IVE and (G)I-DLE which come from less prestigious companies but which have resources and a certain power, their main lack is above all that there is no fanbase of the companies.


    And then there are the nugu, the real like Majors, who have no privileges and really have a lot of hardship to go through to gain popularity. The companies have no money, no power, no distribution network, no fans...


    A group like IVE does not have the privilege of having a fanbase at the start like a BIG3 group, except that in their specific case if the group had one with the popularity of some of its members before the start of the group. The only privilege it really lacks is starship relationships with international distribution networks. We shouldn't try to pass them off as a nugu group like MAJORS is because it's not true.


    Many big3 stans want to now talk about produce privilege cause your precious babies are getting out done is some areas.

    True. and the fanbase that is most in denial of privileges is by far the Blinks who try to build a fake dramatic narrative around the group. Even here I have seen a lot.

  • groups from big companies are hyped even before debut, that's not the case with starship groups or at least not that much. It's because people care about wonyoung and yujin enough that they even paid attention but for these members you can barely can call it a privilige since it's their own doing.

    That's true and not true at the same time. Woonyoung's popularity has been very underestimated by international fans, I think many here forget that she inherited the same nickname as G-Dragon no need to say more about her popularity in korea I think.

  • F, Able to work with quality choreographers

    G, Able to work with the best stylists, and afford nicer outfits etc.

    H, Better and high quality mvs

    I, Able to continue getting regular, high quality comebacks even if you underperform at debut


    And the things you mentioned are already BIG advantages. Imagine being guaranteed tons of promotion just by debuting, going on shows other groups dream of being invited to.


    I can't think of a single aspect where being from a big agency doesn't provide an advantage.

  • True. and the fanbase that is most in denial of privileges is by far the Blinks who try to build a fake dramatic narrative around the group. Even here I have seen a lot.

    I won't deny blackpink's privilege. No group could have ever debuted with a pak otherwise. But i do think bp is a group that did go much further with their success that's beyond big3 privilege. Cause other big3 ain't touching them.

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  • There are groups like IVE and (G)I-DLE which come from less prestigious companies but which have resources and a certain power, their main lack is above all that there is no fanbase of the companies.

    Ive and gidle are more standouts than the norm. Just look at how well cravity or lightsum is doing. They are not even mid tiers.

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  • Ah yes, the hype argument, which is just an extension of the 'company stan' hill.


    This argument ignores several facts tho. Several big 3 groups have flopped on debut and several non big 3 haven't. Several big 3 groups used to sell like 30-60 thousand with their debut albums and now we have non big 3 selling upward of 400k in their first month or 2.


    I'm sorry but ya'll have only anecdotal evidence, evidence ya'll parrot but fail 100% of the time to expand on or even prove and ignore several variables such as smaller company groups being successful and several big 3 groups failing.

    the groups that flopped under big 4 companies just don't have mass appeal. It's as simple as that. If it didn't work out in a big company, let alone if they were under a small or midtier company :wellr:

  • Several big 3 groups have flopped on debut and several non big 3 haven't. Several big 3 groups used to sell like 30-60 thousand with their debut albums and now we have non big 3 selling upward of 400k in their first month or 2.

    Way more mid to nugu company groups have flopped at debut than big3? Which non big 3 gg will sell 400k without a hit? Stayc even with songs performing much better than nmixx can't pull a 400k. Gidle hasn't done it yet. Only ive has because of a hit.

    Even in bgs u can see the difference in boyz sales and the big3/hybe. This was a very bad example.

    Also if it's kep1er, I'd say they are in a way u can say they are kinda equal privileged due to them being from mnet.

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  • Because some people were using “big company privilege” to downplay successful Groups who were coming from these companies. It even went as far as downplaying their skills and implying that they don’t work hard enough. This of course didn’t sit well with fans and they couldn’t hear it anymore, cause the privilege alone didn’t made them stay relevant and successful. It just gave them a push in noticeability for people to check them out… that’s all.


    Also there is no point in bringing that up and very often if it is brought up it’s often used to shade.

  • privilege alone didn’t made them stay relevant and successful

    I'll agree with this to some extent. Privilege cannot take you far if the group lacks good music for too long and it factor. But still more successful in these conditions than some small company group would be.

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  • Ive and gidle are more standouts than the norm. Just look at how well cravity or lightsum is doing. They are not even mid tiers.

    Yes cause they've no fanbase that's what i say. But look at their MV, production ... They don't lack money, they go on music show, they have established networks and contacts in the industry ...


    When MAJORS debuted they got no music show, their first time as Inkigayo, Music bank ... was 2 months ago only. that's the real nugu, they have absolutely nothing. ;(


    I won't deny blackpink's privilege. No group could have ever debuted with a pak otherwise. But i do think bp is a group that did go much further with their success that's beyond big3 privilege. Cause other big3 ain't touching them.

    First it's not an attack against you, sorry if you took it as an attack it wasn't :saint:


    Blackpink is by far the group that has had the most privilege among all the groups. We have to put things in context to fully understand. They come from the same company than the biggest 2nd gen group BIGBANG, and one of the most popular GG in Korea 2NE1. We all forget it here, but YG really dominated during the 2nd generation.


    The dissolution of 2NE1 was stupid or not in any case, Blackpink will not have had the competition of its senior group, and Bigbang quickly left their place also with the scandals which gave all the attention of the YG fanbase on a single group.


    It's also the company of "Gangnam style" the biggest Kpop hit ever. The company therefore had access to many relations abroad and especially in the West where the others had very few. G dragon had affairs with Chanel in 2015, the contracts with the luxury obtained by Blackpink also early do not come from nowhere either, YG had already established contact with these companies with their former artists in particular G dragon.


    They had by far the most privilege more than any group has had so far. They are for me the anti BTS. We see it today with the new groups, which also gain a lot of privilege quickly.

  • Honestly most groups have the privilege of money unless they're from a very small company. If you're in a mid-tier company and that company can afford to give you multiple comebacks a year even though your group may not be turning a decent profit? That's privilege.

  • Not some of you guys coming for IVE saying about all the privileges they have from Produce


    Remember back you guys said how everyone will flop because Produce fans won't support post IZ*ONE groups/solos. Now y'all change the narrative to say they have Produce privilege


    :pepe-cringe::pepe-cringe::pepe-cringe:


    Also, no one is stopping Big 3 from sending their trainees to produce it's their own fault if they don't want to. Produce isn't a privilege, it is literally a free platform for any company to use, Big 3 companies ochose not to. That is their problem.

  • This discussion is very complex. Maybe some non-Big4 groups would be less successful than they are coming from a nugu/mid tier company, while maybe some Big4 groups would be even more successful If they were managed by a nugu/mid-tier company. Because, more important then talent, visuals, charisma, resources, I think marketing done right is everything. And some companies just have the right marketing that will fit perfect for an especifc group of people.

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  • And the groups that are non big 3 and flop do have mass appeal? Such as?

    The ones that do well obviously. Bts sistar t ara had hits despite not having much hype at or before debut unlike some of the other groups who could afford to release songs that didn’t do so well but could still bounce back easier. It took Bts years to even be a top group

  • The ones that do well obviously. Bts sistar t ara had hits despite not having much hype at or before debut unlike some of the other groups who could afford to release songs that didn’t do so well but could still bounce back easier

    YES SISTAR BEST GG EVER


    :pepe-excited::pepe-excited:


    Literally built Starship, without Sistar there wouldn't be a Monsta X/WJSN/Cravity/IVE


    Thank you Sistar for letting your juniors spend your money


    :pepe-pray::pepe-pray::pepe-pray::pepe-pray:


    Sistar Gif - Gif Abyss

  • I mean Idle, Ive, Kep1er, IzOne, Wanna One, etc.


    Also not really sure why we wouldn't include Hybe groups, seems like the narrative has switched in this thread since it's about legacy and hype at one point but now it isn't.


    I mean privilege in Kpop exist, but it doesn't end with the big 3. You'd have to be a fucking idiot to think that. A serious moron.

    You really went and mentioned three Produce/Gp999 groups.


    And Kep1er's debut was crap. Everything about it (song, mv, choreography, styling) has been criticized. People's first reaction to it was literally that it looked dated and low budget.


    Latata is a popular song but it's not like the mv, styling, choreography etc. is that great. It's an okay debut but compare it to Itzy's debut it's not nearly as polished. Gidle's comebacks started to look better after they got a hit.


    The thread is about "big companies privilege". Hybe is definitely included in that. And who said this thread was about legacy only?

  • When MAJORS debuted they got no music show, their first time as Inkigayo, Music bank ... was 2 months ago only. that's the real nugu, they have absolutely nothing. ;(

    The company can't even give basic requirements until now??? They really lack in exposure itself. But i guess many nugus go through this.

    They come from the same company than the biggest 2nd gen group BIGBANG, and one of the most popular GG in Korea 2NE1. We all forget it here, but YG really dominated during the 2nd generation.

    I won't deny the clout that yg and bigbang gave to their juniors. But let's not act like ikon and winner didn't debut with hits. All started in the same position.

    Blackpink will not have had the competition of its senior group

    Which big3 had the senior group competition in 3rd gen? 2nd gen in general was slowing down from group activities.


    had affairs with Chanel in 2015, the contracts with the luxury obtained by Blackpink also early do not come from nowhere either, YG had already established contact with these companies with their former artists in particular G dragon.

    Blackpink has way better and bigger relationships with their fashion houses. No kpop group members has anywhere close to that in any gen. I am not denying ygs connections and etc because they do have that. But bp girls succeess is way beyond that. Connections won't get you there only

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  • personally I’ve seen many people say Ive does well only because of wonyoung and only then people respond their faves had company privilige to shade back, especially on anons. Ive def has privilige, just not more than groups from big companies. But it’s true that a group needs more than just company privilege to do well. It just gives a guarantee your debut will do decent and that many eyes are on you but small companies don’t even have that. And let’s not forget that in general, groups from big companies are often better put together than from small companies and people now have trust so it isn’t without reason but it isn’t always the case

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  • mean Idle, Ive, Kep1er, IzOne, Wanna One, etc.

    Yes mnet groups who everyone agrees are privileged. We all know they rival big3+hybe in fandom power. Before even gp but that's gone since long time.

    And absolutely hybe is included. I even mentioned in op. But hybe is largely made by bts. And it's bts power which has got them here. They are THAT BIG

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  • not all company are able to make those at least to the extent big 3/4 does, they have less resources, less connections. Big 3/4 already has loyal company stans which smaller companies don't have. People always give big company groups 2nd, 3rd, 4th so on chances while small company groups pretty much lose hype after only one flop comeback. Also big 3/4 rookies always has their seniors to make tiktok challenges with them and help promote their song, while it is not the case for groups debuting first from their company. Also people in general has much more trust in big 3/4 companies, no one trust some nugu company.

  • I don’t know how people with a straight face claim Ive doesn’t have extremely high privilege. Their DEBUT song was hit on Spotify, Melon AND had high sales


    That is the DEFINITION of privilege aka having hype and fans right at debut.


    People keep bringing up I.O.I and other produce as examples like that proves anything. :angryr: :cryingr:



    You can claim a group doesn’t have privilege if and only if it takes some time for them to pick up. You can’t be claiming records for your debut song and in the same breathe claim that your favs have less privilege. It doesn’t work like that.

  • Group coming from big companies always have more attention from the public than the group.

    That's the privilege.

    It is not really that hard to understand that group coming from big always have more attention from the public than smaller company.

    Like even IVE for example, they charted great, but if we talk about fandom and attention, NMIXX, Lesserafim is still beating them because they are from big.

  • Yes, which I agree with. I even go on in a later comment to mention their is a divide in privilege in Kpop.


    My point is several agencies exist where they can comfortably meet all of the above criteria in spite of not being big 3 so it's difficult to understand what defines the privilege these big 3 groups avail of where theirs don't.


    People seem to be splitting it into two camps. Big 3 vs tiny nugu company and ignoring all and everything in between who have money, successful seniors and groups with decent sized fan bases too.

    I have said big 3/4 companies have way more connections & resources than any other companies out there. Can u give me an example those agencies that on the level of big 3/4?

  • they sure have privilege, but not just to the extent big 3/4 groups does. Also their song didn't smash instantly it has been climbing on the charts, so its not really just fan and hype.

  • I don’t know how people with a straight face claim Ive doesn’t have extremely high privilege.

    Extremely high privilege? U would say they have more privilege than aespa and nmixx because the latter two were mega flops at debut?

    Also the source of privilege is different. One came from being popular in izone and another through just showing face or sometimes not even doing that lol. Also ive sold less than nmixx with izone members included.

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  • Yeah, so like I asked earlier. Is it just that? Pre debut hype?


    I mean forget that you have to actually do something with that hype.


    Also on the point of IVE has any Big 3 gg ever had a bigger selling 1st and 2nd physical release than them?


    not just pre debut hype.

    group coming from big will always have attention throughout their entire career as an idol group both internationally and domestically.

  • they sure have privilege, but not just to the extent big 3/4 groups does. Also their song didn't smash instantly it has been climbing on the charts, so its not really just fan and hype.

    That’s just arbitrarily trying to qualify the privilege.


    Climbing on charts is nothing new so did Aespa’s song and so is LSFM. Big hits have all been climbing slower on the charts. Even aespa’s debut never did as well as ive’s but I know you’ll claim this is because the song was better which is fine I’ll agree to it. But if aespa’s “company” didn’t give them a huge a hit at debut with a bad song but exactly was the privilege they had that ive didn’t if they too had to wait for a public loving song to have a hit? And ive’s physical sales was always never going to be a question. They are not lagging behind terribly.


    There is nothing in ive’s performance to claim they have less privilege than that of the 4th gen GGs. Those are the facts based on how well their debut did.


    It’s just weird for me when people whose DEBUTS are hits want to talk about having less/more privilege at all. :angryr: :cryingr:

  • Okay, so one group in Kpop history?

    You aren't making much of a point because like i mentioned the sales climate is different from end of 2019/2020. Blackpink was bigger than any of these ggs but weren't pulling insane sales with 500k in the respective years with square up and ktl mini because of smaller market. Le Sserafim will outsell eleven single album. Guess we have to wait for nmixx and Le Sserafim 2nd releases.

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