RE : Why is it hard for most people to accept there is big companies privilege

Most people used big companies privilege to downplay group's achievement. That's why it is hard for big companies stans to admit the truth. They know themselves that their faves are more beneficial than the other group who is coming from a smaller company. However, admitting it is like admitting my faves only successful because they are from big companies so they will never admit it.

and for people who talks about Wonyoung's privilege, it just not the same.

comparing the privilige of coming from a big company to having a few popular members is just laughable

Quote from TheBotter

If your company is

A, Able to work with quality producers.

B, Able to book music show appearances.

C, Able to get you spots on variety.

D, Able to leverage your group millions of playlisting reach.

E, Able to afford an extensive Youtube ad campaign.

Than the gap in 'company privilege' ceases to exist. Sorry. I just fail to see what disadvantages your faves are supposedly working with.

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groups from big companies are hyped even before debut, that's not the case with starship groups or at least not that much. It's because people care about wonyoung and yujin enough that they even paid attention but for these members you can barely can call it a privilige since it's their own doing. You're right about A though, but idk how long that's gonna last. About B and C post IOI groups had that too at the beginning but they still flopped

'Cause it just takes the merit out of their favs.

However, it should be qualified by specifying that there are several degrees of privileges.

Groups from BIG3 & HYBE have the most privileges, it's undeniable. Companies have power, established fanbases, distribution networks... (TxT, le sserafim, Blackpink, Treasure, Twice, ITZY, NMIXX, SKZ, RV, Aespa, NCT ... ).

There are groups like IVE and (G)I-DLE which come from less prestigious companies but which have resources and a certain power, their main lack is above all that there is no fanbase of the companies.

And then there are the nugu, the real like Majors, who have no privileges and really have a lot of hardship to go through to gain popularity. The companies have no money, no power, no distribution network, no fans...

A group like IVE does not have the privilege of having a fanbase at the start like a BIG3 group, except that in their specific case if the group had one with the popularity of some of its members before the start of the group. The only privilege it really lacks is starship relationships with international distribution networks. We shouldn't try to pass them off as a nugu group like MAJORS is because it's not true.

Quote from atropos

Many big3 stans want to now talk about produce privilege cause your precious babies are getting out done is some areas.

True. and the fanbase that is most in denial of privileges is by far the Blinks who try to build a fake dramatic narrative around the group. Even here I have seen a lot.

Quote from lialve

groups from big companies are hyped even before debut, that's not the case with starship groups or at least not that much. It's because people care about wonyoung and yujin enough that they even paid attention but for these members you can barely can call it a privilige since it's their own doing.

That's true and not true at the same time. Woonyoung's popularity has been very underestimated by international fans, I think many here forget that she inherited the same nickname as G-Dragon no need to say more about her popularity in korea I think.

Privelege or not................ I don't care as long I getting good music....I'm happy

Quote from TheBotter

Ah yes, the hype argument, which is just an extension of the 'company stan' hill.

This argument ignores several facts tho. Several big 3 groups have flopped on debut and several non big 3 haven't. Several big 3 groups used to sell like 30-60 thousand with their debut albums and now we have non big 3 selling upward of 400k in their first month or 2.

I'm sorry but ya'll have only anecdotal evidence, evidence ya'll parrot but fail 100% of the time to expand on or even prove and ignore several variables such as smaller company groups being successful and several big 3 groups failing.

the groups that flopped under big 4 companies just don't have mass appeal. It's as simple as that. If it didn't work out in a big company, let alone if they were under a small or midtier company

According to some: urban legend

Quote from atropos

Ive and gidle are more standouts than the norm. Just look at how well cravity or lightsum is doing. They are not even mid tiers.

Yes cause they've no fanbase that's what i say. But look at their MV, production ... They don't lack money, they go on music show, they have established networks and contacts in the industry ...

When MAJORS debuted they got no music show, their first time as Inkigayo, Music bank ... was 2 months ago only. that's the real nugu, they have absolutely nothing.

Quote from atropos

I won't deny blackpink's privilege. No group could have ever debuted with a pak otherwise. But i do think bp is a group that did go much further with their success that's beyond big3 privilege. Cause other big3 ain't touching them.

First it's not an attack against you, sorry if you took it as an attack it wasn't

Blackpink is by far the group that has had the most privilege among all the groups. We have to put things in context to fully understand. They come from the same company than the biggest 2nd gen group BIGBANG, and one of the most popular GG in Korea 2NE1. We all forget it here, but YG really dominated during the 2nd generation.

The dissolution of 2NE1 was stupid or not in any case, Blackpink will not have had the competition of its senior group, and Bigbang quickly left their place also with the scandals which gave all the attention of the YG fanbase on a single group.

It's also the company of "Gangnam style" the biggest Kpop hit ever. The company therefore had access to many relations abroad and especially in the West where the others had very few. G dragon had affairs with Chanel in 2015, the contracts with the luxury obtained by Blackpink also early do not come from nowhere either, YG had already established contact with these companies with their former artists in particular G dragon.

They had by far the most privilege more than any group has had so far. They are for me the anti BTS. We see it today with the new groups, which also gain a lot of privilege quickly.

This discussion is very complex. Maybe some non-Big4 groups would be less successful than they are coming from a nugu/mid tier company, while maybe some Big4 groups would be even more successful If they were managed by a nugu/mid-tier company. Because, more important then talent, visuals, charisma, resources, I think marketing done right is everything. And some companies just have the right marketing that will fit perfect for an especifc group of people.

Quote from TheBotter

And the groups that are non big 3 and flop do have mass appeal? Such as?

The ones that do well obviously. Bts sistar t ara had hits despite not having much hype at or before debut unlike some of the other groups who could afford to release songs that didn’t do so well but could still bounce back easier. It took Bts years to even be a top group

personally I’ve seen many people say Ive does well only because of wonyoung and only then people respond their faves had company privilige to shade back, especially on anons. Ive def has privilige, just not more than groups from big companies. But it’s true that a group needs more than just company privilege to do well. It just gives a guarantee your debut will do decent and that many eyes are on you but small companies don’t even have that. And let’s not forget that in general, groups from big companies are often better put together than from small companies and people now have trust so it isn’t without reason but it isn’t always the case

Quote from TheBotter

If your company is

A, Able to work with quality producers.

B, Able to book music show appearances.

C, Able to get you spots on variety.

D, Able to leverage your group millions of playlisting reach.

E, Able to afford an extensive Youtube ad campaign.

Than the gap in 'company privilege' ceases to exist. Sorry. I just fail to see what disadvantages your faves are supposedly working with.

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not all company are able to make those at least to the extent big 3/4 does, they have less resources, less connections. Big 3/4 already has loyal company stans which smaller companies don't have. People always give big company groups 2nd, 3rd, 4th so on chances while small company groups pretty much lose hype after only one flop comeback. Also big 3/4 rookies always has their seniors to make tiktok challenges with them and help promote their song, while it is not the case for groups debuting first from their company. Also people in general has much more trust in big 3/4 companies, no one trust some nugu company.

I don’t know how people with a straight face claim Ive doesn’t have extremely high privilege. Their DEBUT song was hit on Spotify, Melon AND had high sales

That is the DEFINITION of privilege aka having hype and fans right at debut.

People keep bringing up I.O.I and other produce as examples like that proves anything.

You can claim a group doesn’t have privilege if and only if it takes some time for them to pick up. You can’t be claiming records for your debut song and in the same breathe claim that your favs have less privilege. It doesn’t work like that.

Quote from TheBotter

So, if a non big 3 group fails...it's cos it didn't have privilege....if one is successful and gets basically all the same investment(TV spots, music shows, award shows, several comebacks and financial investment in their careers, etc) they've done that in spite of having some big disadvantage?

Like what I'm consistently failing to see explained is what are these disadvantages? I can think of certain tiny agencies who live comeback to comeback and one flop means the group is done or literally can't even call up TV stations for variety or music show appearances are of course at enormous disadvantages...

But those advantages extend beyond just the big 3(well according to other big3+hybe) so I want to know what challenges big agencies like Cube, Starship, Stone, etc face? Is it literally boiled down to debut hype?

Becuase they can afford quality producers and choreographers, investment in multiple comebacks and MVs, they have the reach and connections to book TV spots and music show appearances....I honestly don't get the big mountain infront of them?

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Group coming from big companies always have more attention from the public than the group.

That's the privilege.

It is not really that hard to understand that group coming from big always have more attention from the public than smaller company.

Like even IVE for example, they charted great, but if we talk about fandom and attention, NMIXX, Lesserafim is still beating them because they are from big.

Quote from TheBotter

Yes, which I agree with. I even go on in a later comment to mention their is a divide in privilege in Kpop.

My point is several agencies exist where they can comfortably meet all of the above criteria in spite of not being big 3 so it's difficult to understand what defines the privilege these big 3 groups avail of where theirs don't.

People seem to be splitting it into two camps. Big 3 vs tiny nugu company and ignoring all and everything in between who have money, successful seniors and groups with decent sized fan bases too.

I have said big 3/4 companies have way more connections & resources than any other companies out there. Can u give me an example those agencies that on the level of big 3/4?

Quote from ISaidISaid

I don’t know how people with a straight face claim Ive doesn’t have extremely high privilege. Their DEBUT song was hit on Spotify, Melon AND had high sales

That is the DEFINITION of privilege aka having hype and fans right at debut.

People keep bringing up I.O.I and other produce as examples like that proves anything.

You can claim a group doesn’t have privilege if and only if it takes some time for them to pick up. You can’t be claiming records for your debut song and in the same breathe claim that your favs have less privilege. It doesn’t work like that.

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they sure have privilege, but not just to the extent big 3/4 groups does. Also their song didn't smash instantly it has been climbing on the charts, so its not really just fan and hype.

Quote from TheBotter

Yeah, so like I asked earlier. Is it just that? Pre debut hype?

I mean forget that you have to actually do something with that hype.

Also on the point of IVE has any Big 3 gg ever had a bigger selling 1st and 2nd physical release than them?

not just pre debut hype.

group coming from big will always have attention throughout their entire career as an idol group both internationally and domestically.

Quote from jinaland

they sure have privilege, but not just to the extent big 3/4 groups does. Also their song didn't smash instantly it has been climbing on the charts, so its not really just fan and hype.

That’s just arbitrarily trying to qualify the privilege.

Climbing on charts is nothing new so did Aespa’s song and so is LSFM. Big hits have all been climbing slower on the charts. Even aespa’s debut never did as well as ive’s but I know you’ll claim this is because the song was better which is fine I’ll agree to it. But if aespa’s “company” didn’t give them a huge a hit at debut with a bad song but exactly was the privilege they had that ive didn’t if they too had to wait for a public loving song to have a hit? And ive’s physical sales was always never going to be a question. They are not lagging behind terribly.

There is nothing in ive’s performance to claim they have less privilege than that of the 4th gen GGs. Those are the facts based on how well their debut did.

It’s just weird for me when people whose DEBUTS are hits want to talk about having less/more privilege at all.

Quote from TheBotter

I already provided companies in post above.

I guess Cube, Stone, Starship are your examples

How do u know these companies able to do those? I don't see them going out for hitmakers or popular producers all the time. For example I usually wonder who even starship hire for cravity producer cause their music is just