Do you think vaccine injection should be compulsory?

Yes

Should anyone be forced to get it? No.

Can there be restrictions put in place if you don't get it? Yes.

I'm very against forcing someone to do something to their own body that they may not want (for any variety of reasons). But there can be consequences put in place to not getting the vaccine (like having to stay at home, or not being allowed in public gatherings, etc).

^^same as my friend above...

forced/compulsory - never...

no one should ever be forced to do something that's authoritarian and fascist...

(like what for the people that are not willing is someone going to physically drag you and sedate you to get injected)

but rather there might be penalties or limitations as to what a person can or cannot do if they aren't vaccinated...examples include limiting governmental benefits or opportunities or whatever...a non-vaccinated tax maybe????

Quote from Freddie235X

So you are for the French Health Pass?

I'm not French, so I have no opinion on their governmental decisions.

Nobody should be forced to get a vaccine.

However, nobody should be forced to share the risk either.

It goes both ways. If vaccination is a choice, people must also have a right to insist that unvaccinated people make an effort to minimise the risk to the best of their ability. By continuing to wear masks at work and in public buildings for example.

It should be for people coming into the country but I’m sure the Govr will think of compulsory vaccination soon enough as it’s chaos here and those ****wit protesters won’t help our plight either

Yea -- maybe.

Edit: No, people should not be forced. Yes people should absolutely be able to place restrictions on disease vectors.

Quote from Freddie235X

What if some don't wanna get a jab , pay off penalty / higher tax and run around town with Delta virus?

maybe potentially....

like i said you cannot force people to do something...one can impose restrictions or penalties but how does one force someone to do something?

I think if all risk is removed, sure. Lot of stuff is compulsory for the sake of the public good. I'd not call this authoritarian. Sometimes the government needs to enforce stuff for the public's own good.

For covid? I'd not enforce it initially as we are basically guinea pigs for this new forms of vaccines. In theory incentives and information campaigns about cost benefits should be enough for the majority to choose to get it. If one has no medical condition that could make it risky to get one, I think it is a non-brainer. However, at the same time anti-vaxxers and similar groups are undermining efforts to reach a critical %. If the number isn't reached, it may jeopardize any benefits that vaccine would give. Basically wasted resources and lives, so more forceful measures may be needed.

This isn't an individual choice. It's a collective choice.

Anyway, compulsory vaccinations occurred in the past like small pox in some countries. Pretty sure the benefits were worthy any perceived loss of "freedom". Fighting for individual freedom is necessary, but this is an odd hill to advocate for freedom IMO.

Quote from Freddie235X

are we forced to pay tax?

are some people convicted as criminal forced to get in jail?

i get it depends what force people is defined lol.

well no taxes aren't forced... you can evade taxes or pay less or choose not to pay at all...

in such an event then yes you are forced to go to jail

that would be correct... force may be defined differently by different people

Quote

From Wednesday, people need proof of vaccination, a negative test or recent recovery from Covid to enter most museums and cinemas.

At least they recognize those who recovered from Covid. Still it sets up a bad precedence that will be abused in the future. It is a foothold for authoritarian rule.

It’s a double edged sword.

The question is do you want to give governments that much control.

I think instead businesses should stop allowing unvaccinated people into their premises and other such measures.

For ethical reasons I don’t believe in government mandates.

Quote from Freddie235X

are we forced to pay tax?

are some people convicted as criminal forced to get in jail?

i get it depends what force people is defined lol.

Bodily autonomy is paramount. It’s not comparable to paying taxes. Or literally anything else.

do people realise you can develop heart problems from the vaccines, sure it's small percentage of people, but anyone can still develop these problems. Like i rather get the covid than risking heart failure or a heart attack.

People should have the free choice, this is some cyberpunk shit lol...

No and I am a French nurse. I am vaccinated too. The vaccin is not the problem, it's the obligation which is a problem for me. I found that discriminatory to prevent some people to go into some places because they are not vaccinated.

You can't penetrate in a French train if you don't have the Health Pass for a long journey but no problem if you go to work in a crowed subway. It makes no sense. You can't go to a restaurant or a bar but you can eat with your colleagues at your workplace in the canteen.

The president was saying someting very different three days before adopting the Health Pass. The deputees denounced the conditions in which they had to vote for this law even those who agreed with that. After his speech about the Health Pass, the president also spoke about a pension retirement reform that he already tried to adopt several times but had to step back because of public opinion. Well-done because this time when he made his announcement, no one paid attention to the pension retirement reform. Everybody was talking about the Health Pass.

No governenment should be allowed that much power and control.

There are also some exceptions like pregnant women who don't want to get the vaccine yet because there is no serious studies for them at this point regarding the vaccine and I understand them. One of my friends asked to her midwife and she told her to not get the vaccine yet, her doctor said otherwise.

As always, people going batshit crazy when it comes to the vaccine. As if we haven't been vaccinated when were kids, against diphteria, tetanus, polio, pertussis. Those have been compulsory vaccines for decades. So what's the fuss really about? Thread turns like a flat earth discussion.

French governement is basically forcing people to take the vaccine because a lot of the don't have faith in neither of them.

You can still take the train and other things without the pass, you just have to be negative... But for those who must work at restaurants, travel or working with a lot of public, doing the test everyday is impossible.

So yes, they are taking their liberty away, because their employer can fire them because of that...
And for information, you have to take a vaccine (measles) when you're young before going to school, or (hepatisis B) for health workers, and it's also mandatory...

So I agree with the pass only for (cinema, restaurants, and indoor sports) because it's non essential, but disagree to the fact workers can be fired for not taking it.

Quote from haj1ma

do people realise you can develop heart problems from the vaccines, sure it's small percentage of people, but anyone can still develop these problems. They are OK sacrificing young people health in order to save old people who already lived their life. Like i rather get the covid than risking heart failure or a heart attack.

People should have the free choice, this is some cyberpunk shit lol...

Also the vaccine is totally useless, most people dying now are fully vaccinated. They get vaccinated and go out to the public without wearing a mask and end up catching it and dying. Big L.

It's very rare to get heart problems after vaccination and almost all of them can be treated. While it's a higher possibility to get heart problems after covid infection itself.

''Also the vaccine is totally useless, most people dying now are fully vaccinated.'' This is wrong. Although it's not %100 vaccine protects against infection. Also even if you get infected it keeps you getting seriously ill.

''They are OK sacrificing young people health in order to save old people who already lived their life.''

This is also wrong. Even though elder people are in more risk everyone can get infected and die from it including healthy young adults. The mean age of patients hospitalised for Covid-19 fell and younger patients increased in ratio do you know why? Bc they started vaccination with older adults.

If you don't know you shouldn't talk and spread false information about such a serious global health problem. Read and learn no one is keeping you from that.

Not everyone can be vaccinated; for example babies, children or people with allergies. And immuncompromised patients and even a small percentage of some healthy people may not develop immunity even after getting fully vaccinated.

There is sth called population immunity. If you vaccination ratio is high you can also protect these non immune people. So even if I can't say it has to be compulsory if the vaccination ratio is low something should be done about it...

Quote from novemberrain

It's very rare to get heart problems after vaccination and almost all of them can be treated. While it's a higher possibility to get heart problems after covid infection itself.

''Also the vaccine is totally useless, most people dying now are fully vaccinated.'' This is wrong. Although it's not %100 vaccine protects against infection. Also even if you get infected it keeps you getting seriously ill.

''They are OK sacrificing young people health in order to save old people who already lived their life.''

This is also wrong. Even though elder people are in more risk everyone can get infected and die from it including healthy young adults. The mean age of patients hospitalised for Covid-19 fell and younger patients increased in ratio do you know why? Bc they started vaccination with older adults.

If you don't know you shouldn't talk and spread false information about such a serious global health problem. Read and learn no one is keeping you from that.

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I already got the coivd and I feel like the regular flu was even worse

"There are three deaths that appear to be linked to blood clots that occurred after people got the J&J vaccine. Since we now know how to correctly treat people who develop these blood clots, future deaths related to this very rare side effect can be prevented."

Until they fix this problem, then I might consider get vaccinated. I am not superhero who's going to risk their life to save the universe...

Quote from haj1ma

I already got the coivd and I feel like the regular flu was even worse

"There are three deaths that appear to be linked to blood clots that occurred after people got the J&J vaccine. Since we now know how to correctly treat people who develop these blood clots, future deaths related to this very rare side effect can be prevented."

Until they fix this problem, then I might consider get vaccinated. I am not superhero who's going to risk their life to save the universe...

There are other vaccines than J&J's you know.

Quote from haj1ma

I already got the coivd and I feel like the regular flu was even worse

"There are three deaths that appear to be linked to blood clots that occurred after people got the J&J vaccine. Since we now know how to correctly treat people who develop these blood clots, future deaths related to this very rare side effect can be prevented."

Until they fix this problem, then I might consider get vaccinated. I am not superhero who's going to risk their life to save the universe...

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Bc you didn't get it serious it doesn't mean people are not dying from it. Your logic doesnt make sense. And there is no guarantee you won't get infected again.

There are more cases of people dying from blood clotting complications after covid infections. Yes I agree it's best to increase the safety of vaccinations but not getting vaccinated due to a rare side effect is not the answer. Also there are other alternatives get pfizer for example

Quote from icyruios

To me this is super unfair. Why should the entire country wait for these elderly folks who only care about themselves? Why should the entire country be on pause because the elderly do not want to get vaccinated?

That whole (government propaganda-based) argument relies on several huge assumptions:

1) Vaccines are actually vaccines - when they are actually unapproved and experimental gene therapies.

2) Vaccines prevent COVID-19 transmission - when all of the manufacturers clearly state that they do NOT - all they can potentially do is minimize the severity of illness as it develops. Vitamin D and Zinc do the same thing, at a much lower profit for Big Pharma.

3) Cases = illnesses - when most cases remain asymptomatic, and are being identified by the badly flawed PCR tests that can't even tell the difference between COVID and influenza.

4) Social distancing and lockdowns (and even worse, mask mandates) are effective measures to control the spread of the virus - when if any of these things worked, we would not be talking about doing them a second time. The equation is simple enough for a even a politician to understand:

- If lockdowns work, why do we need another one?

- If lockdowns don't work, why do we need another one?

5) The Delta variant is somehow more dangerous that the initial versions of the virus - when the entire history of virology teaches us that newer variants of any virus are ALWAYS weaker. The illness and death rates of Delta so far are tiny, but the media never wants to mention those things since they are bad for ratings. Delta is a highly contagious cold, but no justification for a new mass panic.

6) Government is putting a whole country "on pause" for the good of the public - belief in which requires a level of naïveté on the part of that public that is almost impossible to comprehend.

There should instead be massive international public outrage at governments for trying to prolong this event to maximize their own power. European public reactions to these idiotic and unethical vaccine passport requirements so far have been heartening - it seems like people are finally waking up. Any politician advocating this kind of law needs to be flung from office so hard he will bounce twice.

Quote from TheHeretic

- If lockdowns work, why do we need another one?

What? Lockdowns work as long as you effectively stay in lockdown. Society can't and doesn't want to lockdown for a year so everytime the lockdown is lifted, a resurgence happens. Hence the vaccine.

I don't see what kind of power governments draw from this. All governments tried to minimize the epidemic at first because they were too lazy or confident to take any measures. It's only when shit hit the fan that they took measures. So I don't understand what narrative you're pushing, if not some kind of illuminati BS.

No, I don't support it. Those who want to protect themselves can easily get a vaccine. And if someone prefers to play a Russian roulette let the natural selection do its job.

We already have a compulsory vaccination for certain spheres of work in my city (the rules are not the same across the country).

***

Anti-vaxxers should not use their medical insurance if they become ill with something from which they are not vaccinated, they should pay from their own pocket.

The truth is, the vaccine is not meant against covid19 but against a future deadly virus governments of the world will unleash on the world. All those reluctant to authority will perish and only the sheeps who got vaccinated as they were told will survive! So even if you're an anti vaxxer, you'd better play a 200IQ move and get your vaccine asap.

Quote from TheBotter

Why should I, a fully vaccinated person who has practiced self isolation and not came into contact with Covid 19 in the last year, be subjected to further health risk because of other people's decisions?

If your vaccine works, why do you care what others do?

If your vaccine doesn't work, why are you trying to force others to get it?

No there shouldn't be a mandate.

But tough shit if you are unable to go somewhere or are fired for not getting it within a reasonable time frame.

But also there shouldn't be these ridiculous materialistic big incentives for people getting the vaccine as in the US such as lotteries. It's making the vaccine look like a joke and will deter people I feel. Minor ones like gift cards though are fine, which my pharmacy is doing.

Quote from Freddie235X

Figure some of the rules in health pass can better.

What would you do if you were French president?

Lol it's asking a lot from me but I will not extend the Health Pass to restaurant, bars, malls, trains...

I would try to convince French people to get the vaccine and not force them by threatening them with their social death. The WHO said that it's better to convince people than forcing them because when you do so, you end up living in a strange society to say the least. I would also target the population at risk (old people, those who suffers from obesity or any other health problem) and ask their doctor to convince them to get the vaccine.