My thoughts on kpop relevance and some more things *it's a little messed...*

1st Official Post

    First I'm not aiming at one fandom neither nothing, but this is something I noticed and yes, you don't need to agree with me :-) and i will stat things that I saw so let's go.


    I entered KPOP in 2014/15 and tbh everything is a competition (i also don't like this mentality) and in 2016, i think, KPOP views increased a lot on YouTube and so many people used it to prove a group status and this continued until 2019 i guess, but now some say that yt isn't relevant anymore... This is baffling to me bc invalidating a whole plataform just bc a group didn't get a x number of views isn't right and also using views to discredit a group isn't right either. But if you used yt as an achievement for your group and now you discarded it bc your group didn't grow that much (? Nothing new, neither shameful) then this is a case of "you", not the platform relevance.



    Charts also lost some relevance.... I think this is the most amazing to me... And i will use the same yt criteria here: if you used charts as an achievement and now you just say try to ignore it then yeah. Not the platform fault.



    Itunes weren't that relevant, but it was still used as achievement and now it's nowhere to be seen....



    There was a point that even the n° of comments were relevant :clown: kkkkkk.


    I know some will say: we grow up. We are here for the music. We are happy with our group, etc. I'm all here for it, but let's be honest.. nothing lost relevance, it's just that i feel KPOP is less "active/dominant"? Idk, i feel like we had more groups doing super great and cb being the main event almost every month, but now I don't see this excitement anymore and it feels like the rise stopped, do you guys understand?

    I know we are peaking more in some international stats, but I really feel like KPOP has lost something bc.. i will give an example: 2015/2018 (my most actives years in KPOP) there were so many groups shining and releasing hits within the kpop community and everything was growing (yt, itunes, physicals, charting, etc), but now we can count maximum 15 (or less) groups reaching all those areas and being successful in all.

    I know the pandemic isn't helping either, but groups are still cb and I'm still not seeing so many groups with great results in at least physical/digital (the most common).

    I know some will try to name me 63317 groups, but the dominance of years ago isn't here anymore to me. It could be that just i think like this, but this thought hit me some days ago as we are in August and almost no kpop release made "noise, noise".



    Anyways, idk if I'm making sense here, but this is something I wanted to share with you guys ( :danceb: ) and yes... Congrats for arriving here kkkkk

    I know the topics weren't that much related, but I just made some mix to make just one thread kkkkkk

    Byeeee!





    Disclaimer: this is an opinion thread , which isn't a fact, just my pov. If you want to disagree, please be respectful and yes.

  • monalisalove

    Changed the title of the thread from “My thoughts on kpop relevance and some more things” to “My thoughts on kpop relevance and some more things *it's a little messed...*”.

    I completely agree! I think it's because the industry is becoming more and more saturated every year which makes the popularity differences between groups even larger. Only just a few years ago, you could have multiple groups doing well, even those from small companies. Now, well known companies have complete domination over the charts and their popularity keeps growing, leaving idols from small companies more and more disadvantaged.


    Imo, an oversaturated market also means less quality music which is why I (personally!) feel like the music has also begun to decline. A lot of these groups sound very similar because they try to fit in with the ongoing trends which can also lead to decrease in interest. However, I understand the music is subjective and not everyone feels this way c:


    I've heard the Korean GP is also losing interest in kpop lately (but I could be wrong!) which is why I think there haven't been any really really popular songs (apart from aespa) this year.

    • Official Post

    People keep using this month's lack of releases as proof of something, but no one seems to notice that the Olympics just started. If you released a song this week or last week you'd have your promotions cut short because music shows are cancelled and the news cycle will be dominated by the Olympics. Of course no one is releasing anything right now. They want as many eyes on their groups are possible. Why would they throw that away by releasing a song last week and only getting to promote it on TV for a couple of days?


    I don't really care about YouTube views or charts when it comes to any form of music. None of that has anything to do with if I think a song is good. That's just bragging rights for people who are living through their faves. I think a lot of the issues people are having with kpop being boring isn't that it's declining or getting worse, it's just that you're not not as interested in it. There have been plenty of amazing releases this year and almost every group is breaking their own sales records and doing better than ever.

    Quote from quark12395

    People keep using this month's lack of releases as proof of something, but no one seems to notice that the Olympics just started. If you released a song this week or last week you'd have your promotions cut short because music shows are cancelled and the news cycle will be dominated by the Olympics. Of course no one is releasing anything right now. They want as many eyes on their groups are possible. Why would they throw that away by releasing a song last week and only getting to promote it on TV for a couple of days?


    I don't really care about YouTube views or charts when it comes to any form of music. None of that has anything to do with if I think a song is good. That's just bragging rights for people who are living through their faves. I think a lot of the issues people are having with kpop being boring isn't that it's declining or getting worse, it's just that you're not not as interested in it. There have been plenty of amazing releases this year and almost every group is breaking their own sales records and doing better than ever.

    You totally missed my point, but ok...

    Quote from potato-o

    I completely agree! I think it's because the industry is becoming more and more saturated every year which makes the popularity differences between groups even larger. Only just a few years ago, you could have multiple groups doing well, even those from small companies. Now, well known companies have complete domination over the charts and their popularity keeps growing, leaving idols from small companies more and more disadvantaged.


    Imo, an oversaturated market also means less quality music which is why I (personally!) feel like the music has also begun to decline. A lot of these groups sound very similar because they try to fit in with the ongoing trends which can also lead to decrease in interest. However, I understand the music is subjective and not everyone feels this way c:


    I've heard the Korean GP is also losing interest in kpop lately (but I could be wrong!) which is why I think there haven't been any really really popular songs (apart from aespa) this year.

    This too. I think this can be just a phase so yes.

    If Im not the best then its not relevant. The comment thing. Its so embarassing. When they say its all about the music now, its all BS.


    I agree, to a certain extent. I have a different perspective towards why theres so many groups are regarded as "not successful".


    I think I am gonna stop there. I was gonna dive deep into this, but I just cant be arsed.

    Quote from MJay14

    If Im not the best then its not relevant. The comment thing. Its so embarassing. When they say its all about the music now, its all BS.


    I agree, to a certain extent. I have a different perspective towards why theres so many groups are regarded as "not successful".


    I think I am gonna stop there. I was gonna dive deep into this, but I just cant be arsed.

    Cool and thank you for still reading through all that.. :pepepizza:

    i started posting in kpop forums back in 2010 in the original kpop forum, aka 6theory


    if i had to compare the state of the kpop community back then and now then i'd say


    2010 :

    - we had one (1) thread for digital sales and one (1) for physical sales and that was about it, practically no one talked about sales and charts outside of those 2 threads.

    - the forum was much les regulated and moderated, like you could see more freedom of expression but also more bashing and trolling.

    - we had a section called the crapper lol, all random, baity and fanwar inciting threads went there.

    - one of the mods came up with the idea of making a bashing thread, he kept merging all the bashing threads posters made in the main forum into one huge thread in the crapper and called it the official bashing thread, at first it was just that, a merger of many bashing threads but it slowly evolved and people started going there for the purpose of bashing.

    - most debates, arguments, discussion threads and even fanwars centred around talent and music.

    - discussions and threads targetting fandoms only were not allowed in the main forum. they were all sent back to the artist threads, only threads were everyone was welcome to participate were allowed in the main sections (this is a rule that i wish would come back, we have artist threads and guilds for a reason, this rule made artist threads much more active than they are now and eradicated all those random threads about unimportant things that only fans cared about)

    - dozen daily comparison threads of everything imaginable that can be compared.

    - it was easy to have fun but it was also very easy to get bullied and harassed because of the lax moderation. we had a thread called "Rant about users" and it was a horrible place, people dragging each other by name all day long, throwing personal insults and bullying each other.


    it is no wonder that early 2012 Jhonny decided to close it down all together


    2021:

    - barely any more talk about talent and music

    - achievements, charts and sales threads are swallowing the forum up

    - people became too sensitive to a stiffling point, no more freedom of expression is allowed, any negative opinions are viewed and treated as bashing, rampant ad hominem, everything became offensive which made kpop in general much more micromanaged and factory-smelling than it was during the 2nd generation.

    - a positive consequence of the above is the forum became less offensive and less of a cesspool than it used to be, people are no longer given the freedom to bash and harrass each other however they wished. there are more regulations and rules to control personal attacks and bullying, they are not always effective but it is better than nothing.

    - the kpop community became way too westernised, too many westerner fans who see the world through their western glasses and want everything and everyone to conforme to their own social values and standards with no regards to cultural differences and nuances.


    each era had its pros and cons. I know that kpop twitter is a whole different kind of cesspool, but allkpop in particular is much safer than it used to be as far as bullying and personal attacks go. i just wish we could find a balance between that and freedom of expression when it comes to sharing opinions about an artist or their music. no one should feel afraid to criticise an artist or a product just because fans might not like it and label them an anti or a troll.

    As for what you said about shifting goalposts, that's a constant in kpop. not only in achievements but also in skills. fans would vallue the skills and charts or platforms their faves excel at, if that changes then their narrative will also change automatically.



    there, you all made me write and essay AGAIN :pepe-sad:

    Did you write an essay bigger than mine?? :pepe-life-support: kkkkkkkkk

    but yes, narratives will be changed according to the group results.

    I just had to skim through that, too much reading. Frankly, I don’t care what’s relevant and what’s not as long as I enjoy the music that’s all that matters to me.

    Quote from potato-o

    I completely agree! I think it's because the industry is becoming more and more saturated every year which makes the popularity differences between groups even larger. Only just a few years ago, you could have multiple groups doing well, even those from small companies. Now, well known companies have complete domination over the charts and their popularity keeps growing, leaving idols from small companies more and more disadvantaged.


    Imo, an oversaturated market also means less quality music which is why I (personally!) feel like the music has also begun to decline. A lot of these groups sound very similar because they try to fit in with the ongoing trends which can also lead to decrease in interest. However, I understand the music is subjective and not everyone feels this way c:


    I've heard the Korean GP is also losing interest in kpop lately (but I could be wrong!) which is why I think there haven't been any really really popular songs (apart from aespa) this year.

    I feel the opposite.. before, the acts that dominate the charts mostly came from the Big three. Now, we have OMG and Brave Girl dominating the charts, which was so rare before (non big 3 idols). And they are not one hit wonders too.


    And Koreans have always look down on idol groups, you probably only realised it now lol


    There are other idol group that took Korea by storm this year (hint 2nd gen), not just aespa’s

    Quote from nevermindmejin

    I feel the opposite.. before, the acts that dominate the charts mostly came from the Big three. Now, we have OMG and Brave Girl dominating the charts, which was so rare before (non big 3 idols). And they are not one hit wonders too.


    And Koreans have always look down on idol groups, you probably only realised it now lol


    There are other idol group that took Korea by storm this year (hint 2nd gen), not just aespa’s

    this is not true at all. there were many more non big3 artists that used to have hit songs and could even be considered digimons 10 to 5 years ago than there are now


    T-ara

    Sistar / Sistar19 / Soyou

    KARA

    4minute / Hyuna

    A Pink

    AOA

    Girl's Day

    Davichi

    BEG / Gain

    After School / Orange Caramel

    Secret

    Rainbow


    CN Blue

    FT Island

    Beast / Highlight

    Infinite

    Bloc B


    not to mention soloists and indie acts


    most of these were very prominent names in the kpop industry and fan communities and many of these groups members built individual careers and names for themselves. it seemed like many artists could thrive and succeed regardless of their origin and even compete with big company groups and defeat them in certain aspects.

    nowadaysn oversaturation made it more difficult for groups that don't have leverage or company privilege to make a name for themselves. it is even bleeding into groups that do have company leverage.

    Quote from nevermindmejin

    I feel the opposite.. before, the acts that dominate the charts mostly came from the Big three. Now, we have OMG and Brave Girl dominating the charts, which was so rare before (non big 3 idols). And they are not one hit wonders too.


    And Koreans have always look down on idol groups, you probably only realised it now lol


    There are other idol group that took Korea by storm this year (hint 2nd gen), not just aespa’s

    Forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm a K-pop fan since 2019, so I'm not familiar with older acts. However, I kept hearing people talk many times about digitals and how good non-Big 3 groups were before. Or even if they weren't dominating digitally, they still managed to survive the industry.


    Groups like : T-ARA, SISTAR, Infinite, BTOB, APINK, EXID, BLOCK B, CNBLUE, F.T. ISLAND (these 2 are K-bands) etc.

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