I just think they had a slump from 2015-2017, but then came back (albeit with just 5 members) with the banger that is Lil' Touch!
Lionheart childish? The fuck. Many groups release that sort of sound but no one calls it childish.
Party is usual fun summer you find from many groups, holiday is ok but not really the song you want for 10th anniversary.
You think, CMIYC are bangers.
I do think SNSD had better songs as 9 but that's mainly because they have only 2.5 CBs as 8 compared to however many as 9. Ot8 hasn't had the time to fully establish themselves. While she was a great part of the sound missing Jessica doesn't automatically mean their music will inherently be worse esp as Seohyun and Tiffany have become better singers than Jessica. Lil Touch is one their best songs ever and that only has 2 lead singers and 3 subs.
Display MoreLionheart childish? The fuck. Many groups release that sort of sound but no one calls it childish.
Party is usual fun summer you find from many groups, holiday is ok but not really the song you want for 10th anniversary.
You think, CMIYC are bangers.
I do think SNSD had better songs as 9 but that's mainly because they have only 2.5 CBs as 8 compared to however many as 9. Ot8 hasn't had the time to fully establish themselves. While she was a great part of the sound missing Jessica doesn't automatically mean their music will inherently be worse esp as Seohyun and Tiffany have become better singers than Jessica. Lil Touch is one their best songs ever and that only has 2 lead singers and 3 subs.
Lion Heart is childish in the way SNSD as 9 would never release that kind of song. It sounds like a younger group would do.
When they were OT9 they were doing songs like Genie or Mr. Mr.
I love OT9 honestly but this post......
Display More
Side note, HYUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Side note, HYUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS I HAD TO DO MY BABY AN AESTHETIC WELL
Lion Heart is childish in the way SNSD as 9 would never release that kind of song. It sounds like a younger group would do.
When they were OT9 they were doing songs like Genie or Mr. Mr.
You forget Oh, one of their most successful songs which came after Genie? Oppa oppa ill be down down sure is mature.
And like I said as 8 they did you think, CMIYC and 5 Lil Touch. They more than have the capability of still doing "mature" sounds (mature != Better btw)
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS I HAD TO DO MY BABY AN AESTHETIC WELL
Wifey I love you lol. Look at my new profile banner though real quick 
I'm listening to SNSD's discography from beginning to now and while OT8 has decent songs like "All Night" you then have mediocre songs like Holiday, Party or childish songs like "Lion Heart".
I don't mind OT8, but SNSD now just feels forced and fake. I mainly like OT8 because I like Sunny. Holiday Night while a good pop album, SNSD needs Jessica.
I'm an OT9 all the way
I get what you're trying to say, although I think it was more nuanced than that.
Aside from Party and Lion Heart, they also had songs like Catch Me If You can and You Think and All Night and Lil' Touch.
In fact they had songs across the whole spectrum of genres, with something for everyone.
Which wasn't that different from before, where they had songs like Run Devil Run after Oh!, and so on.
What became different was SNSD themselves: it started before Jessica leaving, but it became only more noticeable afterwards: where before they were a huge non-stop presence all over the variety shows and Korean TV and had comeback after comeback, this became less and less after they stayed longer and more in Japan for concerts and song releases there.
It also started to feel a number of members lost some of their initial drive and hunger and, what became apparent later on, parts of their Soshi bond. Members had started to leave the dorm, live their own separate lives, so also their common goal started to split, with each member pursuing their own individual careers.
This plus the fact that their comebacks became more rare over the years, made that their comebacks and songs didn't have that abundant spark it had in their peak years.
Being an idol didn't have their full 100% attention, energy and motivation anymore, and with some concepts this became extra noticeable.
Display MoreLionheart childish? The fuck. Many groups release that sort of sound but no one calls it childish.
Party is usual fun summer you find from many groups, holiday is ok but not really the song you want for 10th anniversary.
You think, CMIYC are bangers.
I do think SNSD had better songs as 9 but that's mainly because they have only 2.5 CBs as 8 compared to however many as 9. Ot8 hasn't had the time to fully establish themselves. While she was a great part of the sound missing Jessica doesn't automatically mean their music will inherently be worse esp as Seohyun and Tiffany have become better singers than Jessica. Lil Touch is one their best songs ever and that only has 2 lead singers and 3 subs.
Lion Heart for me is the best post-Jessica SNSD song love the 60s feel.
Lowkey agree but I'm not here for the Lion Heart slander 
Lion Heart is childish because they were older, not because Jessica was missing. If they really wanted to release this kind of song, Jessica being here or not wouldn't have matter
The only part that could be considered childish was the intro and ending of the MV, and how the SNSD girls act in those scenes, you can notice they're finding themselves too old for it too => their reactions are extreme and over-the-top, as if they're playing stereotypical characters, while in former MV's and comeback concepts they were really feeling it, and as a watcher you could sense it.
With the retro '20-'30s vibe of the rest of the MV and the retro concept styling, there's nothing wrong with that, that retro style is not childish and it fit their ages back then. Same for the song, not really childish at all.
However, it's noticeable that (a number of) the SNSD members liked other concepts more, like You Think, and concepts like that, same for Mr Mr and All Night suited them better at that point of their career.
Display MoreLionheart childish? The fuck. Many groups release that sort of sound but no one calls it childish.
Party is usual fun summer you find from many groups, holiday is ok but not really the song you want for 10th anniversary.
You think, CMIYC are bangers.
I do think SNSD had better songs as 9 but that's mainly because they have only 2.5 CBs as 8 compared to however many as 9. Ot8 hasn't had the time to fully establish themselves. While she was a great part of the sound missing Jessica doesn't automatically mean their music will inherently be worse esp as Seohyun and Tiffany have become better singers than Jessica. Lil Touch is one their best songs ever and that only has 2 lead singers and 3 subs.
Agreed. It's just that SNSD were having fewer and fewer comebacks, so after 2014 there just weren't that many comebacks anymore, where before they were having like 2-3 (Korean) comebacks a year.
Lion Heart for me is the best post-Jessica SNSD song love the 60s feel.
Was it '60s? I was sure it was '20s-'30s, but I can be mistaken? 
Lion Heart for me is the best post-Jessica SNSD song love the 60s feel.
Yeah it's great but it's much earlier, like 1920/30s?
eh ot9 snsd is iconic, but i honestly think holiday night is their best album as a whole. lion heart the album was questionable, but the single itself never felt childish to me. party is their only post jessica single i didn't like, it's just too limp not catchy enough. it's not as if snsd didn't have enough vocal power to cover for jessica although I guess her tone was pretty unique... I came in just as she was leaving so I never really felt that attached enough to her to really notice it in songs/on stage.
Yup!!! She was a core to their sound.
Especially in japan. I know they
had issues deciding which songs could be ot8 there and probably why we didnt get another japan album or tour (a 4th one was rumored)
In the Lion Heart album its obvious jessicas voice was meant to be on these songs. Especially Sign n Lion Heart. It sounds so flat and kinda sad without her.its missing the bump it needs to fully HIT. I know there's an OT9 version of it SOMEWHERE and SM needs to leak it.
That album had barely any harmonies, it was mostly solo parts because SNSD iconic harmony was gone without her.
The only songs off that album that didnt need Jess were Check, Paradise and One Afternoon.
Also im convinced You Think was a dual single because SM wanted to be petty cause Jess debuted and was threatening to outsell snsd. Hence her being blacklisted so she wouldnt obliterate them on music shows
They finally figured it out by Holiday Night relying heavily on Taeyeon n tiffany to smooth it out but the harmonies felt heavier
The songs were ......the album felt like the last hurah! Like the final burst of energy before the party ended and everything became memories. The vibe of the album literally reads as "goodbye" n it will not be revisited.
Holiday isnt as bad as yall say it is. Yall just hate the styling. And we would have seen more and probably more mature looks if SM didnt cut the promotions.
But All Night is the best song on the album.
read between the lines. Theres basically saying theyre women now and down to bone.
Its more obvious with the demo which has a clearer sexy flair. But for some reason it was softened up for the official version.
I guess girls in high heels saying theyre "Burning Up" sounds too h*rny and the song needed some cold water.
What became different was SNSD themselves: it started before Jessica leaving, but it became only more noticeable afterwards: where before they were a huge non-stop presence all over the variety shows and Korean TV and had comeback after comeback, this became less and less after they stayed longer and more in Japan for concerts and song releases there.
It also started to feel a number of members lost some of their initial drive and hunger and, what became apparent later on, parts of their Soshi bond. Members had started to leave the dorm, live their own separate lives, so also their common goal started to split, with each member pursuing their own individual careers.
This plus the fact that their comebacks became more rare over the years, made that their comebacks and songs didn't have that abundant spark it had in their peak years.
Being an idol didn't have their full 100% attention, energy and motivation anymore, and with some concepts this became extra noticeable.
That's all true but the thing that some people don't understand at all is that it's part of life. They think SNSD don't want to be a group anymore and there selfish or whatever. In reality like you said they decided to pursue their own careers relatively early on which in the long run has helped them tremendously and have much longer careers than expected.
You just have to look at things now, 13 years after they all debuted, and see how their careers are still going strong. Some members are solo singers, some actresses, some models and so on. Recently Yuri's drama has been getting great reviews and setting records for viewership. Remember how people, including "industry experts" felt Hyoyeon barely had any future career path? She became a DJ that had a world tour and is still a variety star. Tiffany had so much hate that it that would've killed careers of majority of celebs (and let's be serious here, with Korean suicide rates and recent ones involving idols if Tiffany wasn't as strong willed as she is who knows what would've happened to her...) yet through her perseverance, talent and networking she's back on Korean TV almost as if nothing happened, the ultimate middle finger to everyone that wanted her dead (Korea is still shitty for treating her that way).
If members didn't lay the groundwork for themselves and if SNSD declined or was gone for good they would've been lost like idol of so many other groups. Compare to SNSD peers and how their members fared over the years: 2ne1, Sistar, WG, FX, miss A, After School, Kara and so on. You cant look at all those members careers now and say even a handful of them currently have solid stable individual careers on the same level as every single SNSD member. These groups were once able to have hit songs, win over the public, have dedicated fan bases or had promising careers.
SNSD members branching out was a good career choice. Because of that they not only have their own careers doing what they want but there's still the opportunity for collabs with each other officially or unofficially.
Yeah it's great but it's much earlier, like 1920/30s?
the fashion is 1920s in the mv but the song has a 60s gg feel like the Supremes for exampele very motown-esque song.
As a Jessica bias I use to have that opinion too. While their title tracks are definitely not as good, their b-side are on average the same quality as before.
Because Lion Heart and Holiday Night have a lot of good b-sides, whereas Girls' Generation, Oh!, The Boys and I Got A Boy have some amazing b-sides, but also pretty terrible ones. So it averages out the same.
So I only agree with you for the title tracks (I mean it's really hard to beat ITNW, Genie, Hoot, etc.)
While I love all SNSD, I see what you mean. As a fan you see the changes. And notice what the member who is no longer there brought to the table. I personally liked Party, and the later releases. But all of my favorite songs do include Jessica. I think she brought so much power to the table.
My favorite post Jessica song is actually Lil Touch. Which is odd since it has like half the members.
I'm going through the same thing and reasoning with Shinee right now. Like I still love them, but without Jonghyun the music just... isn't the same. It's like an integral part is missing and it's noticeable for me since I've stanned since the beginning.
Change is never easy. But sometimes nessecary for reasons out of our control.
I'm happy SNSD was able to continue on.
I agree but admit Holiday Night was one of if not their best album. Like many have said, Jessica's tone is unique and was a huge factor in contributing to SNSD's sound. As well, she really embodied the essence of SNSD when considering their image among other girl groups during that generation (they were the chic, popular, untouchable, etc. group). Think too others would agree that many of the songs they released post-9/30 would have been great with her vocals (Paradise, Fan, Check, Lion Heart, Holiday, etc.)
That's bothered me about the sound of Holiday Night. It felt very has been. There was a certain energy that came from the album that felt very tiered.
Display Moresorry op but i feel like it's placebo.
Lion heart gave me one of my fave bsides, You Think and Bump It.
All Night on their Holiday era
And OHGG is a BANGER.
You Think is a title track. It was their attempt at the double track title that 2NE1 was successful with, but it didn’t work for them.
You Think was the only title track by them after Jessica left that I liked.
I think their title tracks were lesser but overall the albums are 100x better because you can tell the girls had a lot more input and it showed with the amount of growth. Ot9 only had good albums from Hoot and onwards. Even then they had a lot of skips.
Lion Heart is no skip except for You Think. Holiday Night is great
I'm past the point of missing Jessica in Soshi and more missing her in music period. Damn SM and Coridel
I like Lion Heart 
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