I have seen a lot of people not support the girl group black swan because one of the members of the group is black, it a lot of the toxic International fans who are saying this, they also say that they don't think non-Asian should be in pop because it takes opportunities away from an Asian person like somehow because of their race they didn't have to work just as hard to debut as that Asian person(makes no sense) anyways can yall tell me yalls thoughts on this.
why is it ok 4 non american (Asians) to want to be apart of the American music industry but it is not ok for non Asians to want to be apart of the Korean music industry
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well d*mn...
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true lmao, but the title is quite intriguing. I suppose Ill farm then
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basically ifans are hypocritical and have double standards
> western culture doesn't deserve to be preserved
> asian cultures deserve to be preserved
> western cultures must accept everyone
> asian cultures should be very selective of who they select
and it comes down to racism, they think asians need "saving" and can't fend for themselves. while they feel powerful as westerners and must dictate rules on others. this is where cancel culture comes from.
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It's perfectly fine to be non Asian and be a kpop idol, and Asian in the american industry by my book, but I also get why people don't like it
I honestly don't really care either way though as long as they are talented
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It's perfectly fine to be non Asian and be a kpop idol, and Asian in the american industry by my book, but I also get why people don't like it
I honestly don't really care either way though as long as they are talented
what do u understand but them not liking it?
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the black swan member still receives way less hate than the white ones who tried to enter..
I don't get it tbh.. but yeah kind of hypocritical..
In my eyes, if they are talented enough and get trained enough to be on the level of other Asian idols then why not?
but then again the one big reason for the appeal of kpop is the asian looks.. it's just a very complicated topic to have a clear thought upon..
I kind of see where both sides are coming from
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America is already a racially diverse country it’s not an equal comparison.
Having more representation is something America strives for and wants because it is by nature a diverse country.
There are asian Americans who want to see Asian representation in American media. That’s not the case with kpop. Not just kpop but any other industry which is not racially diverse.
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what do u understand but them not liking it?
People in Korea are very uniform, that's why they have such specific beauty standards, and such a low amount of other races and cultures there, and also why people don't like those who don't follow the crowd. I don't agree with it but I know about it and see it everyday
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the black swan member still receives way less hate than the white ones who tried to enter..
I don't get it tbh.. but yeah kind of hypocritical..
In my eyes, if they are talented enough and get trained enough to be on the level of other Asian idols then why not?
but then again the one big reason for the appeal of kpop is the asian looks.. it's just a very complicated topic to have a clear thought upon..
I kind of see where both sides are coming from
i agree with everything except the first part, she has been called racial slurs multiple times, lana is a korea boo that y ppl dont like her not because she is yt and i think we all know that yt ppl in Korean have it easier than ANY other race.
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America is already a racially diverse country it’s not an equal comparison.
Having more representation is something America strives for and wants because it is by nature a diverse country.
There are asian Americans who want to see Asian representation in American media. That’s not the case with kpop. Not just kpop but any other industry which is not racially diverse.
yes
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She sure has, but the hate is way less normalised towards her as compared to the white ones who tried to enter... even in the korean forums...
lana received support initially on knets side definitely
but groups like EXP edition or that made from survival show having girls from different races received @@@73ab9558-a470-4045-b1a4-60864ed70047@@@ hate..
for Korean fans I think it has a lot to do with who fits their beauty standard more.. even with white people there are some they like and some they don't..
that's what I have concluded from my observations though I may not be 100% right
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Moderator
Moved the thread from forum The Lounge to forum K-POP Music. -
America is already a racially diverse country it’s not an equal comparison.
Having more representation is something America strives for and wants because it is by nature a diverse country.
There are asian Americans who want to see Asian representation in American media. That’s not the case with kpop. Not just kpop but any other industry which is not racially diverse.
But kpop sure loves racially diverse money
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Maybe to keep K-pop distinctly Asian?
However, there are big problems with using K-pop or any Asian music market as a representative of Asian people as a whole: Western music influences and imitations.
Though, I understand why people want a music scene that's both relevant, influential and visually different from the Western spaces that have a lack of Asian faces.
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But kpop sure loves racially diverse money
Apples and oranges.
This is not to say Asia in general is not biased or bigoted. There is a lot of bigotry.
But asking for diversity is a tangential topic to addressing racial prejudice.
In fact this question in relation to America of itself seems to “other” Asians in America. Like as if Asians aren’t a part of America. And American cultural. And that’s not the right question to ask.
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America is already a racially diverse country it’s not an equal comparison.
Having more representation is something America strives for and wants because it is by nature a diverse country.
There are asian Americans who want to see Asian representation in American media. That’s not the case with kpop. Not just kpop but any other industry which is not racially diverse.
I understand your points and agree with them. However, I do think that supporting non-asians from being represented in homogenous countries isn't helping either. It prevents Koreans from seeing, experiencing, and growing with racially diverse people. More than that, it's usually international fans who have an issue with white, black, or non-asian people entering the K-pop scene, not Koreans. Western fans seem to believe that it's their right to dictate who becomes an idol in Korea.
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I understand your points and agree with them. However, I do think that supporting non-asians from being represented in homogenous countries isn't helping either. It prevents Koreans from seeing, experiencing, and growing with racially diverse people. More than that, it's usually international fans who have an issue with white, black, or non-asian people entering the K-pop scene, not Koreans. Western fans seem to believe that it's their right to dictate who becomes an idol in Korea.
I absolutely agree. People outside of Korea or Korean origin who want to dictate how Korean media should be are just racist.
And yes I’ve seen that argument many times on forums. And they have always been distasteful.
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As for the issues I have with white people in the industry, I think it kind of defeats the purpose of kpop. - From a Kaachi opinion answer
Lana, a Russian idol, debuted under HiCC, a record label in South Korea, as a soloist on June 27, 2019, with the single “Take The Wheel”. Before debuting, she had already made appearances on Korean variety shows like Abnormal Summit as a representative of Russia, and Welcome, First Time in Korea? where she had friends from Russia take a holiday in Korea. Despite Lana’s debut garnering much attention due to her being Russian and for her visuals, she garnered much backlash from the K-pop community on twitter, specifically from K-pop fans who are of color. - From Article "White People Should Not Be Allowed to Debut in Kpop Industry"
As for racism in Korea: Newspapers have frequently reported on and criticized discrimination against immigrants, in forms such as being paid lower than the minimum wage, having their wages withheld, unsafe work conditions, physical abuse, or general denigration.of the 1245 South Koreans surveyed, 15.2% reported that they would not want someone of a different race as a neighbor.Only 40% of mixed-race elementary and middle school students, or students born out of international marriages are considered. According to a survey conducted by the National Human Rights Commission of Korea among foreign residents in South Korea in 2019, 68.4% of respondents declared they had experienced racial discrimination, and many of them said they experienced it due of their Korean language skills (62.3%), because they were not Korean (59.7%), or due to their race (44.7%).[22] Legislations to protect against discrimination has been brought up in 2007, 2010 and 2012.[11] but the bills faced objections chiefly by conservative Protestants. Another attempt has been made in 2020 by a minor liberal Justice Party to “ban all kinds of discrimination based on gender, disability, age, language, country of origin, sexual orientation, physical condition, academic background and any other reason.” Koreans by their classmates. Almost 50% of students said they have difficulties maintaining relationships with students who do not share the same nationality background. The reason given by Korean students is because of their classmates' different skin colors (24.2%), fear of being outcast by other Korean students (16.8%), and feeling of embarrassment if being friends with mixed-race children (15.5%)
Summary: Lana got a lot of hate for being white and racism is horrible for all races in Korea
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Asians are extremely underappreciated and undervalued in the west both in music and Hollywood. We’ve seen time and time again how they’re whitewashing Asian characters and cast white actresses instead. So with that said a lot of people see kpop as a safe space for Asian talent to get the spotlight and shine.
I’m not saying I agree or disagree but that’s how people see things.
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well d*mn...
Merged the threads and moved it to K-POP Music for this reason. Hope we can have a solid discussion about this.
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Are people seriously asking this lol. It's because America is not an ethnic monolith. It's a melting pot of races - white, Black, Asian, Hispanic, you name it, America's got it in spades. So, Asians in America isn't just normal, but should be promoted more since we need more Asian representation in the music industry that has historically been closed to a population that's very prominent in America (enough to have Chinatowns in every major city).
On the other hand, Korea is ethnically homogenous. More than anything, it's the ONLY place in the world where Koreans can have representation in entertainment. It's like people not wanting foreign actors to get in Bollywood. Bollywood and other forms of Indian cinema are the only way for us to see Indian actors on the big screen (we sure as hell ain't getting proper representation in Hollywood) and we don't want even that taken away from us by white people.
Thirdly, foreigners (barring Asian foreigners) who want to become Kpop idols rarely ever give a shit about Kpop. They don't learn the language, have half-baked skills (not even basic dancing skills that even an untalented visual can have) and just want to get into the industry because of the edge that looking different will give them. More often that not, they're also failed stars in the US. If a foreign idol learns the language, sings in Korean, and cares about Korean culture, they might just get away with debuting in Korea, just like Brad from Busker Busker.
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Multiple layers to unpack here... I'll have to disclose that I'm an Asian American just so you understand my perspective.
Personally, I have no problem with anyone, regardless of their race or skin color, who tries to succeed in Asian entertainment as long as they're genuinely interested in the field, the culture, the language, and the people. It's all about respect, and that's the ultimate respect anyone can give us. I'm not going to gatekeep that.
As for the narrative that non-Asian people are our taking away our opportunities, there's reason for concern given the lack of positive Asian representation in worldwide media. As disappointing as it is to say this, Korean pop music is still the main source of Asian representation in the United States despite efforts towards actual Asian-American representation.
Let's face it. There's a bit of a novelty factor whenever non-Asian idols are involved in K-pop. We're drawn to groups with foreign idols because it's something rarely seen. I wouldn't doubt some companies debut non-Asian idols for the sake of novelty and marketing. Of course, Fatou is skilled and talented and is not just a token non-Asian person who was able to debut just for publicity, but sadly, she falls under the stigma given situations in the past.
With non-Asian international fans, though... I'm talking about white K-pop fans, for instance. I have a feeling they want and expect to see Asian idols when they're looking at K-pop content. Humans are visual creatures. Some also want "authenticity," the same reason why they'd rather visit an authentic Japanese sushi restaurant or an authentic Korean BBQ restaurant as opposed to a westernized Asian fusion restaurant that some white people set up.
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Moderator
Moved the thread from forum K-POP Music to forum The Lounge. -
America is already a racially diverse country it’s not an equal comparison.
Having more representation is something America strives for and wants because it is by nature a diverse country.
There are asian Americans who want to see Asian representation in American media. That’s not the case with kpop. Not just kpop but any other industry which is not racially diverse.
exactly thats the problem and the hypocrisy
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what about like Japanese people
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how is non Asians wanting to be accepted a bad thing, you want their to be more diversity and you want to have more representation yet u segregate a music genre, im not trying to make this about black ppl but what is the rolls were reversed what is black people started saying "Koreans can make a k-hip hop because thats one of the only ways we can get representation". i dont think u understood the question neither, i never said that Asians weren't apart of the american music industry i said y is it a problem when non Americans want to be apart of the american music industry but it is a problem when a non Asian want to be apart of the Korean music industry for example superm
"Just recently during Capitol Congress 2019, which took place on August 7th in LA, SM Entertainment founder Lee SooMan revealed: "I was asked by Capitol Music CEO Steve Barnett to produce a new team that would display the strongest synergy between the West and the East recently. That is the reason why Super M was born.Aug 8, 2019"
the group was made for america so they can be apart of the american music industry, and when black swan debuted with 1 black member people had a problem with it because she wasn't Asian which is racist. -
im talking about the problem that most people have and what i have seen about non Asians.
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how is non Asians wanting to be accepted a bad thing, you want their to be more diversity and you want to have more representation yet u segregate a music genre, im not trying to make this about black ppl but what is the rolls were reversed what is black people started saying "Koreans can make a k-hip hop because thats one of the only ways we can get representation". i dont think u understood the question neither, i never said that Asians weren't apart of the american music industry i said y is it a problem when non Americans want to be apart of the american music industry but it is a problem when a non Asian want to be apart of the Korean music industry for example superm
"Just recently during Capitol Congress 2019, which took place on August 7th in LA, SM Entertainment founder Lee SooMan revealed: "I was asked by Capitol Music CEO Steve Barnett to produce a new team that would display the strongest synergy between the West and the East recently. That is the reason why Super M was born.Aug 8, 2019"
the group was made for america so they can be apart of the american music industry, and when black swan debuted with 1 black member people had a problem with it because she wasn't Asian which is racist.you are confusing two issues and in doing so are coming off as bigoted.
@ bold this whole question is wrong. When you ask this you are eliminating Asians as PART of American culture whether you realize it or not
No, Asians or literally any race seeking rep in America will not and is not the same as Americans seeking rep in homogenous countries.
You can say people should be more accepting, I agree they should be. But you have no right to say these two issues are the same. It's not.
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Detail to add: Do people commenting in this thread think Asian representation in America differs when it involves foreign (non-American) Asian faces versus Asian-American faces? Because k-pop generally does not represent Asian-Americans. It represents mostly South Korea. Asian-Americans in k-pop include: Teddy Park (born in Seoul but spent all of his formative years in the U.S), SNSD Tiffany, Jessica & Krystal, Jay Park, Amber, GOT7 Mark, Eric Nam, BtoB Peniel, Seventeen Vernon, etc. If you want to count Canadians: Henry Lau, Red Velvet Wendy, Day6 Young K, Somi, NCT Mark, etc. The two currently most popular k-pop groups (by fandom activity) do not represent Asian-Americans.
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As for the issues I have with white people in the industry, I think it kind of defeats the purpose of kpop. - From a Kaachi opinion answer
Lana, a Russian idol, debuted under HiCC, a record label in South Korea, as a soloist on June 27, 2019, with the single “Take The Wheel”. Before debuting, she had already made appearances on Korean variety shows like Abnormal Summit as a representative of Russia, and Welcome, First Time in Korea? where she had friends from Russia take a holiday in Korea. Despite Lana’s debut garnering much attention due to her being Russian and for her visuals, she garnered much backlash from the K-pop community on twitter, specifically from K-pop fans who are of color. - From Article "White People Should Not Be Allowed to Debut in Kpop Industry"
As for racism in Korea: Newspapers have frequently reported on and criticized discrimination against immigrants, in forms such as being paid lower than the minimum wage, having their wages withheld, unsafe work conditions, physical abuse, or general denigration.of the 1245 South Koreans surveyed, 15.2% reported that they would not want someone of a different race as a neighbor.Only 40% of mixed-race elementary and middle school students, or students born out of international marriages are considered. According to a survey conducted by the National Human Rights Commission of Korea among foreign residents in South Korea in 2019, 68.4% of respondents declared they had experienced racial discrimination, and many of them said they experienced it due of their Korean language skills (62.3%), because they were not Korean (59.7%), or due to their race (44.7%).[22] Legislations to protect against discrimination has been brought up in 2007, 2010 and 2012.[11] but the bills faced objections chiefly by conservative Protestants. Another attempt has been made in 2020 by a minor liberal Justice Party to “ban all kinds of discrimination based on gender, disability, age, language, country of origin, sexual orientation, physical condition, academic background and any other reason.” Koreans by their classmates. Almost 50% of students said they have difficulties maintaining relationships with students who do not share the same nationality background. The reason given by Korean students is because of their classmates' different skin colors (24.2%), fear of being outcast by other Korean students (16.8%), and feeling of embarrassment if being friends with mixed-race children (15.5%)
Summary: Lana got a lot of hate for being white and racism is horrible for all races in Korea
no, she got hate because she was a Korea boo and ppl didn't like that, the last part has nothing to do with her being in kpop and some of the y someone would be discriminated against doesn't apply to her and those arent even recent statistics all foreigners have a wage gap not just yt ppl multiple idols have came out and said that.
in conclusion if u do not want someone to be in k pop because of their race you are racist, if u want your Korean pop idols to be more global and succeed in america but dont want anyone non Asian to succeed in Korean music industry u r a toxic hypocrite.
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you are confusing two issues and in doing so are coming off as bigoted.
@ bold this whole question is wrong. When you ask this you are eliminating Asians as PART of American culture whether you realize it or not
No, Asians or literally any race seeking rep in America will not and is not the same as Americans seeking rep in homogenous countries.
You can say people should be more accepting, I agree they should be. But you have no right to say these two issues are the same. It's not.
i dont understand this part "When you ask this you are eliminating Asians as PART of American culture whether you realize it or not"
how was i "eliminating Asians as PART of American culture" by talking about kpop (Korean music)
No, Asians or literally any race seeking rep in America will not and is not the same as Americans seeking rep in homogeneous countries.
this is the whole problem i was implying
and how isn't it the same?
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no, she got hate because she was a Korea boo and ppl didn't like that, the last part has nothing to do with her being in kpop and some of the y someone would be discriminated against doesn't apply to her and those arent even recent statistics all foreigners have a wage gap not just yt ppl multiple idols have came out and said that.
in conclusion if u do not want someone to be in k pop because of their race you are racist, if u want your Korean pop idols to be more global and succeed in america but dont want anyone non Asian to succeed in Korean music industry u r a toxic hypocrite.
bruh. its because kpop is k o r e n p o p what do you not understand. the usa was a mixed country from the beginning. korea was not.
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also i think lana deserves a chance i'm just saying what the koreans think.
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