There is nothing to indicate BLACKPINK is a more impactful group than SNSD

why you so obsessed with me - BLACKPINK

lol k

Good luck BP! You'll just be impactful when Yama gives you the pass!!

Quote from Yama-Chan

It's not like I accused them of reheating 2NE1's nachos

Bc you can't. Teddy is the mastermind behind yge formula with BB, 2ne1 and BP being his biggest success.

I love how blackjacks act like 2ne1 is some self made group like BB when in fact they aren't.

We are simple

They are because they are

Quote from Yama-Chan

You're focusing on the process instead of the result. Classic logical fallacy.

It doesn't matter HOW 2NE1 was formed and marketed, so long as they were the FIRST to really popularize and platform girl crush concepts.

And this is a conversation about impact, particularly in comparison to SNSD, so don't waste time trying to bait a derailment into a 2NE1/BP argument, though the fact YG himself said he made zero effort to differentiate 2NE1 from BP is a bit of a red flag in this conversation.

Being the first means nothing much when it's your junior who is remembered the most with the gc concept and BP revived gc concept when everybody was doing cute.

And DaisyTheGenuine what did YGE said again? I always forget the quote, but I'm sure it's more about yge formula than 2ne1 itself bc both marketing was totally different. But go live in your delusional world!!

Quote from Yama-Chan

Not being the first to do something is actually huge in a conversation about impact.

There have been plenty of generational pop stars over the decades, but Michael Jackson was the first and remains the most iconic artist perhaps of all time, even though he doesn't own all the records that a Taylor Swift may now hold.

So, I consider this a milquetoast argument at best.

More ad hominem is not helping your case.

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What case? I'm just laughing at you acting like 2ne1 is a BB case when clearly they aren't.

Your take is delusional and you will refuse to see anything bc it doesn't help your narrative! Good life!

the question as always isn't what group is more or less impactful than another but what does impact mean

Unless one defines impact to include some objective measure then all it is is people having subjective opinions as to what is impact

SNSD will forever remain as the most impactful kpop girl group. Blackpink will never be even half as impactful as SNSD. Their songs aren’t iconic per se, they don’t have stellar discography either. They are more like Instagram influencers.

Quote from Yama-Chan

You do not hold back on this topic. I co-sign and back your initial statement at least.

It would be nice if a Blink could make a cogent argument for why they think otherwise, and stop acting like radicalized fanatics attempting to silence and attack me personally.

Well what I said is true, and there is no shade to it. Just like how I admit that Aespa’s bsides aren’t stellar half of the time, or how they aren’t the most impactful girl group of their era and etc etc….

Quote from Yama-Chan

I agree. Defining impact would be the most important step to complete prior to establishing who had the biggest impact.

I've already implied I think it's more than just placement on a music chart or sales.

I think it's now you changed the industry itself, how you influenced the way the public perceives and consumes said industry, how many doors you opened for the generations that followed, and how much of a metaphorical footprint you left in the end.

SNSD was so impactful that YG was openly desperate to have his own YG version of them. And JYP DID make his own version in Twice.

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para 2 - but why? why is impact more than just charting and sales? what is your basis for claiming that sales and charting don't matter when it comes to impact?

para 3 - good that's a start but isn't that a subjective measure? one person might say BP influenced them or an idol might say they got into kpop because of BP is that impact? how many idols need to "reference" BP in order to be impactful?

what of fans? Like obviously I'm one person in a million who got into kpop because of BP's D4 and I'm sure lots of others as well - is that impact? vice versa I'm pretty sure lots of people got into kpop because of snsd. I hesitate to make this claim (since kpop has grown massively since snsd's time) but what if I make the argument that more people have gotten into kpop because of BP than snsd - is that impact?

some in the public perceive BP as the biggest kpop GG in the world - there have been comments like Global Girl Group - is that impact? vice versa - snsd were the first??? group considered Nation's GG - is that an example of impact?

furthermore BP is still currently active which means they are still leaving their legacy and building their impact no? SNSD has been around a lot longer than BP has so obviously their impact potential is higher than BPs since they had more time to be impactful (if that makes sense)

para 4 - absolutely my friend however we are all guided and built upon those who came before us...I'm pretty sure someone will be able to find that when SNSD debuted they too said we want to be like (insert whatever group came before them). however without knowing exactly what YHS said - just because he said he wanted BP to be like SNSD - it turned out that they were very different from snsd and maybe he said he wanted BP to be like snsd in terms of success ???

Quote from Taemin-Identity

SNSD will forever remain as the most impactful kpop girl group.

Blackpink will never be even half as impactful as SNSD.

Their songs aren’t iconic per se,

they don’t have stellar discography either.

They are more like Instagram influencers.

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I'll bite lol

I might not disagree with the ultimate proposition that snsd is more impactful than BP however let's start with

para 1 what is your definition of impact?

para 2 - is that not a subjective opinion? and thus one might claim that whilst SNSD is a very impactful group BP's impact has surpassed that of SNSD?

para 3 - again what does it mean to have an iconic song? again is that not just a subjective definition my friend - what if I claim BP songs are iconic? what if I make the claim that more people have heard of D4 overall compared to say Gee (obviously I have no evidence to back up my claim) - does that mean D4 is more iconic than Gee?

para 4 - what determines stellar discography - again is that not a subjective consideration whether something is stellar or not? there are popular songs, successful songs but there are no good or bad songs since good or bad by its very definition is subjective

para 5 - I don't disagree with you lol however does that dimish their impact?

Quote from Taemin-Identity

Just like how I admit that Aespa’s bsides aren’t stellar half of the time, or how they aren’t the most impactful girl group of their era and etc etc….

Yama doesn’t care about SNSD don’t take the bait.

Blackpink just keep beating MMM and NJZ in every single poll and is significantly more impactful and relevant than either of those groups lol. That’s what he’s really triggered about.

For me Blackpink’s international success and visibility (every single western artists is at their door waiting for a colab if thats not impact idk what is) is more impactful than SNSD who never really left the kpop space so I will place them above but that’s a personal choice. If u blv what SNSD did to kpop is more impactful then that’s totally ok. SNSD were impactful for their time and Blackpink are impactful for their time.

Quote from Taemin-Identity

SNSD will forever remain as the most impactful kpop girl group. Blackpink will never be even half as impactful as SNSD. Their songs aren’t iconic per se, they don’t have stellar discography either. They are more like Instagram influencers.

This is just your personal opinion.

SNSD and 2nd gen music is trashy and forgotten. It’s not some universal truth that SNSD’s music was better or more iconic.

The fact that 2nd gen fans really think that the grating terrible music from the 00s is something significantly better than BP or what’s released now is really funny lol.

Quote from Yama-Chan

If I didn't stan either of those groups, I would still be making the exact same threads.

There was a time where I stanned BESTie, EXID BEFORE Up and Down, and Mamamoo in their rookie year.

I'm not a success stan. So such things would never trigger me actually

No you wouldn’t lol.

Quote from Yama-Chan

Their B-Sides are all Girls level aka mid at best. It's the most disappointing thing about aespa, since f(x) and RV have such amazing discographies with incredible B-Sides

I think you may have gone a bit far with the Instagram influencer comment, but on second thought, I often see Blinks bragging about all the brand deals BP got (surprised that hasn't come up), so maybe it's not completely unfair.

Not the social media dragging when it’s ubiquitous. SNSD fans boasted about their TV ratings as well. And get brought up everytime someone discusses how iconic they are. You will boast about whatever promo content is popular for that time.

Right now TV is dead, how you reach ppl on social media directly showcases your popularity and reach.

Quote from selfmate

I'll bite lol

I might not disagree with the ultimate proposition that snsd is more impactful than BP however let's start with

para 1 what is your definition of impact?

para 2 - is that not a subjective opinion? and thus one might claim that whilst SNSD is a very impactful group BP's impact has surpassed that of SNSD?

para 3 - again what does it mean to have an iconic song? again is that not just a subjective definition my friend - what if I claim BP songs are iconic? what if I make the claim that more people have heard of D4 overall compared to say Gee (obviously I have no evidence to back up my claim) - does that mean D4 is more iconic than Gee?

para 4 - what determines stellar discography - again is that not a subjective consideration whether something is stellar or not? there are popular songs, successful songs but there are no good or bad songs since good or bad by its very definition is subjective

para 5 - I don't disagree with you lol however does that dimish their impact?

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Success≠impact.

1. Impact means, their songs are remembered and are timeless. It means GP will always remember their songs, it means kpop industry will always remember their songs. It means their songs will be the standard for everybody, rookies, established idols and trainees. It means their songs can be revolutionary like Into The New World which is unofficial Korean Anthem, which no other kpop group song achieved that.

Just like how I encountered this video just yesterday.

She was a possible candidate for debuting in Lsfm and Njs but she declined that, but it is not the subject. They used to sing this song while being trainees all the time. She is a British Girl by the way.(If she debuted she would be the best vocalist under Hybe definitely)

TikTok · Claire

236.3K likes, 875 comments. “ask as many questions as you want ❤️”

www.tiktok.com

2. I always hear these comparisons, but I have yet to see compelling argument that BP might be half as impactful as SNSD. For example, are they pioneers of Girl Crush concept? Aren’t their songs always compared to 2ne1? Did they open the door to the west? Etc etc…..

3. Iconic songs, mean they will be remembered as timeless, will be covered by everybody and in every form. They should change lives for that. And I don’t even remember I when was the last time I heard D4. Not on TikTok, not in twitter, not in YouTube.

4. They have very short discography which most of them are very mid. For example Dance Monkey spent most days on Number on Spotify Global’s history! Does that make the song best, iconic and etc etc. No! Actually most people that I have seen and read hate this song. Also I blame it on Teddy that he released the same recycled Title Tracks since 2018. The lyrics are also onomatopoeia. Nothing that makes the song great.

5. Success is never the most important metric of impact. Impact means changing the industry, impact means changing the society, impact means iconic performance that will be remembered for generations, impact means timeless songs, impact means bringing something new to the table, impact means being trendsetters, impact means opening the doors for others and etc etc….

Quote from Yama-Chan

Because I personally find that to be an unnecessarily restrictive, binary definition of impact. Did you or did you not sell a lot of albums?

I'm not trying to send a stray at Stray Kids (no pun intended), but their Spotify and sales numbers are superb yet nobody would even think of them in a discussion on most impactful group of their era.

It can be part of the conversation but not be the entire conversation.

Good points. Honestly? There is no real infallible method for answering most of your questions. We would need to run multiple polls and analyze so much data to even come up with a theoretical answer, and even then it wouldn't be conclusive.

That's if you look at how many people became new fans because of a specific group.

Of course, one could easily argue that the newer groups were able to have the opportunity to bring new fans in BECAUSE of the impact of a group like SNSD, who were at the forefront of the Hallyu Wave alongside their peers. There is some give and take there though, for sure.

You can't attribute all of BP's success to their predecessors, but you also have to acknowledge the doors opened by said predecessors. It's a nuanced conversation.

This basically covered your part 4 too.

I personally became a K-Pop fan because of 2NE1 and Big Bang. I have no allegiance to SNSD, andy roots are clearly with YG acts. Yet and still, I feel like SNSD are the most impactful girl group in my time following this industry, and I'd just like to see SOME type of argument to the contrary.

You raised good points though. Thank you for actually engaging the purpose of the thread and not lashing out defensively.

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with all due respect my friend that's your opinion and whilst I don't necessarily think purely having more album sales or charting higher implies more impact I do think that those objective criteria (not just limited to album sales and charting) deserves it's consideration in the overall impact picture - they are but one of many considerations one has to consider when discussing impact so I agree with your para 3

para 4 and thus I would then hesitate to make the argument that there might be something to indicate BP is more impactful than SNSD that the premise of your title is has been "disproven"????

para 5 - do you consider new people either becoming new fans (of either a specific group or kpop generally) to be impactful?

para 6 - absolutely agree my friend

para 7 - sorry was there a typo there? I absolutely agree that every group is built upon the successes and pavements of their predecessors. One can rightly argue that SNSD paved the way for GG that follow however one can just as easily make the claim that BP also paved the way for GG that follow in certain circumstances as well no?

para 9 - that's great my friend I wasn't around kpop back then but I can see both 2ne1 and BB left their mark not just in YG but kpop overall and I would agree that SNSD was a hugely impactful group

yama I'm a fence sitter I've never lash out (unless it's to troll you)

Quote from ISaidISaid

This is just your personal opinion.

SNSD and 2nd gen music is trashy and forgotten. It’s not some universal truth that SNSD’s music was better or more iconic.

The fact that 2nd gen fans really think that the grating terrible music from the 00s is something significantly better than BP or what’s released now is really funny lol.

Your opinion on songs doesn’t really matter. Nobody cares about your terrible taste in Music.

Your takes on music are below David Level.