There is nothing to indicate BLACKPINK is a more impactful group than SNSD

    But I'm open to reading and reviewing any arguments to the contrary.


    I know Blinks overrate their impact in the West (BTS, they are not), but now you've all become bold enough to say they're more impactful than THE SNSD?


    Has this forum become as cooked as K-Pop Reddit except we replaced the rampant brigading from toxic ARMY from x/twitter with Blinks?


    I would LOVE for one of you to explain in detail what makes BP more impactful than SNSD, and the argument better not center on Billboard charting, because that's just simply success NOT charting.

  • AllKill VIP
  • AllKill VIP

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    Surely a group this impactful should be ready to give an even brief breakdown on exactly how impactful they are, right?


    I asked a question straight up. Why can't you Blinks answer it instead of deflecting and resorting to personal attacks just because your tribalism was triggered by someone who dares to question the forced narratives about a group?


    It's not like I accused them of reheating 2NE1's nachos

    Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

    Damn near every 4th and 5th gen idol names Jennie as their idol

    That's a weak argument. That's kind of how generations in any field work. Immediate predecessors influence the up and coming stars who follow them in the industry.


    Michael Jordan was inspired by Dr. J. Kobe Bryant and LeBron James were inspired by Michael Jordan. Every modern day star was inspired by Kobe and LeBron.


    That doesn't suddenly mean those two are considered more IMPACTFUL than Jordan. Hell, one could argue Steph Curry is more IMPACTFUL than either of them quite easily, and I'd bet all my assets that more current players would still name LeBron as their idol.


    So I dislike this argument.


    Can you try another?

  • AllKill VIP

    Yama-chan, anytime you insert sports into any argument, I immediately skip over everything you said.

    Quote from monalisalove

    Bc you can't. Teddy is the mastermind behind yge formula with BB, 2ne1 and BP being his biggest success.

    I love how blackjacks act like 2ne1 is some self made group like BB when in fact they aren't.

    You're focusing on the process instead of the result. Classic logical fallacy.


    It doesn't matter HOW 2NE1 was formed and marketed, so long as they were the FIRST to really popularize and platform girl crush concepts.


    And this is a conversation about impact, particularly in comparison to SNSD, so don't waste time trying to bait a derailment into a 2NE1/BP argument, though the fact YG himself said he made zero effort to differentiate 2NE1 from BP is a bit of a red flag in this conversation.

    Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

    Yama-chan, anytime you insert sports into any argument, I immediately skip over everything you said.

    It's simple really.


    Every modern day player will say the legend from the previous era was the player they grew up watching and idolized. More so than someone who retired 22 years ago, Michael Jordan.


    Yet you don't even have to know a thing about sports to know Michael Jordan is arguably the most impactful athlete in human history.


    Hence, I didn't like your choice of argument, using the fact current day idols look up to Jennie as proof that BP is MORE impactful than SNSD.

  • AllKill VIP


    Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

    Yama-chan, anytime you insert sports into any argument, I immediately skip over everything you said.

    Quote from Yama-Chan

    You're focusing on the process instead of the result. Classic logical fallacy.


    It doesn't matter HOW 2NE1 was formed and marketed, so long as they were the FIRST to really popularize and platform girl crush concepts.


    And this is a conversation about impact, particularly in comparison to SNSD, so don't waste time trying to bait a derailment into a 2NE1/BP argument, though the fact YG himself said he made zero effort to differentiate 2NE1 from BP is a bit of a red flag in this conversation.

    Being the first means nothing much when it's your junior who is remembered the most with the gc concept and BP revived gc concept when everybody was doing cute.


    And DaisyTheGenuine what did YGE said again? I always forget the quote, but I'm sure it's more about yge formula than 2ne1 itself bc both marketing was totally different. But go live in your delusional world!!

    Quote from monalisalove

    Being the first means nothing much when it's your junior who is remembered the most with the gc concept and BP revived gc concept when everybody was doing cute.


    And DaisyTheGenuine what did YGE said again? I always forget the quote, but I'm sure it's more about yge formula than 2ne1 itself bc both marketing was totally different. But go live in your delusional world!!

    Not being the first to do something is actually huge in a conversation about impact.


    There have been plenty of generational pop stars over the decades, but Michael Jackson was the first and remains the most iconic artist perhaps of all time, even though he doesn't own all the records that a Taylor Swift may now hold.


    So, I consider this a milquetoast argument at best.


    More ad hominem is not helping your case.

    What case? I'm just laughing at you acting like 2ne1 is a BB case when clearly they aren't.

    Your take is delusional and you will refuse to see anything bc it doesn't help your narrative! Good life! :exit-pepe:

    the question as always isn't what group is more or less impactful than another but what does impact mean


    Unless one defines impact to include some objective measure then all it is is people having subjective opinions as to what is impact

    Quote from monalisalove

    What case? I'm just laughing at you acting like 2ne1 is a BB case when clearly they aren't.

    Your take is delusional and you will refuse to see anything bc it doesn't help your narrative! Good life! :exit-pepe:

    You don't have to participate in the thread of the premise triggers you so badly. Take care.



    Quote from selfmate

    the question as always isn't what group is more or less impactful than another but what does impact mean


    Unless one defines impact to include some objective measure then all it is is people having subjective opinions as to what is impact

    I agree. Defining impact would be the most important step to complete prior to establishing who had the biggest impact.


    I've already implied I think it's more than just placement on a music chart or sales.


    I think it's now you changed the industry itself, how you influenced the way the public perceives and consumes said industry, how many doors you opened for the generations that followed, and how much of a metaphorical footprint you left in the end.


    SNSD was so impactful that YG was openly desperate to have his own YG version of them. And JYP DID make his own version in Twice.

    Quote from Taemin-Identity

    SNSD will forever remain as the most impactful kpop girl group. Blackpink will never be even half as impactful as SNSD. Their songs aren’t iconic per se, they don’t have stellar discography either. They are more like Instagram influencers.

    :meme-oop:


    You do not hold back on this topic. I co-sign and back your initial statement at least.


    It would be nice if a Blink could make a cogent argument for why they think otherwise, and stop acting like radicalized fanatics attempting to silence and attack me personally.

    Quote from Yama-Chan

    :meme-oop:


    You do not hold back on this topic. I co-sign and back your initial statement at least.


    It would be nice if a Blink could make a cogent argument for why they think otherwise, and stop acting like radicalized fanatics attempting to silence and attack me personally.

    Well what I said is true, and there is no shade to it. Just like how I admit that Aespa’s bsides aren’t stellar half of the time, or how they aren’t the most impactful girl group of their era and etc etc….

    para 2 - but why? why is impact more than just charting and sales? what is your basis for claiming that sales and charting don't matter when it comes to impact?


    para 3 - good that's a start but isn't that a subjective measure? one person might say BP influenced them or an idol might say they got into kpop because of BP is that impact? how many idols need to "reference" BP in order to be impactful?

    what of fans? Like obviously I'm one person in a million who got into kpop because of BP's D4 and I'm sure lots of others as well - is that impact? vice versa I'm pretty sure lots of people got into kpop because of snsd. I hesitate to make this claim (since kpop has grown massively since snsd's time) but what if I make the argument that more people have gotten into kpop because of BP than snsd - is that impact?

    some in the public perceive BP as the biggest kpop GG in the world - there have been comments like Global Girl Group - is that impact? vice versa - snsd were the first??? group considered Nation's GG - is that an example of impact?

    furthermore BP is still currently active which means they are still leaving their legacy and building their impact no? SNSD has been around a lot longer than BP has so obviously their impact potential is higher than BPs since they had more time to be impactful (if that makes sense)


    para 4 - absolutely my friend however we are all guided and built upon those who came before us...I'm pretty sure someone will be able to find that when SNSD debuted they too said we want to be like (insert whatever group came before them). however without knowing exactly what YHS said - just because he said he wanted BP to be like SNSD - it turned out that they were very different from snsd and maybe he said he wanted BP to be like snsd in terms of success ???

    I'll bite lol


    I might not disagree with the ultimate proposition that snsd is more impactful than BP however let's start with


    para 1 what is your definition of impact?


    para 2 - is that not a subjective opinion? and thus one might claim that whilst SNSD is a very impactful group BP's impact has surpassed that of SNSD?


    para 3 - again what does it mean to have an iconic song? again is that not just a subjective definition my friend - what if I claim BP songs are iconic? what if I make the claim that more people have heard of D4 overall compared to say Gee (obviously I have no evidence to back up my claim) - does that mean D4 is more iconic than Gee?


    para 4 - what determines stellar discography - again is that not a subjective consideration whether something is stellar or not? there are popular songs, successful songs but there are no good or bad songs since good or bad by its very definition is subjective


    para 5 - I don't disagree with you lol however does that dimish their impact?

    Quote from selfmate

    but why? why is impact more than just charting and sales? what is your basis for claiming that sales and charting don't matter when it comes to impact?

    Because I personally find that to be an unnecessarily restrictive, binary definition of impact. Did you or did you not sell a lot of albums?


    I'm not trying to send a stray at Stray Kids (no pun intended), but their Spotify and sales numbers are superb yet nobody would even think of them in a discussion on most impactful group of their era.


    It can be part of the conversation but not be the entire conversation.


    Quote from selfmate

    para 3 - good that's a start but isn't that a subjective measure? one person might say BP influenced them or an idol might say they got into kpop because of BP is that impact? how many idols need to "reference" BP in order to be impactful?

    what of fans? Like obviously I'm one person in a million who got into kpop because of BP's D4 and I'm sure lots of others as well - is that impact? vice versa I'm pretty sure lots of people got into kpop because of snsd. I hesitate to make this claim (since kpop has grown massively since snsd's time) but what if I make the argument that more people have gotten into kpop because of BP than snsd - is that impact?

    some in the public perceive BP as the biggest kpop GG in the world - there have been comments like Global Girl Group - is that impact? vice versa - snsd were the first??? group considered Nation's GG - is that an example of impact?

    furthermore BP is still currently active which means they are still leaving their legacy and building their impact no? SNSD has been around a lot longer than BP has so obviously their impact potential is higher than BPs since they had more time to be impactful (if that makes sense)

    Good points. Honestly? There is no real infallible method for answering most of your questions. We would need to run multiple polls and analyze so much data to even come up with a theoretical answer, and even then it wouldn't be conclusive.


    That's if you look at how many people became new fans because of a specific group.


    Of course, one could easily argue that the newer groups were able to have the opportunity to bring new fans in BECAUSE of the impact of a group like SNSD, who were at the forefront of the Hallyu Wave alongside their peers. There is some give and take there though, for sure.


    You can't attribute all of BP's success to their predecessors, but you also have to acknowledge the doors opened by said predecessors. It's a nuanced conversation.


    This basically covered your part 4 too.


    I personally became a K-Pop fan because of 2NE1 and Big Bang. I have no allegiance to SNSD, andy roots are clearly with YG acts. Yet and still, I feel like SNSD are the most impactful girl group in my time following this industry, and I'd just like to see SOME type of argument to the contrary.


    You raised good points though. Thank you for actually engaging the purpose of the thread and not lashing out defensively.

    Yama doesn’t care about SNSD don’t take the bait.


    Blackpink just keep beating MMM and NJZ in every single poll and is significantly more impactful and relevant than either of those groups lol. That’s what he’s really triggered about.


    For me Blackpink’s international success and visibility (every single western artists is at their door waiting for a colab if thats not impact idk what is) is more impactful than SNSD who never really left the kpop space so I will place them above but that’s a personal choice. If u blv what SNSD did to kpop is more impactful then that’s totally ok. SNSD were impactful for their time and Blackpink are impactful for their time.

    Quote from Taemin-Identity

    Well what I said is true, and there is no shade to it. Just like how I admit that Aespa’s bsides aren’t stellar half of the time, or how they aren’t the most impactful girl group of their era and etc etc….

    Their B-Sides are all Girls level aka mid at best. It's the most disappointing thing about aespa, since f(x) and RV have such amazing discographies with incredible B-Sides


    I think you may have gone a bit far with the Instagram influencer comment, but on second thought, I often see Blinks bragging about all the brand deals BP got (surprised that hasn't come up), so maybe it's not completely unfair.

    Quote from Taemin-Identity

    SNSD will forever remain as the most impactful kpop girl group. Blackpink will never be even half as impactful as SNSD. Their songs aren’t iconic per se, they don’t have stellar discography either. They are more like Instagram influencers.

    This is just your personal opinion.


    SNSD and 2nd gen music is trashy and forgotten. It’s not some universal truth that SNSD’s music was better or more iconic.


    The fact that 2nd gen fans really think that the grating terrible music from the 00s is something significantly better than BP or what’s released now is really funny lol.

    Quote from ISaidISaid

    Blackpink just keep beating MMM and NJZ in every single poll and is significantly more impactful and relevant than either of those groups lol. That’s what he’s really triggered about.

    If I didn't stan either of those groups, I would still be making the exact same threads.


    There was a time where I stanned BESTie, EXID BEFORE Up and Down, and Mamamoo in their rookie year.


    I'm not a success stan. So such things would never trigger me actually

  • AllKill VIP

    In a way, isn't this thread a testament to Blackpink's impact?

    Having people love you is one thing but being so iconic and impactful that people wish for it to be anyone else but you is also hella legendary.


    I've been on akp for 6ish years off and on but this insistence on denying Blackpink's impact is probably the only thing that's never ever changed. Blackpink is 9 and yet people still fight over them like a rookie group


    People don't want them to be IT and that's exactly why they are IT.



    This is also why I'm just not worried about NJZ. The sheer amount of people celebrating their "downfall", wishing the worst on them, making excuses for any achievement they have speaks more than any chart imo


    Only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.


    It's only over when nobody tries to make a case for a group anymore

    All fair points that I certainly can't disagree with, a a Bunny.


    My only counter to that would be that I never denied BP's impact; I just don't see the argument for that impact being greater than SNSD, a group that is considered a national treasure on the same level as kimchi. A group YG spent years chasing before finally giving up and sticking to what he knows (the next 2NE1)....before arguably trying for it again with BM.

    Quote from ISaidISaid

    No you wouldn’t lol.

    Sure I would.


    It's a misconception to think I'm fueled by tribalism and not just a desire for entertaining conversations about hobbies I enjoy.

    Quote from Yama-Chan

    Their B-Sides are all Girls level aka mid at best. It's the most disappointing thing about aespa, since f(x) and RV have such amazing discographies with incredible B-Sides


    I think you may have gone a bit far with the Instagram influencer comment, but on second thought, I often see Blinks bragging about all the brand deals BP got (surprised that hasn't come up), so maybe it's not completely unfair.

    Not the social media dragging when it’s ubiquitous. SNSD fans boasted about their TV ratings as well. And get brought up everytime someone discusses how iconic they are. You will boast about whatever promo content is popular for that time.


    Right now TV is dead, how you reach ppl on social media directly showcases your popularity and reach.

    Success≠impact.

    1. Impact means, their songs are remembered and are timeless. It means GP will always remember their songs, it means kpop industry will always remember their songs. It means their songs will be the standard for everybody, rookies, established idols and trainees. It means their songs can be revolutionary like Into The New World which is unofficial Korean Anthem, which no other kpop group song achieved that.

    Just like how I encountered this video just yesterday.

    She was a possible candidate for debuting in Lsfm and Njs but she declined that, but it is not the subject. They used to sing this song while being trainees all the time. She is a British Girl by the way.(If she debuted she would be the best vocalist under Hybe definitely)

    TikTok · Claire
    236.3K likes, 875 comments. “ask as many questions as you want ❤️”
    www.tiktok.com


    2. I always hear these comparisons, but I have yet to see compelling argument that BP might be half as impactful as SNSD. For example, are they pioneers of Girl Crush concept? Aren’t their songs always compared to 2ne1? Did they open the door to the west? Etc etc…..


    3. Iconic songs, mean they will be remembered as timeless, will be covered by everybody and in every form. They should change lives for that. And I don’t even remember I when was the last time I heard D4. Not on TikTok, not in twitter, not in YouTube.


    4. They have very short discography which most of them are very mid. For example Dance Monkey spent most days on Number on Spotify Global’s history! Does that make the song best, iconic and etc etc. No! Actually most people that I have seen and read hate this song. Also I blame it on Teddy that he released the same recycled Title Tracks since 2018. The lyrics are also onomatopoeia. Nothing that makes the song great.


    5. Success is never the most important metric of impact. Impact means changing the industry, impact means changing the society, impact means iconic performance that will be remembered for generations, impact means timeless songs, impact means bringing something new to the table, impact means being trendsetters, impact means opening the doors for others and etc etc….

    with all due respect my friend that's your opinion and whilst I don't necessarily think purely having more album sales or charting higher implies more impact I do think that those objective criteria (not just limited to album sales and charting) deserves it's consideration in the overall impact picture - they are but one of many considerations one has to consider when discussing impact so I agree with your para 3


    para 4 and thus I would then hesitate to make the argument that there might be something to indicate BP is more impactful than SNSD that the premise of your title is has been "disproven"????


    para 5 - do you consider new people either becoming new fans (of either a specific group or kpop generally) to be impactful?


    para 6 - absolutely agree my friend


    para 7 - sorry was there a typo there? I absolutely agree that every group is built upon the successes and pavements of their predecessors. One can rightly argue that SNSD paved the way for GG that follow however one can just as easily make the claim that BP also paved the way for GG that follow in certain circumstances as well no?


    para 9 - that's great my friend I wasn't around kpop back then but I can see both 2ne1 and BB left their mark not just in YG but kpop overall and I would agree that SNSD was a hugely impactful group


    yama I'm a fence sitter I've never lash out (unless it's to troll you)

    Quote from ISaidISaid

    This is just your personal opinion.


    SNSD and 2nd gen music is trashy and forgotten. It’s not some universal truth that SNSD’s music was better or more iconic.


    The fact that 2nd gen fans really think that the grating terrible music from the 00s is something significantly better than BP or what’s released now is really funny lol.

    Your opinion on songs doesn’t really matter. Nobody cares about your terrible taste in Music.

    Your takes on music are below David Level.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Yama-Chan

    My only counter to that would be that I never denied BP's impact; I just don't see the argument for that impact being greater than SNSD, a group that is considered a national treasure on the same level as kimchi. A group YG spent years chasing before finally giving up and sticking to what he knows (the next 2NE1)....before arguably trying for it again with BM.

    There were more groups attempting the Blackpink model during their peak than groups attempting SNSD's during their peak.


    Late 3rd gen, early 4th gen was absolutely polluted with girl crush concepts and those groups were generally outperforming their peers


    You can look down on BP for being "influencers" but so many 4th gen groups are being pushed in that direction because it worked

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