Would the upcoming SMNGG be guaranteed to become the next top girl group if MHJ led the project? 35
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No (26) 74%
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Yes (9) 26%
Let's see what AKP truly thinks of MHJ's talents
Assume she'll have full control just like she did in ADOR
Let's see what AKP truly thinks of MHJ's talents
Assume she'll have full control just like she did in ADOR
But it worked for NewJeans, when she had full control
There are plenty of things that contributed to NewJeans success
Y'know...
Like the members themselves?
There are plenty of things that contributed to NewJeans success
Y'know...
Like the members themselves?
Well, yes, they are the essential ingredients, but MHJ is the chef. The girls themselves said as much in their first stream they uploaded to YT. And we both know Dani wouldn't have even made the lineup of MHJ didn't fight for her. I'm not minimizing the contributions and values of the girls; it's just acknowledging how inexorably embedded in their concepts and formulas MHJ is.
Well, yes, they are the essential ingredients, but MHJ is the chef. The girls themselves said as much in their first stream they uploaded to YT. And we both know Dani wouldn't have even made the lineup of MHJ didn't fight for her. I'm not minimizing the contributions and values of the girls; it's just acknowledging how inexorably embedded in their concepts and formulas MHJ is.
The top two groups at SM in their respective era was SNSD and now Aespa. Both of whom did not require MHJ
If anything the groups she produced while they were indeed regarded for their good concepts and music (FX and RV) never reached the top #1 spots in their generation having both fandom + GP.
Will they be successful? Sure she is good. Will they be one top, imo it’s hard to say.
To use RV and F(x) as examples don't make any sense, her role was not even similar to what she did with NJ which is the only real example we have.
You can never say 100% sure, but it's definitely likely specially looking at how the rest of the ggs of the gen didn't blow up so far, the competition is not that intense.
Why haven't the other HYBE girl groups had the same success then? We know HYBE wanted LSF to succeed more than any girl group under their label, but their debut numbers aren't even 1/3 of what NJ accomplished.
To use RV and F(x) as examples don't make any sense, her role was not even similar to what she did with NJ which is the only real example we have.
You can never say 100% sure, but it's definitely likely specially looking at how the rest of the ggs of the gen didn't blow up so far, the competition is not that intense.
That's why I added the caveat that MHJ would have full creative and administrative control just like she did in ADOR.
Looking at the current offering a new gen girl groups, and how... derivative they are, I think a MHJ led SMNGG would easily dominate
I think at this point in time yes. They would probably have at the very least Gfriend level success. Some hits, definitely fans and albums sold. I dont care about MHJ for her success though, i care because she makes something thats interesting. She actually cares about the product and what every aspect will do for the entire image as a whole. She thinks of idols as a canvas for art and tells a story and thats why i felt Red Light and Pink Tape were so enticing, same for Shinee’s View or really anything Red Velvet from Happiness to Bad Boy.
Like you can tell theres such a large level of care put into the concepts she thought of before having full control.
Non popular example:
One of These Nights being so simple, the music video being a very tasteful, thought provoking story that pays tribute to the Sewol Ferry victims was so beautiful. Down to even the implications of them dying to drowning it still beautiful. Seeing the images of everyone being reunited and tying that to the songs lyrics of two people who love each other only being able to see each other on one day a year… (and thats my deceased brother’s birthday ironically!!!) its just so beautiful. I think it shows her versatility.
Shes not just throwing brands on a screen and making the kids dance for money, she’s always making some sort of social, political, emotional stance and i think her take on idol culture, korean society, being a woman…. I think its all just very beautiful and honestly relatable. She gets so much hate based off of lies and out of context arguments being made that i wonder if people really ever took a moment to critically think on their own if theyd really be able to look at themselves with pride. Imagine super popular people in your school or job spread a rumor (that at this day in age could fit ANYONE) about you being a pedo, then they leak it to the internet, then they let it proliferate and add fuel to the fire because theyre your enemy and start taking your words out of context and professionally editing them, posting those and then being slandered by hundreds of thousands of people and still standing strong in your cause?
Yall are gonna feel stupid one day for letting BHS tell you who to like.
The top two groups at SM in their respective era was SNSD and now Aespa. Both of whom did not require MHJ
If anything the groups she produced while they were indeed regarded for their good concepts and music (FX and RV) never reached the top #1 spots in their generation having both fandom + GP.
Will they be successful? Sure she is good. Will they be one top, imo it’s hard to say.
She was SNSD's art director for Gee and Genie so yes she had trememdous influence in their success. Specially when they became nation and asian phenomon with Gee .
Also for fx and rv, she literally gave them the best production, concept in all kpop. but again she didn't have full control of the groups like she did with njs so it's not really comparable situations. alot of problems regarding these groups were also linked about how badly they were treated or promoted by sm. when sm didn't even bother to promote psycho but instrad chose to focus on his bgs expansion in usa, it was pretty telling to say how the management didn't try their best to push these ggs.
and most importantly, these groups debuted like 10 years ago, meanwhile she learned and gained so much experience since then. the 2024 mhj is vastly superior to 2014 one. she knows the best strategies to when and how debut groups or memebrs. promotion stategies etc. that's why she is also so against hybe's multi debut gg strategy.
And aespa, lol... it's just a theory of mine but i think she was their ghost directive producer this year. ultimatly aespa was lsm's group (but he is exiled), and chris lee probably accepted to let her take the lead with aespa first full album + all 2024 activities since sm was falling apart at the start of 2024, and all of them from lsm, to chris lee to mhj wanted to take away those daesangs from hybe this year. lsm probably convinced him to put his grudges against mhj aside and they all allied against bang/hybe. obviously with the support and investement of kakao. (who also has a huge grudge and rivarly with hybe)
just looking at the mvs and even the production, it screams mhj lol. and the end of kwangya concept which was invented by lsm etc... the meaning of the songs and mvs too tell alot. there is a major mhj/njs vs hybe/bang lore to it.
anyway.
Also to answer this thread, it's very likely to happen, actually it happened with njs. the first group with who she had FULL control.
But smgg are gonna be Chris Lee's gg. So no, they're gonna flop. Or semi flop. I don't expect better quality than riize. At last, LSM had sparks of genius. But Chris Lee?? He's only another MHJ copycat. Another bang but less nasty, less egomaniac, less irational (probably through lsm's influence) and just less powerful.
Display MoreI think at this point in time yes. They would probably have at the very least Gfriend level success. Some hits, definitely fans and albums sold. I dont care about MHJ for her success though, i care because she makes something thats interesting. She actually cares about the product and what every aspect will do for the entire image as a whole. She thinks of idols as a canvas for art and tells a story and thats why i felt Red Light and Pink Tape were so enticing, same for Shinee’s View or really anything Red Velvet from Happiness to Bad Boy.
Like you can tell theres such a large level of care put into the concepts she thought of before having full control.
Non popular example:
One of These Nights being so simple, the music video being a very tasteful, thought provoking story that pays tribute to the Sewol Ferry victims was so beautiful. Down to even the implications of them dying to drowning it still beautiful. Seeing the images of everyone being reunited and tying that to the songs lyrics of two people who love each other only being able to see each other on one day a year… (and thats my deceased brother’s birthday ironically!!!) its just so beautiful. I think it shows her versatility.
Shes not just throwing brands on a screen and making the kids dance for money, she’s always making some sort of social, political, emotional stance and i think her take on idol culture, korean society, being a woman…. I think its all just very beautiful and honestly relatable. She gets so much hate based off of lies and out of context arguments being made that i wonder if people really ever took a moment to critically think on their own if theyd really be able to look at themselves with pride. Imagine super popular people in your school or job spread a rumor (that at this day in age could fit ANYONE) about you being a pedo, then they leak it to the internet, then they let it proliferate and add fuel to the fire because theyre your enemy and start taking your words out of context and professionally editing them, posting those and then being slandered by hundreds of thousands of people and still standing strong in your cause?
Yall are gonna feel stupid one day for letting BHS tell you who to like.
Beautifully and powerfully written, friend. But first of all, sorry to hear about your brother. Never easy having to speak about family in past tense, no matter how much time flows by, so condolences.
But you make a very cogent point, and the user who just responded somewhat stole my thunder and hit all the follow up points I was going to make.
People aren't using nuanced thinking, because they're looking at MHJ in a vacuum. For example, they just flatly compare what she did pre-NJ to her NJ era results, but I'm asking about what present day MHJ could do with full control of the SMNGG. That means all the experiences, the success and failures, she's gained and and learned from would be at her disposal.
Personally, as I've already made clear, I think they absolutely would be the top girl group of the 5th generation under her leadership and vision.
Why are you acting obtuse again? She got famous from the initial HYBE mediaplay after being poached from SM. Her debut group released a music video on a channel with 70M+ subscribers. She found the members for NewJeans through HYBE auditions and other HYBE sublabels. HYBE gave her a bigger platform than what SM could've. Imagining it would've been easy for her to get to this level if she stayed at SM is foolish.
Why are you acting obtuse again? She got famous from the initial HYBE mediaplay after being poached from SM. Her debut group released a music video on a channel with 70M+ subscribers. She found the members for NewJeans through HYBE auditions and other HYBE sublabels. HYBE gave her a bigger platform than what SM could've. Imagining it would've been easy for her to get to this level if she stayed at SM is foolish.
Okay, now wipe the foam off your mouth and try to articulate your argument without childishly lashing out at me with personal attacks against my intelligence.
There is a reason HYBE gave the woman an ENTIRE COMPANY to get her to stay, so let's not talk about obtuse behavior, hmm?
And it's not like we're comparing apples to oranges here. SM IS ALSO A MAJOR ENTERTAINMENT LABEL WITH WAY MORE HISTORY AND RESPECT IN THE INDUSTRY THAN HYBE.
She would literally still have incredible resources, so your argument would only make sense if I were hypothesizing her ability to debut a top girl group from a nugu label.
Display MoreOkay, now wipe the foam off your mouth and try to articulate your argument without childishly lashing out at me with personal attacks against my intelligence.
There is a reason HYBE gave the woman an ENTIRE COMPANY to get her to stay, so let's not talk about obtuse behavior, hmm?
And it's not like we're comparing apples to oranges here. SM IS ALSO A MAJOR ENTERTAINMENT LABEL WITH WAY MORE HISTORY AND RESPECT IN THE INDUSTRY THAN HYBE.
She would literally still have incredible resources, so your argument would only make sense if I were hypothesizing her ability to debut a top girl group from a nugu label.
SM didn't market her like HYBE. She was majorly unknown to most kpop fans unlike now. F(x) and Shinee's visual identity laid with SM until HYBE publicised that she was behind the groups' creative aspect. And yes, I will call you obtuse if you still deliberately deny this fact.
You won't be calling anything until you successfully manage to read, comprehend and interpret what I'm writing. Nothing you just reiterated negates any of the points I just made.
There is always tremendous hype around SM girl groups, and SM has spent most of the past two decades as the largest entertainment label in K-Pop.
Min Heejin would not be hurting for resources or company clout, and you're honestly being intentionally daft if you think NewJeans' success was because HYBE marketed MHJ (most people didn't pay attention or give a damn about that by the way--a LOT of NewJeans fans weren't even K-Pop fans before NewJeans) and NOT because of her creative vision and execution.
That is a ridiculous argument, built on attributing all of her success to HYBE.
So I will also reiterate
This is a very minuscule slice of the K-Pop community, on a platform that decreases in popularity every year. It's okay to admit you were wrong. It won't cost you anything.
I am not? I literally said that it's the junction between sm and hybe that made nj so successful? Youre that one that is ignoring it and acting like it didnt contribute to their popularity. Hybe literally mediaplayed the fact that they got an sm employee, if it didnt matter it wouldnt even be news back then
I am not? I literally said that it's the junction between sm and hybe that made nj so successful? Youre that one that is ignoring it and acting like it didnt contribute to their popularity. Hybe literally mediaplayed the fact that they got an sm employee, if it didnt matter it wouldnt even be news back then
That's a ridiculous claim. What made NewJeans successful were the members, their incredible music, their nostalgic and aesthetic concepts, their promotional methods, incredibly uniquely stylized branding and the overall presentation of these qualities to the public in a very palatable and novel manner. The mastermind behind that was NewJeans. It only worked as well as it did because MHJ ignored and fended off HYBE's involvement and interference.
Attributing the majority of NewJeans' success to HYBE or SM stans is honestly just delusional head canon. We both know your history of writing off their achievements as Payola throughout all of 2023, so it doesn't surprise me you have this perspective.
That's a ridiculous claim. What made NewJeans successful were the members, their incredible music, their nostalgic and aesthetic concepts, their promotional methods, incredibly uniquely stylized branding and the overall presentation of these qualities to the public in a very palatable and novel manner. The mastermind behind that was NewJeans. It only worked as well as it did because MHJ ignored and fended off HYBE's involvement and interference.
Attributing the majority of NewJeans' success to HYBE or SM stans is honestly just delusional head canon. We both know your history of writing off their achievements as Payola throughout all of 2023, so it doesn't surprise me you have this perspective.
Not surprised that you think it's ridiculous. You always talk shit about what other people say when it doesn't match your biases. Youre uncapable of facing any truth that will deny your delusions. There you go again. It's a surprise to me how some akp stans still take you seriously lol, very easily impressionable bunch
Yes Yama, NewJeans is that special snowflake you think they are due a magical force that only happens once in a billion years
Why haven't the other HYBE girl groups had the same success then? We know HYBE wanted LSF to succeed more than any girl group under their label, but their debut numbers aren't even 1/3 of what NJ accomplished.
That's why I added the caveat that MHJ would have full creative and administrative control just like she did in ADOR.
Looking at the current offering a new gen girl groups, and how... derivative they are, I think a MHJ led SMNGG would easily dominate
The same can be argued for MHJ as well, she’s also not produced a second big group outside of New Jeans.
So like what’s your point.
You keep saying “if MHJ has full control” like that even matters.
But companies work in specific ways. And SM will not give anyone that much control. For SM ”SM” matters the most. Nothing else not even the artists. So no MHJ can never produce a big group in SM because she’ll never be given that power and that’s not likely to chnage. Shell just produce decently successful but overall average groups like RV, FX, Shinee. If they can have completely control and still have hit groups why will they change that to accommodate MHJ? No reason to.
Nope, even MHJ and all the shamans in the world can't stop BABYMONSTER
Okay, now wipe the foam off your mouth and try to articulate your argument without childishly lashing out at me with personal attacks against my intelligence.
The irony in this is palpable, lmao.
But no, I don't think so for a variety of reasons:
1. I doubt SM will give her the freedom that she was granted under HYBE.
2. I doubt she will even consent to it because in a way that would be ditching NewJeans and she's made it pretty clear that she's not leaving NewJeans.
3. With SM, only one group can be popular at a time. So if the new gg debuts, AESPA will likely get pushed backstage and we all know how pressed mys can get.
4. I just don't think so. She has too many receipts under her belt and i dont even think SM would want her back.
Not surprised that you think it's ridiculous. You always talk shit about what other people say when it doesn't match your biases. Youre uncapable of facing any truth that will deny your delusions. There you go again. It's a surprise to me how some akp stans still take you seriously lol, very easily impressionable bunch
Yes Yama, NewJeans is that special snowflake you think they are due a magical force that only happens once in a billion years
You still stand behind the "ETA was a Spanish terrorism concept" crack theory and agenda you tried to push here during the roll out of the Get Up album.
Do not cast stones from a glass house, friend.
So like what’s your point.
Just read. It's not difficult to find.
You keep saying “if MHJ has full control” like that even matters.
I'm not even going to read anything after this.
The tone deafness is awe inspiring in a way. We are literally 9 months deep into a huge war between HYBE and MHJ precisely because of her having and wanting to maintain full control.
Do you read what you type?
Display MoreThe irony in this is palpable, lmao.
But no, I don't think so for a variety of reasons:
1. I doubt SM will give her the freedom that she was granted under HYBE.
2. I doubt she will even consent to it because in a way that would be ditching NewJeans and she's made it pretty clear that she's not leaving NewJeans.
3. With SM, only one group can be popular at a time. So if the new gg debuts, AESPA will likely get pushed backstage and we all know how pressed mys can get.
4. I just don't think so. She has too many receipts under her belt and i dont even think SM would want her back.
...it's a hypothetical. Nobody actually thinks she's going back to SM. The entire point is to speculate about a scenario that couldn't actually happen in reality but would be interesting to theorize over. It's no different from me making a thread called "Would NewJeans have even bigger hits if Soyeon became their main producer instead?", which is something Soyeon actually said she wanted to do.
...it's a hypothetical. Nobody actually thinks she's going back to SM. The entire point is to speculate about a scenario that couldn't actually happen in reality but would be interesting to theorize over. It's no different from me making a thread called "Would NewJeans have even bigger hits if Soyeon became their main producer instead?", which is something Soyeon actually said she wanted to do.
Well, then hypothetically, its still a no.
Display MoreYou still stand behind the "ETA was a Spanish terrorism concept" crack theory and agenda you tried to push here during the roll out of the Get Up album.
Do not cast stones from a glass house, friend.
Just read. It's not difficult to find.
I'm not even going to read anything after this.
The tone deafness is awe inspiring in a way. We are literally 9 months deep into a huge war between HYBE and MHJ precisely because of her having and wanting to maintain full control.
Do you read what you type?
...it's a hypothetical. Nobody actually thinks she's going back to SM. The entire point is to speculate about a scenario that couldn't actually happen in reality but would be interesting to theorize over. It's no different from me making a thread called "Would NewJeans have even bigger hits if Soyeon became their main producer instead?", which is something Soyeon actually said she wanted to do.
Eye-
It doesn’t matter because SM will NEVER give her that control
You keep talking about something that will NEVER happen. I’m not debating if MHJ can or can’t have a successful group if given full control. Don’t be stupid Yama.
I’m saying she will never be given that freedom in SM so you emphasizing that point is useless.
My god I knew you lacked comprehension but I didn’t realize it was to this extent.
Display MoreEye-
It doesn’t matter because SM will NEVER give her that control
You keep talking about something that will NEVER happen. I’m not debating if MHJ can or can’t have a successful group if given full control. Don’t be stupid Yama.
I’m saying she will never be given that freedom in SM so you emphasizing that point is useless.
My god I knew you lacked comprehension but I didn’t realize it was to this extent.
That's nice. You are not required to participate in the hypothetical scenario. Perhaps you haven't come to that realization either.
This is a god damn discussion forum, and we're free to discuss any meaningless or meaningful topics we want. If you think it's useless, why are you still here? Clearly others want to discuss it, even if you don't.
Bye Felicia
I've been patiently waiting for someone to point this out.
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