Why did every 4th Gen boy group fail to become a true top act and legend?

    Just think about this.


    If you made a list of the top ten boy groups in K-Pop history, it would ONLY be boy groups from the first 3 generations.


    Honestly, if you even expanded it to 20, I think it would still be only boy groups from the first 3 gens.


    What happened?


    Arguably the most successful 4th gen group is Stray Kids, but they're practically nugu in Korea, and they certainly couldn't hold a candle to peak Exo, Wanna One and obviously BTS.


    Honestly 4th generation will be defined by its girl groups.


    When we try to chronicle this chapter in the K-Pop lore, we will start and finish with dialogue about the unprecedented dominance of multiple girl groups. And then as a footnote we'll go "oh yeah there were some boy groups too, I guess"


    We've never seen a generation of male idols have less impact and relevance both culturally and statistically.


    And the crazy thing is that it's unique to 4th gen, as 5th Gen is already showing signs of debuting future superstar boy groups, even virtual ones.


    What happened? ;judgingpepe:

    Quote from YamaChwan

    If you made a list of the top ten boy groups in K-Pop history, it would ONLY be boy groups from the first 3 generations.

    I actually tried to do that in my "K-pop Hall of Fame" thread from 2021:

    The only difference from your top 10 is that I had Shinhwa instead of Sechs Kies.

    Quote from YamaChwan

    It's just common sense ;judgingpepe:


    A legendary Korean boy group making Korean pop music can't be completely nugu in Korea

    Stray Kids isn't completely nugu in Korea. You're exaggerating.


    Regardless, K-pop Industry currently is much bigger than doing korean music to koreans. So we have to take into consideration a lot of other attributes in order to classify an act's relevance.


    If you wanted to center the discussion around Korea, It would be better to say Korea, instead of overall.

  • AllKill VIP

    Name me 5 songs from the first 4 groups that you posted. Each


    Or like 2 of the members each group I don't even know how many members are there though


    No google


    ;judgingpepe:

    Quote from Minazuki

    Stray Kids isn't completely nugu in Korea. You're exaggeranting.


    Regardless, K-pop Industry currently is much bigger than doing korean music to koreans. So we have to take into consideration a lot of other attributes in order to classify an act's relevance.


    If you wanted to center the discussion around Korea, It would be better to say Korea, instead of overall.

    Unlike most people, I don't heavily weight international success considerably more than Korean success. And I never will.


    To have lasting legacy, you should be beloved in your own country.


    The U.S. will NEVER embrace a foreign act the way said act's own country would.


    Look at how accomplished BTS is, and they still get disrespected regularly and the Grammys don't take them seriously.


    I honestly find it impossible to consider a group legendary if they can't make any noise on their home turf.

    4th gen boygroups is more succesful tbh. Even though they are nugus in korea, they do very well internationally, even at debut.


    Meanwhile 5th gen boygroups can’t even catch the attention of international fans. They have to rely on sajaegi to chart high. (Except for plave ;judgingpepe: )

    My knowledge about the boygroups is limited, but is it not just becauce BTS have been so dominant for so many years that they just block out all new groups? Feels like it have not been much other big groups since the 2nd generation.

    Quote from YamaChwan

    Honestly, if you even expanded it to 20, I think it would still be only boy groups from the first 3 gens.

    Now if we're talking top 20, I think there's a case to be made that a Fourth Generation group like Stray Kids could be included. For example:


    BOY GROUPS (Top 1-10)

    • Seo Taiji and Boys (1992)

    • H.O.T. (1996)

    • Shinhwa (1998)

    • g.o.d (1999)

    • TVXQ (2003)

    • Super Junior (2005)

    • Big Bang (2006)

    • Shinee (2008)

    • EXO (2012)

    • BTS (2013)


    BOY GROUPS (Top 11-20)

    • Turbo (1995)

    • Sechs Kies (1997)

    • SG Wannabe (2004)

    • 2PM (2008)

    • Beast/Highlight (2009)

    • Infinite (2010)

    • Seventeen (2015)

    • NCT (2016)

    • Wanna One (2017)

    • Stray Kids (2018)


    Things do get a bit less clear at this point. Who would be your top 11-20?

    Edited once, last by wsoet ().

  • AllKill VIP
  • AllKill VIP

    There's not been a long enough time to see what legacies fourth generation groups will leave. I would go so far as to argue that even a good portion of second generation is too recent to really see their impact over a long scale.


    I need songs and groups to be a couple of decades old before I can really determine legacy and impact.

    Well, I respect your opinion. Unlike many in this forum, I don't appreciate to walk in circles writing the same thing 500 times without any objective result.


    To be honest, I don't agree when people completely ignore domestic success over international success and I don't heavily weight accomplishments in Korea over other markets as well. I prefer to find a balance and to considerate the current state of K-pop.

    Our lists are identical except that, due to how much I value domestic success, I might be tempted to exchange Stray Kids for Winner, but that would be hard to argue numbers wise. Internationally Stray Kids crush them, but Winner (and iKON) had much, MUCH bigger hit songs


    Stray Kids never had a song with even 10% of the impact of Love Scenario or Really Really

    Quote from Minazuki

    Well, I respect your opinion. Unlike many in this forum, I don't appreciate to walk in circles writing the same thing 500 times without any objective result.


    To be honest, I don't agree when people completely ignore domestic success over international success and I don't heavily weight accomplishments in Korea over other markets as well. I prefer to find a balance and to considerate the current state of K-pop.

    I know I sound like selfmate , but we all have our criteria and there is no universally recognized and applied standard for wwhich criteria matters most for ranking groups.


    I'm sure if you asked Koreans in Korea about how much western accomplishments matter, many would say it doesn't at all compared to being a hit group in Korea.


    Meanwhile there are ifans who think Korea is completely irrelevant.

    I agree with Minazuki on Stray Kidz being one of the top groups of all times no doubt about it. They’re clearly the biggest 4th Gen group by far…ahead of any BG or GG and I don’t think any of them are going to come even remotely close to them in the near future.


    Korean excellence isn’t the only metric I suppose esp when you’re so far ahead of everyone else in your generation the way stray kids are.


    Out of every other group imo SKZ is the only true successor to BTS and BP in terms of worldwide popularity. What they’ve done with their charting and touring will easily place them in any top group discussion.


    At the beginning of their careers I had assumed txt would fair the same way but that turned out untrue but it was an interesting few years to see SKZ cement their place on the top with no competition.

    Quote from ISaidISaid

    They’re clearly the biggest 4th Gen group by far…ahead of any BG or GG and I don’t think any of them are going to come even remotely close to them in the near future.

    :meme-u-ok::meme-doubt::meme-what-willis::meme-barbie-crack:


    That is a laughable statement. No disrespect to Stray Kids.


    The top 4th gen girl groups are FAR ahead of their boy group peers


    This may be the worst take you've ever posted in the history of your bad takes

    Not even people who actively hate SKZ at this point would claim they're not a true top act or one of the most popular kpop groups overall.


    I know many GG stans don't like this fact because they exaggerate the importance one dying korean chart compared to.. well literally everything else, all to hype GG faves and they don't take into account the whole picture. But no objective person would say a group like Super Junior is a bigger group than Stray Kids.


    And despite being suuch flops in SK, they still are the only 4th gen group able to sell Gocheok Sky Dome and by far the 4th gen group that sell the most tickets in their home country lol.


    You're setting it up like a general discussion but ignore every other metric in the world, so it just seems meaningless. Just say you want to talk about Korean charts?

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    Like 3

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


    Sorry but Super Junior are a legendary group that was at the forefront of the Hallyu Wave that ushered in a new era of K-Pop from the confines of South Korea into a globally consumed product that made all the international achievements you see today possible.


    Their hit songs are timeless classics and would be instantly recognized by any generation of K-Pop fans, destined to be Karaoke staples for years to come.


    Just because they're not as relevant today, don't you dare disrespect them just because you're upset Stray Kids have zero domestic popularity relative to the other groups mentioned in this topic. It amazes me that out of all the boy groups I listed, you thought Suju was the lowest hanging fruit for some reason.


    I think you must be a relatively young fan to make a comment like that.


    I never said Stray Kids was unaccomplished or lacking in popularity, but compared to their predecessors and the names I mentioned in this thread? They are not nearly at that level. You have to pretend being irrelevant in Korea isn't a big deal to force them into the conversation.


    Would you say Stray Kids can look eye to eye with Big Bang? With Exo? With BTS? No?


    They're not on that level.

    I think that what catches my attention the most in their international accomplishments is that Stray Kids are able to appear in the chart of markets (Spotify or even Official Charts) which are somehow restrict to music from other regions overall, not only asian music. Curiously, markets even most popular songs on K-pop Community don't appear at all apart from strict groups, unlikely they have autoplay's support (or even with it sometimes). Or albums with global distribution don't chart as good or don't chart at all with only streaming and digitals, but Stray Kids does.


    It kinda points out how majority of their audience in these regions aren't listening to Stray Kids, because K-pop is popular and said group is one of the thousand acts they follow. They are hardcore to Stray Kids and mostly likely will show up in big venues to watch them live. That's why I think It will reflect in their final touring numbers when we see it once their global stadium tour is finished in the future and not other boygroup not named BTS will come close.

    I think 4th gen got the short end because BTS was so everywhere/all the time that the market was kind of saturated and people didn't want more BGs.


    I do think SKZ has an argument for top 10 though. Monster fanbase. The only con would be that they don't really have that monster song everyone knows.

    Quote from red11

    The only con would be that they don't really have that monster song everyone knows.

    That's a huge con. Music is ultimately what all these groups will leave behind once the comebacks stop and the touring slows down to a crawl over the years.


    And this goes for ANY music act, not just K-Pop. You need to have big hit songs to achieve legend status.


    When Growl pops on, everyone knows whose song it is.


    When Fantastic Baby starts playing, we know Big Bang is in the building.


    And if you hear Dynamite, there's no doubt you're listening to a BTS classic.


    This thread is not meant to just be about Stray Kids, but it's turning out that way.


    I can see their fans are somewhat offended by the thread premise...but these boys aren't close to a top 10 group all time in my eyes.

    Quote from Elliah

    And despite being suuch flops in SK, they still are the only 4th gen group able to sell Gocheok Sky Dome and by far the 4th gen group that sell the most tickets in their home country lol.

    Interesting you pointed It out, Ms. Elli.

    It's really great how they have 0 problems when It comes to selling tickets in their home country.


    In 2023, they were the 7th idol act with the highest amount of domestic tickets sold and only 2 concerts in Gocheok which they sold out in the first hours. Their fanmeeting with 3 dates in KSPO Dome earlier this year sold out in less than 3 hours during pre sales despite the korean fanclub restriction of one ticket per person. And their current dominATE tour sold out all their 4 dates in first hours as well.

    Quote from YamaChwan

    I can see their fans are somewhat offended by the thread premise...but these boys aren't close to a top 10 group all time in my eyes.

    Apart from me and Elliah, I've never seen any of the people commenting here defining themselves as Stray Kids fans, they just disagree with you.


    And talking about myself, I'm not even remotely offended by the thread. I LOVE discussing their career, It's a hobby. Even If other people disagree with me.

    Quote from Minazuki

    Apart from me and Elliah, I've never seen any of the people commenting here defining themselves as Stray Kids fans, they just disagree with you.


    And talking about myself, I'm not even remotely offended by the thread. I LOVE discussing their career, It's a hobby. Even If other people disagree with me.

    Well I'm not trying to fixate on Stray Kids or call them out specifically. This is an overall assessment of all 4th Gen boy groups. They're all lacking, sometimes a lot, in some category in ways their predecessors did not.


    This is also the first generation where clearly the top acts are girl groups (one in particular--we all know who).


    That has never been the case in any generation until the 4th.

    Oh dear, have I now made it so I get the infamous Yama essays?:memoji-cat-scare:


    Anyways, we could go into a back and forth of groups and their numbers but it will all just lead to us having a fundamental disagreement when it comes to what charting we value most where and by how much it matters relative to each other. Imo, when you chart, sell and tour, so well (and even break records some countries) in so many places around the world, that outweighs lower popularity in SK (especially when said group still are one of the groups that sell the most tickets in SK so easily anyways). But if you want to discuss SK you'd probably get more valuable discussion if you state it.

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    Quote from YamaChwan

    Well I'm not trying to fixate on Stray Kids or call them out specifically. This is an overall assessment of all 4th Gen boy groups. They're all lacking, sometimes a lot, in some category in ways their predecessors did not.


    This is also the first generation where clearly the top acts are girl groups (one in particular--we all know who).


    That has never been the case in any generation until the 4th.

    I believe It became about Stray Kids mostly, because they might be the only boygroup in the generation people see to have a chance among all timers, so people find how you positioned them debatable.


    I don't think someone thought you wanted to attack them specifically.

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