2018 groups are 3rd gen *long text*

2018 should be considered 3rd gen based on the groups that debuted that year. The biggest 2018 rookies were Stray Kids, Ateez, Fromis_9, Gidle, Loona and Izone. All of them except maybe Gidle have much more in common with other 3rd gen groups than 4th gen groups.

Starting with the girl groups, 3rd gen girl groups were known for their cute concepts, large number of members, fun and catchy choreographies and mainly targeting Asian countries like Japan. While 3rd gen ggs were more dance focused than 2nd gen they still had powerful main vocals and high note compilations were standard. Fromis9, Loona and Izone all share the majority of these traits with groups like Twice, ioi, WJSN, Gfriend etc.. Fromis9 and Izone also debuted from Mnet idol survival shows which dominated a large part of the 3rd gen. On the other hand 4th gen groups like Itzy, Everglow and Aespa have girl crush concepts, are dance and performance focused, target an international audience and have a smaller number of members.

Fromis9 debuted with To Heart, a song innocent and cute enough to rival early Gfriend. They also debuted from an Mnet survival show that aired in 2017. Their main focus is Korea, not the international market.

Loona started to drop solos all the way back in 2016 and would have debuted in 2017 if their debut hadn’t been pushed back. While they’ve later swapped to a girl crush concept (like many other 3rd gen groups) they debuted with Hi High, an energetic and cute song. Most of their predebut promotion also leaned more towards the cute side, especially their sub units. Plus 12 members are close to unheard of among 4th gen girl groups.

Izone is a Produce group with 12 members targeting Japan. If that doesn’t say 3rd gen what does? Their concept is elegant but again much closer to being labelled as cute than girl crush.

Now for boy groups. Boy groups have been floundering the last few years not really finding anything that sticks and the difference between generations is less obvious. Still both SKZ and Ateez seem to have been created with 2015 BTS as a mold. Powerful dancers and performers with a strong rap-line and a hiphop concept. New 4th boy groups like Txt, Treasure and Enhypen all have much softer concepts. Txt and Treasure have fresh, youthful and even cute concepts. Enhypen also has a less aggressive concept compared to Atz and Skz and have a more pronounced sweet boyish side. Rap is also less of a focus point. Txt and Enhypen don’t really rap and even Treasure, a Yg group, is more vocal focused.

My point is that most 2018 groups share more traits with 3rd gen groups than 4th gen.

Quote from MrAkimo123

It makes sense. Tbh, there no exactly definite points what year is the start of 4th gen

True all the generations are very vague. I just don’t get why most people keep saying 2018 was the start of 4th gen instead of 2019. Like there’s no good reason.

Quote from bumble-bunny

I see your point actually, this was well thought out. Honestly, generations are really vague, and can depend more so on peak than on debut, however I think 4th is still way too early to make definitive answers on what counts.

Yep calling 2018 4th gen has always bothered me and was finally able to formulate one of my main reasons why. But you’re right, the generations are vague at best and think all this will be easier to figure out in a couple of years. Hindsight is 20/20

Quote from delicak

I actually agree with you on this. I never understood why groups debuting in 2018 were called 4th Gen. 3rd Gen was and IS still very much alive and thriving. Imo the very START of 4th Gen happened when TXT and ITZY debuted on the scene in 2019. I think 4th Gen will really kick off once YGNGG, SMNBG and BHNGG debuts within the next year or so. I have a feeling this year or next year will be the defining year for 4th Gen just like 2016 was for 3rd Gen.

Itzy, Txt and other 2019 groups actually feels like the beginning off something new, while 2018 everything was just the same.

Quote from ill-pray-4-u

Would be better if 2018 groups were part of 4th gen because they're all completely overshadowed by BP and BTS for 3rd gen for anything they ever do.

2018 feels more like 4th gen anyway.

Haha yes. Sometimes it feels like fans wants their faves to be 4th gen so their achievements sound more impressive. “first 4th gen group to...”

How so?

Quote from kayn

Koreans themselves define 2018 as a new generation, concept has nothing to do with it

Maybe but why? Is there any good reason for it?

Quote from quark12395

So what about 3rd gen boy groups that debuted with soft/bright concepts? Seventeen, Astro, NCT Dream, Golden Child, The Boyz... If mimicking 2015 BTS makes Stray Kids and Ateez 3rd gen, then shouldn't mimicking 2015 Seventeen make TXT and the others 3rd gen?

Fair. There’ll always be groups doing different stuff and these generations aren’t exactly something clean cut. And as I said it’s way harder to see any difference between boy groups because there haven’t been any popular trends among them the same way it’s been among girl groups. But as I remember 3rd gen boy groups were way more rap focused with more powerful/aggressive concepts compared to new boy groups. Also a lot of focus on self producing which is also less of a thing among new boy groups. TXT might have a similar concept to SVT but they aren’t self producing, they don’t have a rap unit, they have less than half the number of members.

Quote from kayn

ITZY and aespa that are similar to BLACKPINK in some way

But Blackpink wasn’t exactly the average 3rd gen group. They were an outlier. But yes, many 4th gen groups are probably inspired by BP

Quote from kayn

has a group that debuted yesterday and has a sound similar to NCT. There are several girl groups with a concept similar to BLACKPINK

even if you take BTS as an example you can say that they are not 3rd generation because at the beginning of their career they looked like a group of the 2nd generation of YG

Maybe my argument for boy groups wasn’t great but I stand by girl groups. And I did say that it was more difficult with boy groups since they’ve been kinda all over the place. And that boy groups haven’t changed isn’t exactly an argument for them being 4th gen, is it. I would still argue that new boy groups are less focused on rap and self producing, which skz and Atz obviously are.

Quote from ZestyMochi

Since you are categorizing groups in generations based off sound and group size where would you put AOA? They debuted the same year as Exo who are known as the start of the 3rd gen.

I’m trying to categorise them based on trends and norms. Not gonna place AOA because I wasn’t a Kpop fan when they debuted.

Quote from kayn

I understand your argument, it makes sense on some points, but I don’t agree

I quote wrong LovenRose

Well I’m not gonna force anyone to agree haha.

Why do you think they’re 4th gen tho?

Quote from kayn

because the Korean media treat them like a new generation, koreans in forums also think the same

Which ironically didn’t become a thing until 2018 had already ended. During 2018 most people were still saying it was the 3rd gen.

And with how global the 4th gen is supposed to be I’m not sure why Korean forum users’ opinion matter that much more than international fans’.

Quote from kayn

2012 was only defined as 3rd generation when EXO hit Growl in 2013

I guess we can debate back and forth but I really can’t see what 2018 groups have done to be labelled as 4th gen.

And I might be wrong since I wasn’t into Kpop back then but my sister were and she said people started taking about the 3rd gen in 2011.

Quote from ZestyMochi

Have you heard there music though? AOA had a sexy concept which was trend for girl groups back in the 2nd gen with groups like sistar, afterschool, girl's day, brown eye girls, 9muses etc and overlapped into some of the third gen aka post 2012 groups like fiestar, exid. So if we go by your argument of trends then AOA should be in 2nd gen but then would that make Exo 2nd gen as well?

I feel like trends overlap a lot and the argument about the cute girl groups thing in 3rd gen I don't really agree with because we had 4minuet, CLC, Pristin V and even RV at times doing it years before 4th gen.

4minute is a 2nd gen group? CLC debuted with a cute concept. Pristin V was only a sub unit and Pristin’s whole group releases were pretty cute. The vast majority of 3rd gen groups had cute concepts during the first couple years of their career.

As I said I wasn’t part of the Kpop community so don’t wanna say too much but isn’t very common to consider the start of the 3rd gen later for girl groups than boy groups. When people talk about girl groups 2012 and 2013 are often labelled as 2.5 gen.

Quote from kayn

most consider EXO's debut as the beginning of the 3rd generation, many people consider the Apink that debuted in 2011 as 2nd

True. But you said that Exo wasn’t considered 3rd gen before the release of Growl. I just wondered what you meant since I’ve never heard that before. Growl was their break out track but I’ve never heard that Exo was considered 2nd gen before the released it...

Quote from patrik-k

But I also think that the talk about different generation is someting that will go away because it's not much meaing to talk about generation anymore like it was before when kpop was still something new and had a bit clearly stops/ends. First generation girls groups/second genarion is pretty clear. Second/Third generation a bit less clear, but still a still clear break between 2nd gen groups like Girl's Genaration, Kara, Wonder Girls, T-ara, 2NE1 and 3gen groups like Twice and Blackpink. But you still groups like Red Velvet that is a bordeline 2nd/3rd gen group.

And now.... hard to see any clear lines between any 3rd/4th gen groups, so I don't see much point in talking about 4th generation groups at all.

Skipping generations altogether would certainly make everything easier.