If ILLIT actually pull off getting their debut title track on the Billboard Hot 100, I will change my opinion on biggest debut in K-Pop history

And bump BLACKPINK down to third biggest.

As strong as their debut was, I couldn't ignore the historic accomplishment of DEBUTING in the Billboard Hot 100, Hybe payola and hype be damned.

ILLIT would comfortably slide into the #2 spot for biggest debut ever, and NewJeans would still be sitting comfortably ahead. It's one thing to chart well and break records, but it's another to become the center of the K-Pop universe seemingly overnight and become a cultural reset and phenomenon so powerful that rival companies pay consulting firms millions to understand how you do it.

ILLIT isn't at THAT level, but their international streams are incredibly impressive, and I repeat, nobody saw this coming and you're lying if you claim otherwise.

That is all

Quote from catzi

I thought they were going to flop when they were announced as I'LL-IT and the other member quit but I changed my mind pretty fast as soon as the teasers started and they fixed the group's name

I'll give you your flowers on this. You completely flipped your opinion on them just in time.

Even I can't try to go at you over your original ILLIT takes

Quote from stxr

wdym bts ender, if u ask someone who doesnt know anything abt kpop on who illit or newjeans is they wouldn't know

That ain't true. I meet more and more muggles who knows who NewJeans are.

Not as much as BTS, but NewJeans has literally performed at Lollapalooza, been to two different BBMA year end events and got TWO stages on Dick Clark's New Years Rockin' Eve , which is a huge deal.

Also stop taking that obvious bait

Quote from girlgroupstan21

this is so funny.. why are we comparing 2016 and 2024 international streams, its 8 years gap and A LOT is changing.. the fact is, ILLIT debut is not even anywhere near ITZY debut era so lets just stop there.

and the fact that none of the member are making noise unlike any other girl group for example ITZY with Ryujin and Yuna being the talk of the town, or when Blackpink where Jennie is already an it girl from the first day of BP debut, TWICE with Nayeon, or even Aespa (who failed to enter TOP 30 melon with their debut) Karina and Winter making buzz.

seems like people only tuning to ILLIT because of their trendy music and they're HYBE group.. No one can name any of the member, not even stan Twitter.

Not to mention, atleast we know BLACKPINK achieve all those PAKs and CAKs on Melon during their debut with their own impact and people are actually tuning in, unlike those Spotify stream who got a lot of company push.

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That's cool. BlackPink didn't even have the third or even fourth biggest girl group song of 2016, and only one of their title tracks really even performed comparably to the other top groups.

They also had no physical album sales until 2018.

I've covered this. I've posted the numbers.

Despite that, I STILL have them #2 over IVE and Miss A, due to their immediate impact.

But digitally they were outpaced and outperformed by Twice, GFRIEND and Mamamoo by a significant margin.

Why are you mad at them being #3 anyway? They're still on the podium. Not bad after 8 years.

Quote from girlgroupstan21

we are talking about REAL IMPACT here

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i can agree that Newjeans debut era is bigger than BP but ILLIT... seriously HYBE stan?

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If ILLIT pull off a PAK AND debut on the Hot 100, I'm expecting heat from their fans who want to crown it the biggest debut ever. It won't be, but they'll be much closer than BLACKPINK

Wait, did homie try to sneak Itzy in there?

Quote from Bembosa

I mean but they are. NJ and IVE are level in Korea. But IVE isn’t touching newjeans internationally.

Newjeans latest release definitely did do better numbers than IVE’s so …

Nah. They aren't that close if we're objective and look at the data. I don't feel like fighting Dives tonight, so I'll leave it there.

NewJeans are in a tier of their own. I'm sorry if that upsets other people, but stan your groups because you love the members and their music, not because they have the best numbers.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Blinks vs illit stan(s)... Finally a conflict without internal conflict

You're a Blink so I apologize in advance for the numbers dump I'm going to copypasta in a few minutes to silence the outcry at BLACKPINK being rated appropriately.

People can think what they want about me Slayurfaves but I'm always objective and fair in my assessments

The fact I'm acknowledging ILLIT is proof of that. I scowl every time I check that damnable thread and see what new record they snatched

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Slay is already suffering through a Baemon re-re-debut era, I don't think she can handle more fighting.

And it's getting kind of old and played out. Why not fight Reveluvs or fearnots. Switch it up a little

I spent all of third generation fighting with Reveluvs over third place. I'm tired. Plus Mamamvelvet is a real thing, so my heart was never truly in it.

And I have no beef with Fearnots and predicted LSF to be the second biggest girl group in K-Pop by year end. We likewise have no beef.

It's the incumbents and the ones who thought their group was the chosen one before new denims arrived that have beef with me

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

SNSD? EXO?

I was still too new in the game during peak Sone vs. Blackjack era, even though I was Team 2NE1.

And a boy group? Never. Ever. Even in my peak Big Bang fanboy era, I had no interest in the Big Bang vs. EXO war of 2015/2016.

Quote from killingtime1934

The sweat dripping from yama make their vision so blurry they can't see a gg beat all of nj supposed untouchable records, while nj couldn't even beat bp ones of nearly 8 years ago

I can't even take this seriously. NewJeans have snatched almost every record any girl group could lay claim to in Korea. After nearly every "first" and "fastest" girl group record, the words "NewJeans" will follow.

Did they get a PAK at debut? No, they didn't. Is Hype Boy still a top 30 song on the charts despite us coming up on its 2-year anniversary soon? Oh yes. Yes it is.

There are levels to this.

ILLIT getting a couple Spotify records here and there doesn't make me sweat much.

A PAK + a Hot 100 debut + the sales record (still NJ's for now) would. I'm not even worried about BlackPink anymore.

Other than touring, I don't think they have too many records left that NewJeans haven't already taken with ease.

Quote from girlgroupstan21

ITZY might be a flop now but their debut era is undoubtedly one of the biggest debut era ever

and since we are talking specifically about debut.. here you go !

so my point is valid

itzy debut era.jpg

It was a great debut. I never said they were flops, ggstan. But they weren't in the same tier as NewJeans, BLACKPINK, IVE, Miss A and now potentially ILLIT (these are my top 5 by the way).

In order:

1. NewJeans

2. BLACKPINK

3. IVE

4. Miss A

5. ILLIT

Yes, ILLIT will jump to 2 if they pull off what all the early indicators say they're on schedule to pull off.

Itzy would be in the next group of debuts.

Quote from stxr

my friends dont listen to kpop and have no idea who new jeans is

They live under a rock then

And they'll know about them by the time 2024 ends.

Quote from stxr

no one was talking abt new jeans whenever they debuted, except when they put out ditto and omg.

That's literally and patently untrue. The K-Pop world could not stop buzzing and talking about NewJeans the literal moment they debuted. The impact was seismic and instant, and they've been on top the girl group pantheon ever since. That's why their debut is EASILY the top, even putting their astronomical numbers aside.

Quote from stxr

well miss i acctually live somewhere were there isnt any signs of kpop

Yeah. aespa sang a song about where you live