Do you think Red Velvet was a mid tier group during third generation?

No, but they aren't top tier. They are like an A tier group rather than say a B or S tier.

Nothing justifies putting them at the very top of the ladder, but that doesn't mean they are mid tier either overall, by current standards however, in the here and now, they are likely below mid tier.

Yes rv is the 3rd biggest. But the gap between say the 2nd biggest who is twice and rv is massive be it on kcharts, Spotify, touring, YouTube. Rv could never compete with twice and blackpink in any category

Yes. Mid tier as in below Twice/BP but above MMM/GF. A solid B tier group. Good numbers but they are not top in anything.

They're not mid but there's a big gap between BP/Twice and them

Well, i dont think they are wrong. They are just using different parameters that you use. RV makes less money than Twice and BP, this is a fact. Based on money, we can say RV is mid tier.

I would say the "top" is about 3-5 groups, so in that case I guess they where a top tier group. That don't mean they are at the same lever as Twice or BP, but they are still among the top. Red Velvet is a bit between late 2nd generation and 3rd generation so they kind of competing against groups like SISTAR och Girls' Generation in the early years

Quote from YamaChwan

Do you people not know what we consider mid tier groups?

That's groups like OMG/Lovelyz/WJSN

THOSE are mid tier groups.

Do you not understand how tiers work?

There can still be a gap between items placed in the same tier.

Moreover, the gap between Red Velvet and the competition digitally isn't even that big in Korea. Who had the biggest song in Korea in 2017 and 2019?

The logic used to claim Red Velvet is mid tier can be applied to groups like 2NE1, Wonder Girls and IVE.

IVE haven't sniffed Billboard and their Spotify numbers are exponentially worse than NewJeans. That doesn't mean they're not top tier.

Wonder Girls has nowhere close to the fandom size or album sales of SNSD, but that doesn't mean they weren't top tier.

The logic doesn't logic.

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Lol. Everybody have to think like you, otherwise is wrong? Come on girl.

Calling RV mid tier is a choice.

2nd gen has SNSD, 2NE1, WG & Kara even if WG& Kara were slightly less relevant than SNSD & 2NE1

3rd : Twicepinkvelvet

4th gen : NJ/IVE/Gidle/LSR/Aespa

Quote from YamaChwan

TwicePinkVelvetMMMGFriend

Fixed for accuracy

I can accept MMM but Griend they had one successful year like let’s be serious even OMG is above them.

Quote from YamaChwan

Red Velvet is definitely 3rd generation, along with Mamamoo. 2014 was the humble beginnings, and by the end of 2015, the 3rd generation momentum was impossible to ignore. By 2016, the third generation girl groups were easily the most popular in the industry.

And if anyone here went back in time to 2016 and said Red Velvet was mid tier, they would get roasted with a heat surpassing the fiercest hellfire.

I would know. I fought with third gen girl group fans all the time.

Well, I have the opinion the 3rd generation for GG started with Twice and BP so in that case they are not a "pure" 3rd generation group, but as I say, I count them as a late 2nd/very early 3rd generation group, so it does not really matter much.

Yeah, well I said they where a top tier group becauce they where among the 3-5 top groups, so I think we agree on that.

Quote from YamaChwan

Who had the biggest song in Korea in 2017 and 2019?

In 2019 itzy with dalla dalla for ggs. Dalla dalla has 920M on circle. I don't think psycho reached that? Psycho did very well nevertheless especially given the flop streak they had going on before that.

In 2017 bp's aiiyl was as big as red flavour at that time and now bigger.Aiiyl ends up charting every summer on circle for few weeks. Charting this week itself for some reason. Also what about rolling?

Quote from YamaChwan

That's groups like OMG/Lovelyz/WJSN

Wjsn is low mids. Wjsn only have album sales and let's be real it's nothing great. OMG were top gg in sk for 2020-21 but nothing after that.

Quote from OnceMidzy4ever

Lol. Everybody have to think like you, otherwise is wrong? Come on girl.

OP asking for opinions and proceeds to tell us why our opinions are wrong because they don't lineup with his arbitrary definition of mid tier. Like it seems OP thinks it's top-mid-bottom and everything has to fit into those restrictions lol.

i don't think they're mid. their discog is too good to be lumped in with all the other mid 3rd gen gg

Not like twice or blackpink but still a top group I’d say

Quote from YamaChwan

Timing is the only reason Psycho wasn't top in 2019. It dropped at the end of the year. I counted it as 2019, because that's technically when the song dropped.

I made a thread about Red Flavor months ago. Most agree it's close but it was the biggest song of 2017.

That's two years where RV are in the conversation for biggest girl group song of the year in Korea. That's not mid tier group behavior.

Mid tier groups are ecstatic just to hit #1 on the charts once. Red Velvet did that nearly every comeback in their peaks. Their digital longevity is also second only to BlackPink, despite being the second oldest top 3rd gen group.

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I mean in 2020 OMG had the biggest kchart hit among ggs but I don't think anyone still considered them top tier.

And no psycho 2019+2020 charting included didn't out pace dalla dalla unless I am wrong. But charts did undergo changes from 2019 to 2020 so maybe it got affected? Anyways the difference isn't much.

Their longevity is good but not enough to put them in high tier. And I'd say it doesn't exist anymore after the release of birthday unless they can put out a sustainable song on chart.

The truth is if I were to compare bp/twice with rv, rv does look like a high mid tier. Like the gap is huge in every metric. That's what these people mean.

if RV is mid, what are the rest?

Because there were so many successful early groups, 3rd gen was actually pretty deep.

A Tier: BP, Twice, RedVelvet, Gfriend, Mamamoo, Oh My Girl

B Tier: Momoland, EXID, AOA, Brave Girls, Apink, April

C Tier: Lovelyz, Laboum

D Tier: everyone else

Quote from YamaChwan

Brah.

Gfriend had a humongous year in 2015. Me Gustas Tu was HUGE. And in 2016, you could easily make an argument for GFriend being as popular as Twice. Digitally, Rough and Cheer Up were comparable just like Ditto and I Am.

2017 is when the decline started, but GFriend's peak warrants their inclusion.

Anyone who was around for those years wouldn't dismiss GFriend like that.

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That’s nice and all but still doesn’t make them on the same level as other top groups who 2 years later and at the the end of 3rd gen they weren’t even comparable with anymore like twice and blackpink so I understand both takes. Personally I think that makes them high mid tier

RV had their moments, but was clearly a notch below Twice and BP

Quote from YamaChwan

Brah.

Gfriend had a humongous year in 2015. Me Gustas Tu was HUGE. And in 2016, you could easily make an argument for GFriend being as popular as Twice. Digitally, Rough and Cheer Up were comparable just like Ditto and I Am.

2017 is when the decline started, but GFriend's peak warrants their inclusion.

Anyone who was around for those years wouldn't dismiss GFriend like that.

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Twice debuted almost at the end of the year, so while LOA was a flop, it managed to chart at 16 on Gaon year end charts above me gusta tu, Cheer up was ranked 1 song of the year, rough 3, TT 26 despite being released in 2016.

Add the fact Twice was basically moving like a BG with Twicecoaster among the best selling albums in 2016.

Gfriend prime lasted only a year so no.

If you wish to categorize every group by tier, with a different tier for every level of success, then you'll need a lot more than just 3 tiers (high, mid, low.) So say whatever you want about Twice or BP being more successful, but there's no logical justification for calling the third most successful 3rd gen girl group "mid tier."

your question is worded in bad faith as well and asked wrong.

Quote from YamaChwan

I like this.

Honestly I'm going to find and/or create some graphics on this.

This is what I said too wtf 😭😭😭😭

middle of top tier girl groups maybe?

The 3rd biggest group out of the 50-100 active ggs we had in the 3rd gen is definitely not mid tier, it doesn't make sense.

I guess the argument of the other people is that they don't belong to the "S" tier BP and Twice are, and they're right, but RV would be right below, to word it as if they're "mid" tier is a bad choice of words imo.

Like you said Lovelyz/WJSN/Momoland... were the considered mid tier back then, RV was way above that. I guess there's also many people that weren't into kpop back then.

After all it's not that deep, the other side's point probably simply was that BP and Twice>>RV, and that's true.