Why even bother with idol survival shows when they have such a low rate of success?

And Superband winners Hoppipolla and CraXilver (and also CrackShot) are still nugu.

Wut? Izone literally has two songs in the top 6 of Gaon, back when there was real competition in charts, going up against songs like Dynamite, HYLT, Eight, etc.

You forgot X1, they were a real challenge to the 4th gen BGs that were struggling at the time. I remain unconvinced that the whole Produce takedown wasnt a conspiracy among certain established powerbrokers in the industry that had debuted or were planning to debut their first 4th gen BGs and couldnt have X1 stealing their thunder. Even now, ZB1 is fighting tooth and nail against Riize, Boy Next Door, and whatever BG JYP debuts next year.

And i didnt want to rant about Izone's takedown again but i had to at least put one sentence here...there is a reason why 4th gen GGs only started to truly shine when Izone became Izgone

That is the power of Produce.

I don't think Peak Time was a flop. The show actually did quite well and Vanner skyrocketed in sales and they even got nominated on a couple music shows which never would have even been a possibility without Peak Time.

I mean with all due respect minion

kpop groups as a whole has an even worse success rate than the survival groups you mentioned

for every twice/bp etc there are hundreds of groups that languish in nugudom plus all the groups that we as kpop fans know but just aren't successful...

at least with survival groups they are somewhat more known than your average nugu group

I'd say Fromis_9 is still semi success.

The peak for survival shows is over. Nobody has time anymore. Plus there won't ever be a lineup as good as I.O.I and Wanna one ever again.

Quote from Dreamer95

as even Iz*One whom I put into successful groups didn't have a hit song

iz*one is the only one that you shouldnt even have doubt on being successful. They are arugably the only group that sell well for albums and charted decently both in Korea and Japan. And the offspring groups from Iz*one are way more successful than others (e.g. Wanna One, IOI)

Well.....its better to have low chance than no chance at all.

Produce's groups are popular because they got the top trainees from different agencies due to it being a temporary group. I think the other shows got lower end contestants/trainees.

When survival shows were new and looked fresh and innovative, then of course it was a good move to hold those survival shows, since they were watched a lot and the artists and candidates that won enjoyed a great boost of popularity and success right from the start.

But groups from survival shows stand and fall with the popularity of the survival show they came from, so if the show doesn't do well, the group can't profit from the initial popularity boost and built-in fanbase size.

That's why now I only become fan of the trainees when it's the produce/planet series

About in house survival shows, usually I don't find the trainees as talented or interesting as trainees from produce/planet. Look at zb1, the vocal line is better than most 4th gen bgs and their dance line is amazing too, and it's good to see talented people from less known companies achieve success.