If Irene can be so rude to her stylist to the point that she cried I am sure your fave can refuse cornrows
-
not all idols act the same.
Companies also treat their idols differently
-
-
?
Official thread OST
External Content www.youtube.comContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy. -
tell dem the stylists, they stir shit
-
What?
-
Yup. I'm sure idols have told stylist before they don't want a certain outfit or hairstyle, it's not hard to tell your stylist "hey I don't want this, let's try something else." People act like it's all the companies fault when the idols had to sit in a chair for hours looking in the mirror while stylists braid their hair.
-
If Irene can be so rude to her stylist to the point that she cried I am sure your fave can refuse cornrows, braids e.t.c
-
Yup. I'm sure idols have told stylist before they don't want a certain outfit or hairstyle, it's not hard to tell your stylist "hey I don't want this, let's try something else." People act like it's all the companies fault when the idols had to sit in a chair for hours looking in the mirror while stylists braid their hair.
yeah but remember that some of them are 14-15 year old kids living under the rock aka in company basement, and apparently schools in Korea don't teach kids too much about other cultures, not mentioning parents.
So you can't blame teenager for making braids when even 50-60 year old people in industry are calling them "concept"...
-
Me trying to find the correlation.
-
-
tell dem the stylists, they stir shit
what if Irene was angry at the stylist cuz she keep giving her ugly outfits, i have seen some awful RV styling
-
What age did you find out it was wrong to wear cornrows and dreads? Probably not until some point in your teens because you didn't learn it. If I didn't learn about it, I probably would have thought it was okay, too. Honestly, I thought it was acceptable until the last few years thanks to being on websites like Tumblr. If I hadn't been on Tumblr or Twitter, I wouldn't have known.
-
If my grandmas has wheels she would be a bike?
-
What age did you find out it was wrong to wear cornrows and dreads? Probably not until some point in your teens because you didn't learn it. If I didn't learn about it, I probably would have thought it was okay, too. Honestly, I thought it was acceptable until the last few years thanks to being on websites like Tumblr. If I hadn't been on Tumblr or Twitter, I wouldn't have known.
I am black. I learnt about ca since I was a baby. Are you black?
-
I am black. I learnt about ca since I was a baby. Are you black?
Nope, and that's why educating people about these things is important. Most people would have no clue unless they go into certain social circles on the Internet. I never even learned about cultural appropriation in any school I went to.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Yeah, calling it "octopus hair" is wrong, but I also think Koreans are less politically correct in day-to-day conversations. That's what I noticed when watching variety shows and interviews. They don't really phrase things in a way that westerners would, and that's how it appears to be with other countries where white people aren't the majority as well. Countries where white people are the majority tend to be more careful about the way they phrase things due to their past history regarding racism.
"Reggae hair" is a bit more understandable, although questionable, because reggae is popular all around the world and sometimes that's what people associate dreads with.
I get the frustration. I even made a petition for companies to educate their trainees and idols, although I never expected it to gain any traction:
-
most of them don't know the meaning behind that hair
Yes, but they know racism, especially because when tmz copied and mocked a kpop idols accents when she said she was happy all of Korea was talking about it and news outlets about the racism and when they they do the same to black people so they know what they are doing and a lot of black people who went to korea have said that korea is racist
-
Basically bitch
-
I never understood putting burden on stylist. Lol. Both party are involved.
Stan Twitter has convinced themselves oppar and unnir are being “forced” while the real truth maybe they don’t feel the same way about CA the way you do. Alas according to stan Twitter having different thoughts on what’s CA means the idol is evil. Lol. And that’s pretty much where the problem arises and why stylists get blamed.
-
yes, actually and braids have a deep meaning for black people.
-
Cornrows and dreads i can see being CA for the most part today considering what groups mainly wears it, even if historically they have been worn by different cultures through the ages.
But braids? Braids have been donned by basically every single culture since dawn of man and is still done all over the world to this day, none can really claim ownership over that.
I also wouldnt expect any single native korean to know anything about stuff like this, there is nothing in their education or media that brings up stuff like this, their companies tho should now better when they are primarily trying to target a foregin, and today often western market.
-
not all idols act the same
-
-
Moderator
Moved the thread from forum The Lounge to forum The K-Lounge. -
Yes, but they know racism, especially because when tmz copied and mocked a kpop idols accents when she said she was happy all of Korea was talking about it and news outlets about the racism and when they they do the same to black people so they know what they are doing and a lot of black people who went to korea have said that korea is racist
I'll start off by saying both instances are problematic, but the intentions are different. They're not on the same degree of severity.
When TMZ mocked idols' accents, they did so to make fun of them. When K-pop idols wear black hairstyles, they do so because they genuinely like the look; they often think it's a way of paying tribute. An example would be when Kai had dreads for "Ko Kop Bop." He said it was a way of referencing Jamaican culture and he thought it was cool. It's different from mocking an accent like TMZ did.
In other words, wearing braids or dreads means they think the culture is cool. Mocking an accent means they think the culture isn't cool.
Again, both instances are problematic, but in different ways and not on the same wavelength.
-
cultural appropriation is the biggest bullshit that has ever appeared on the internet
-
-
I don't think this is a good way to put it. It's cold and insensitive. It's fair for people to feel a bit weird about it given the cultural significance of such hairstyles, so I don't think it's right to just undermine their feelings.
I just think intentions matter a lot. A lot of K-pop idols wear these styles because they think it's cool. While that may be deemed offensive, their intentions aren't malicious. They often think they're paying tribute, but clearly, they're not accustomed to western social norms. It's a completely different situation from actual racists who deliberately mock, degrade, and dehumanize others.
Note: Since you mentioned braids, I think the style of braids matters, too. People of various races have always worn braids for athletic purposes, and it's not always done to emulate another race or culture.
-
cultural appropriation is the biggest bullshit that has ever appeared on the internet
I wouldn't say that. I think it's a completely valid concern. There have been instances when people take elements of another culture and profit without providing credit or giving back, doing completely nothing to show that they respect and care about the people or the culture.
However, I feel that many instances in K-pop are taken out of context and idols are unfairly accused of being racists just because they wear a certain hairstyle out of admiration. It's definitely something I'd advise people not to do, but I wouldn't call them racists for it. For someone to be racist, the intention has to be there that they truly despise or look down on another race.
In many of these cases, it's just cultural insensitivity at worst. They're often just honest mistakes. For instance, Kevin of The Boyz has recently apologized for using African-American Vernacular English after his fans taught him why it's an issue to them.
At the end of the day, it's really all about communicating effectively and giving people the benefit of the doubt. This requires understanding and open-mindedness from both sides.
-
It really depends on the idols personal feelings towards the whole ' hair is patented by black culture ' issue and it depends on the company and the idol's status. If it's a baby company or a baby idol, no one cares what they think. If it's big names then they have more say, but it's mostly up to the company. Most idols don't have that much to do with their styles or concepts so it's not really their job. If you're going to blame anyone, it should be the stylists.
-
yeah but remember that some of them are 14-15 year old kids living under the rock aka in company basement, and apparently schools in Korea don't teach kids too much about other cultures, not mentioning parents.
So you can't blame teenager for making braids when even 50-60 year old people in industry are calling them "concept"...
why apparently? schools in the us don't teach too much about other cultures too, only about those who are part of their history. i can assure you that they don't teach anything about hungarian history and culture and vice versa. as expected. hungarians have nothing in common with american history and culture, they have more important issues to learn about.
koreans don't know much or anything about hitler. the nazi controversy has taught us that. "but they should know, korea and japan have a long history", japanese don't know about it either, their youth thought swastika is a manji.
-
Display More
Yeah, calling it "octopus hair" is wrong, but I also think Koreans are less politically correct in day-to-day conversations. That's what I noticed when watching variety shows and interviews. They don't really phrase things in a way that westerners would, and that's how it appears to be with other countries where white people aren't the majority as well. Countries where white people are the majority tend to be more careful about the way they phrase things due to their past history regarding racism.
"Reggae hair" is a bit more understandable, although questionable, because reggae is popular all around the world and sometimes that's what people associate dreads with.
I get the frustration. I even made a petition for companies to educate their trainees and idols, although I never expected it to gain any traction:
better wording is - non-homogenous countries where white people are the majority. eastern europe is homogenous - white - and we don't care about phrasing. tho koreans are more blunt than us, they sometimes go too far even for me
at least once a month we have this discussion.
my country was over 450 years under the ottoman empire (now turkey) and if anyone from turkey wanted to use something from our culture nobody would care, let them use whatever they want.
the concept of ca will always be foreign to me, i will never understand how sharing cultures is a bad thing. this is an international forum, with people of many nationalities, races, cultures, and histories, we're never going to agree on this matter.
-
why apparently? schools in the us don't teach too much about other cultures too, only about those who are part of their history. i can assure you that they don't teach anything about hungarian history and culture and vice versa. as expected. hungarians have nothing in common with american history and culture, they have more important issues to learn about.
koreans don't know much or anything about hitler. the nazi controversy has taught us that. "but they should know, korea and japan have a long history", japanese don't know about it either, their youth thought swastika is a manji.
I agree with this. As an American myself, the expectation that other countries should know American history and the history relevant to our country is utter bs. I don't know the history of many other countries. They cannot teach us EVERYTHING in school.
-
-
Display More
better wording is - non-homogenous countries where white people are the majority. eastern europe is homogenous - white - and we don't care about phrasing. tho koreans are more blunt than us, they sometimes go too far even for me
at least once a month we have this discussion.
my country was over 450 years under the ottoman empire (now turkey) and if anyone from turkey wanted to use something from our culture nobody would care, let them use whatever they want.
the concept of ca will always be foreign to me, i will never understand how sharing cultures is a bad thing. this is an international forum, with people of many nationalities, races, cultures, and histories, we're never going to agree on this matter.
I just do not get the entitlement of some people who know 0 zero about other people’s culture and try to force their social identity politics on countries that have never had a problem with ca or anything in that relation. The expectation of some people is out of my mind. Why would we concentrate on a problem that isn’t that much of a deal or doesn’t work in our value system (example: race is not a thing in my country. We go by ethnicities rather than skin color)?
I understand the need to make certain social problems aware but you cannot copy problems or solutions into other societies without knowing their cultural mindset and values.
-
Display More
I wouldn't say that. I think it's a completely valid concern. There have been instances when people take elements of another culture and profit without providing credit or giving back, doing completely nothing to show that they respect and care about the people or the culture.
However, I feel that many instances in K-pop are taken out of context and idols are unfairly accused of being racists just because they wear a certain hairstyle out of admiration. It's definitely something I'd advise people not to do, but I wouldn't call them racists for it. For someone to be racist, the intention has to be there that they truly despise or look down on another race.
In many of these cases, it's just cultural insensitivity at worst. They're often just honest mistakes. For instance, Kevin of The Boyz has recently apologized for using African-American Vernacular English after his fans taught him why it's an issue to them.
At the end of the day, it's really all about communicating effectively and giving people the benefit of the doubt. This requires understanding and open-mindedness from both sides.
I've never heard of AAVE before reading it here. I'm curious how you can differentiate AAVE from regular speech that is used from day to day basis?
In the quote in the comment above (couldn't find the original comment)I see some phrases that seemed to me just populair Gen-z/millenial sayings, but I didn't know that they had background in African American culture, or that it would seem offensive if a non African American would use. Mind you I'm European, so I guess these nuancances might be harder to read when not American.
But I would compare it to the Dutch language, where in slang/popular modern phrases we also use words from Suriname which used to be a Dutch colony. They also experienced oppression from the Dutch, but using those words or phrases doesn't seem to be an issue.
I guess I'm just trying to understand. Especially from a non-American view it seems very complicated.
-
Display More
I've never heard of AAVE before reading it here. I'm curious how you can differentiate AAVE from regular speech that is used from day to day basis?
In the quote in the comment above (couldn't find the original comment)I see some phrases that seemed to me just populair Gen-z/millenial sayings, but I didn't know that they had background in African American culture, or that it would seem offensive if a non African American would use. Mind you I'm European, so I guess these nuancances might be harder to read when not American.
But I would compare it to the Dutch languages, where in slang/popular modern phrases we also use words from Suriname which used to be a Dutch colony. They also experienced oppression from the Dutch, but using those words or phrases doesn't seem to be an issue.
I guess I'm just trying to understand. Especially from a non-American view it seems very complicated.
That's a hard question to answer because it's difficult to differentiate, especially nowadays when it has become so ingrained in popular language. It's actually the point I'm trying to make. We can't fault people for not knowing right away if something is part of AAVE.
Haha, I deleted my post because I thought I already said everything I wanted to about this topic, so my apologies that you couldn't find it.
Not all Americans view this topic the same way. Some are much more sensitive to this than others. Despite the variances, it's important for me to consider everyone's wishes. Those who are more sensitive to it than others deserve our consideration. Personally, I don't use trendy slang terms or phrases much, so I have nothing to worry about.
Thanks for being open-minded and trying to understand!
-
Participate now!
Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!
