if the evidence sucks it's prolly cause they hate the company or the group
Or just like to stir the pot for attention
some people do tend to believe the "victim" side ko matter what the accusations is.
A lot of people want to side with the victim. Shutting down and dismissing a possible victim just doesn't sit right with them. They'd rather be on the "good" side
For some they're happy that the rival group is suddenly less competition
Why is it surprising bullies are the PERFECT archetype of people who will seek the spotlight lol. I bet half the worlds ent industry as well as sports industry is just filled with bullies. It’s more that korea seems to particularly care about the school violence to a larger extent and public shaming actually has an effect over there.
The number of college athletes who should rightfully lose their right to play but never will in the US makes my blood boil every single day. Not even public shaming matters over here. We have to “protect the kids”. Public opinion hardly matters in many other countries you can be a criminal and still have support in many places…that just doesn’t fly in Korea and it feels like as if “Korea wants idols to be bullies”
Well, to be fair, blingyblinger said "some". You don't think it's true for some?
Well there's annoying apples on both sides.
For the side you're talking about there could be different reasons. They could already dislike the idol/group they are in so they choose to be opportunistic. Some just like to "play it safe" and choose the victim's side since it feels better to them, could also have had similar experiences in the past. Some want attention and blow things out of proportion with no consequences since this is the internet.
some people do tend to believe the "victim" side ko matter what the accusations is.
I get sympathizing with victims as I have too, but it seems they would also rather believe the worst of people.
A lot of people want to side with the victim. Shutting down and dismissing a possible victim just doesn't sit right with them. They'd rather be on the "good" side
I agree when there is an actual victim. Both parties should be treated as innocent until proven guilty. You can sympathize without making a villain of the other party
I stan a dude who regularly has debunked accusations used against him by another fandom.
Everything I know about most bullying cases is due to the fact that some fandom tries to drag him into it.
Yea this is why I asked killthisfenty if she doesn't believe that some who immediately proclaim these people bullies aren't just doing it out of fandom rivalry. It's sad, but I believe it happens. Some people really are way too deep into this.
Ofc but it's hard to stay completely neutral. Bullying is a he said, she said situation and it's hard to defend one without accusing the other. For example defending the idol, claiming that the proof is insufficient and that the accusations sound false etc., comes dangerously close to accusing the potential victim of lying. Both sides are leaving a person in the dust and I think most people would agree that being bullied is worse than being accused of bullying (duh), hence why they'd rather side with the potential victim.
Ofc but it's hard to stay completely neutral. Bullying is a he said, she said situation and it's hard to defend one without accusing the other. For example defending the idol, claiming that the proof is insufficient and that the accusations sound false etc., comes dangerously close to accusing the potential victim of lying. Both sides are leaving a person in the dust and I think most people would agree that being bullied is worse than being accused of bullying (duh), hence why they'd rather side with the potential victim.
I agree that the line to walk can be fine. However this is why I think it is best to just look at the evidence.
Jealousy, resentment, and projection is my guess. Folks enjoy seeing people on top stumble and fall because of jealousy and resentment. And/Or they project their own trauma/issues onto others and villifying a person gives them a way to feel as if they're getting revenge or justice for their own experiences.
Both sides are leaving a person in the dust and I think most people would agree that being bullied is worse than being accused of bullying (duh), hence why they'd rather side with the potential victim.
I'd argue that there are exceptions to this. Sometimes being accused of bullying itself becomes extreme bullying, especially if the person is innocent of the charge. Psychological injury is still injury and it's even worse if you're in a public arena.
I agree that the line to walk can be fine. However this is why I think it is best to just look at the evidence.
Well, for one that's tricky with bullying. Since it's one of those word against word situations most of the time. And secondly, what one person view as real proof might look insufficient to another.
Like the document with Garam. Some saw it as solid proof of her being a bully. Others thought it was more likely that the victim had forged it than the her being guilty.
Yea this is why I asked killthisfenty if she doesn't believe that some who immediately proclaim these people bullies aren't just doing it out of fandom rivalry. It's sad, but I believe it happens. Some people really are way too deep into this.
most people are willing to believe victims if only to not discourage someone else from coming forward
fanwars play more of a part in the time after when if the case is debunked or the person apologizes, people still bring it up
I'd argue that there are exceptions to this. Sometimes being accused of bullying itself becomes extreme bullying, especially if the person is innocent of the charge. Psychological injury is still injury and it's even worse if you're in a public arena.
Sure, it can depend, there are always exceptions, but normally being the victim of a crime is worse than being accused of a crime.
Well, for one that's tricky with bullying. Since it's one of those word against word situations most of the time. And secondly, what one person view as real proof might look insufficient to another.
Like the document with Garam. Some saw it as solid proof of her being a bully. Others thought it was more likely that the victim had forged it than the her being guilty.
Proof is always on the accuser - that can't be helped. And the document in Garam's case was a mere fragment with no stamps, headers and the actual report and verdict cut out. Of course it looks suspicious.
I think there is a good point here that your experiences make you more likely to self-insert yourself into these situations. I have both been bullied and falsely accused/sued by people with far more money than me so in the end, I believe that the evidence should win out.
LOTS of different kinds of people get involved with a bullying controversy. For the ones where the evidence is still considered murky, I think I can name a few of these groups:
Offensive Side:
1) Knet(z) who started the accusations in the first place. Either because they are legitimate victims of the idol, Because they are bullies themselves and see this as a way to easily ruin a person, or Because they just have a personal vendetta against the idol due to whatever past event happened so they just see this as a way of getting sweet revenge
2) Knetz who have been bullied in their past and want to see a "bully" in the spotlight get hanged to make themselves feel better
3) Knetz who are aware that bullying is a nation-wide issue and are being emotionally effected by seeing the news of bullying incidents being swept under the rug, so they want to see a "change in the system"
4) Knetz who are against big business and their power
5) Kpop fans (Both Korean and International) who fans of rival groups and Antis, see the moment of weakness and jump in on the attack to fulfill their stupid and pathetic kpop political agenda
6) International kpop fans who are sheep and read the translated articles on Pannchoa and think that if it's written in Hangul then it MUST be true!
7) International fans who are also aware that bullying in Korea is a serious issue and are also more prone to being against the idol because they also find that bullying allegations are being constantly swept under the rug
8 ) International fans who have also experienced some sort of bullying so they also tend to automatically lean "anti bully" just because the idol is simply accused as one
9) International fans who think that all Big Business are evil conglomerates so they tend to go against the idols simply because they have a big business backing them.
10) Bored Kpop fans who see all of it as nothing but popcorn entertainment and just want to join in on the fun of living their "mean girl" fantasies and have an excuse to be online bullies and harass someone.
Defensive Side:
1) Group fans who will automatically defend the idol and group as long as there isn't enough proof to prove the idol is guilty
2) Blind group fans who will defend the idol no matter what happens, proof or no proof.
3) Kpop fans who have personally experienced false-accusation charges and defamation, so they tend to lean towards the idol's side because of their past experience (unless sufficient evidence pops up)
4) Kpop fans who believe that "Innocent until Proven Guilty" is a thing and will side with idols out of principle until sufficient evidence pops up.
5) Kpop fans who have seen all of the fake bullying allegations in the past and are tired of it all, and don't want to see another idol fall victim to possible faked allegations
6) Kpop fans who are disgusted at seeing the online harassment by knetz and inetz and will side with the idol to fight this behavior and online bullying
As you said, in some cases it's true, so it makes sense to include it in the discussion if we're going to be thorough. (I'm guessing your comment was somewhat in response to mine?) I got the shit bullied out of me from kindergarten to 8th grade (physical violence, food thrown at me, kids harassed me at my apartment, etc) but I'm far enough removed from it that I try to be objective because I wasn't always before. I used to be quite emotional.
Display MoreLOTS of different kinds of people get involved with a bullying controversy. I think I can name a few:
Offensive Side:
1) Knet(z) who started the accusations in the first place. Either because they are legitimate victims of the idol, Because they are bullies themselves and see this as a way to easily ruin a person, or Because they just have a personal vendetta against the idol due to whatever past event happened so they just see this as a way of getting sweet revenge
2) Knetz who have been bullied in their past and want to see a "bully" in the spotlight get hanged to make themselves feel better
3) Knetz who are aware that bullying is a nation-wide issue and are being emotionally effected by seeing the news of bullying incidents being swept under the rug, so they want to see a "change in the system"
4) Knetz who are against big business and their power
5) Kpop fans (Both Korean and International) who fans of rival groups and Antis, see the moment of weakness and jump in on the attack to fulfill their stupid and pathetic kpop political agenda
6) International kpop fans who are sheep and read the translated articles on Pannchoa and think that if it's written in Hangul then it MUST be true!
7) International fans who are also aware that bullying in Korea is a serious issue and are also more prone to being against the idol because they also find that bullying allegations are being constantly swept under the rug
8 ) International fans who have also experienced some sort of bullying so they also tend to automatically lean "anti bully" just because the idol is simply accused as one
9) International fans who think that all Big Business are evil conglomerates so they tend to go against the idols simply because they have a big business backing them.
10) Bored Kpop fans who see all of it as nothing but popcorn entertainment and just want to join in on the fun of living their "mean girl" fantasies and have an excuse to be online bullies and harass someone.
Defensive Side:
1) Group fans who will automatically defend the idol and group as long as there isn't enough proof to prove the idol is guilty
2) Blind group fans who will defend the idol no matter what happens, proof or no proof.
3) Kpop fans who have personally experienced false-accusation charges and defamation, so they tend to lean towards the idol's side because of their past experience (unless sufficient evidence pops up)
4) Kpop fans who believe that "Innocent until Proven Guilty" is a thing and will side with idols out of principle until sufficient evidence pops up.
5) Kpop fans who have seen all of the fake bullying allegations in the past and are tired of it all, and don't want to see another idol fall victim to possible faked allegations
6) Kpop fans who are disgusted at seeing the online harassment by knetz and inetz and will side with the idol to fight this behavior and online bullying
Thanks a lot for ending my thread 
I'm 3, 4, 5 and 6 of the defensive side, LMAO 
I studied psychology and my teachers would always tell us that the brain is the most fragile organ we have... and the most complex. Why do people do things? there are a lot of reasons, and I mean a lot. But this is where we divide the adult brain from the infant, toddler, teenager ones etc. It's hard to explain, but some people are who they are, some change some don't..and not bc they can't, bc they don't want to.
But wasn't that my point sorta? You think the proof wasn't good enough so you still see Garam as innocent and believe the victim is most likely lying. Others think there has been enough evidence presented to feel pretty convinced that she is a bully. People aren't lawyers and they definitely don't know the in and outs of the korean school system or their laws. Innocent until proven guilty, yes, but some people already feel like they have seen enough proof. Though I think most are still waiting for more info they're leaning towards one verdict.
Personally I believe the jury system in the US is shit but that's basically how the internet works, and some are more easily convinced than others.
But wasn't that my point sorta? You think the proof wasn't good enough so you still see Garam as innocent and believe the victim is most likely lying. Others think there has been enough evidence presented to feel pretty convinced that she is a bully. People aren't lawyers and they definitely don't know the in and outs of the korean school system or their laws. Innocent until proven guilty, yes, but some people already feel like they have seen enough proof. Though I think most are still waiting for more info they're leaning towards one verdict.
Personally I believe the jury system in the US is shit but that's basically how the internet works, and some are more easily convinced than others.
Excuse me? No, I don't believe the victim is lying - no victim has actually come forward in that case. The accused though is well known and identified.
What I do know is that the evidence is circumstantial at best and I cannot condemn anyone off just that. That would be a miscarriage of justice. I've been called a racist before with fake doctored proof that some believed, so I'm not going to just accept that. Some probably still do believe it and while I think my character speaks to the fact that I am not, I'm sure some still persist in believing the worst of me based off some fake info.
One word: Jealously.
I've said it plenty of times
accusations and allegations don't need solid substantial proof - this isn't so much a court of law but rather the court of public opinion and in a court of public opinion it's up to the respective parties to con(vince) people one way or another...why a person would choose to believe one side or the other or stay neutral depends on their own believes upbringings etc etc
innocent until proven guilty is only a concept that relates to criminal activities and the state punishing people for criminal activities and only in certain countries
innocent until proven guilty is only a concept that relates to criminal activities and the state punishing people for criminal activities and only in certain countries
This part is very sad though 
This part is very sad though
and as can be seen numerous times the mere fact there's an allegation of some sort can destroy a person's career and that's only within kpop let alone the entertainment industries around the world...
although in some other industries a "scandal" can actually help propel your career forward lol
many times i think it would be better for some groups if the members were a secret until the last minute.
I think some people love drama and it's not any deeper than that. It's not that they hate a side or idol or company. It's not jealousy. It's not that they feel a particular way about the issue at hand. They just like drama or maybe find the "mystery" of it interesting.
Others may have a "where there's smoke, there's (usually) fire" mindset especially if there is repeated smoke as it were.
Some people who experienced bullying or had a loved one that did may be predisposed to siding with a purported victim.
And there is a segment that will play devil's advocate who they see a lot of handwaving or automatic defensiveness on the part of the other side. There are people who will be quick to downplay accusations and that's not good either. Accusations should be taken seriously and reviewed by the companies and if the companies don't appear to do their best to clear things up, there will always be the question of whether things weren't true or if they just were quashed. It happens in schools and it happens in real life too.
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