Posts by rvls

Quote from omnimorphism

Things aren't looking good for 2023

the next bts will save them, thoughts and prayers

Quote from Lulu_Key

boy groups digitals really dropped lol

what happened in 2019 ? idols charted the least songs then

no idea, some people theorize it was because of burning sun, but i am not completely sold on this because if that was the sole reason they would have just blacklisted everybody, meanwhile two YG groups charted despite YG being in the center of the scandal by default. i think it's partly because it felt like a transitional year too (as in we were in a new generation officially) so nothing really stuck with people/people had a hard time adapting to the new trends? idk.

Saw this summary of Gaon's year-end chart per year posted on another platform and was like why not repost it here too cause I like stats and reading hot takes.

^{In parenthesis is the number of entries a given group had in the year.}

Mullets and whatever it is that tiktok eboy corny makeup look 4th gen boy groups tend to have.

Quote from ForgottenSoul

Or those countries have general KPOP fans that go to concerts and that person menioned numbers which is why I was confused because this current twice tour literally has no offical numbers.

Anyways that Twitter post is misleading and missing like 35k+ for BP that wasnt counted like they were for twice.

Imo it's best for both sides to wait for total official numbers and refrain from any comparisons until a bit later cause honestly I don't even trust blink fanbase accounts sometimes, a lot of them just be copy pasting any random sh*t they read from anywhere.

Also it should be made clear what both sides are arguing about, are you arguing about profit or attendance? Cause I watch both sides argue and it's not clear. A concert could earn more than another purely due to higher prices but attendance and number of actual stadiums sold-out (not those Arenas with ''stadium'' in the name companies like to mediaplay with) is an entirely different thing. Like context matters if people will want to make comparisons like this. Ultimately I think both tours will be very successful and I still do not think both groups are that far off in terms of touring power so...

Quote from huRRicane8

Idk why are you quoting me but ok

On accident

Quote from ForgottenSoul

I don't see how though? BP charts better overall than twice and has done for years.

We are not talking about current charting or youtube streams or whatnot, we are talking about touring. Twice still had legit hits in Asia back during their heydays, and your casual kpop fan is still familiar with them and likes them enough to go to their concerts if given the chance, so they still have enough people familiar with them/their music overall, which means those same people would be curious enough and willing to attend their tour if they hear they are touring in their country. Besides Twice has a dedicated core fanbase... which is not to say BP does not have a dedicated fanbase, but merely that as far as things like attending events/concerts and buying albums goes, Onces are pretty on par with their dedication.

How do you think western acts that have been underperforming for years are still able to suddenly come out of the cave and still go on tour and do good numbers? It's cause they had big enough hits and a big enough peak in the past which still carries their touring appeal.

Like, as far as digital success goes, obviously BP dominates (especially in the last few years), but I always knew that touring and most likely pure sales power would be the two things where Twice is able to have an almost equal standing ground, entirely thanks to their past legacy and the core of their fandom which has a very dedicated mentality.

I always held the opinion that they are both pretty equal as far as touring goes. I think one might make more profit depending on ticket price and the number of dates but ultimately I think they both have a very similar demand across the board.

Both overly mediaplayed as far as western recognition goes, yet nobody truly cares or takes notice of their companies' constant push, only their fans with delusions of grandeur do.

Though objectively I'd say SKZ has a bit more of an authentic audience but other than that, it's a mid-off and there is no real thrill in this so-called ''rivalry''.

Quote from Ramasson

I am 2nd gen, so that is accurate, we did pave the way

But yeah 4th gen hasn't even started lmao

let me not say something controversial on a fun thread

Quote from Roger-Kevin

2nd gen doesn't seem to have received the memo about their end, dunno what you expect of the two gens after that.

you didn't get it

this is scientifically proven btw so don't argue with me

1st gen stans: ...and f#ck companies!

2nd gen stans: ended? this is so negatively worded 2nd gen never ended you cannot erase legends this is the golden age of kpop their impact is still felt they paved the way educate yoursel-

3rd gen stans:

4th gen stans: you are wrong actually 4th gen just started it doesn't matter it's been half a decade also 4th gen is going to last for 15 years in this essay i will-

Quote from noctrum

So what? Goes to show how there hasn't been a generation leader that stood out and it all blended together. Ggs are rising now but the competition among bgs has been flat and stale. 2nd gen lasted from 2004 to 2012, we're barely halfway through 4th gen and it's still the top groups of 3rd gen that is ruling kpop

It's not flat and stale, you already have established top3 boy groups, and I would even argue SKZ is clearly the leading group for 4th gen globally based on their numbers (yes, both overall and for recent comebacks) so where we go from there. These claims that the competition between boy groups is stale is just misinformation.

Quote from noctrum

4th gen barely begun

it's been 4 years...

Quote from MakotoNijima

4. I don't care if the companies start talking about a fifth gen before they should, I just think it would be hilarious to be on 5th gen with no 4th gen or 5th gen groups at the top, just because the media and the industry wants their groups to feel more fresh and so their fans can claim new achievements.

But that's EXACTLY what the media did with 3rd gen. They debuted a ton of new rookies and they were officially titled 4th gen so they can be seen as more fresh right off the bat and have a bigger appeal. It wouldn't be funny if the media does that, it would be justified and logical because they already did it once before. At least that way they would be consistent at least.

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I mean, if we keep making gens shorter and shorter artificially, we may be on like 7th gen and have 4th gen groups dominating because the overlapping within generations will become insane at some point, I think 3rd gen got the most grow on a shorter period for the industry so I can see why it's considered so short, but most generations should last like 8 years at least to notice some substantial change imo.

We won't keep making them shorter, who said we will, they are just gonna plateau at 6 years, unless kpop goes back to being more local again, there is no reason as to why a globalized generation like 4th gen should last as long as a FAR LESS globalized generation like 2nd gen, 4th gen shares more similarities with 3rd gen than with 2nd gen, thus why it makes sense it would have the same lasting period. Generations reflect the levels of globalization, that's why their length decreases the more globalized the industry is, currently it is as globalized as it can be.

Quote from WhyKnock

There is no iron law about how long a generation should last. But the 3rd Gen had several prominent acts and the 4th Gen acts had different natures from 3rd Gen, namely emphasis on a narrower range of fans, more emphasis on foreign popularity, more compartmentalization and more atomization, etc.

You listing the emphasis on foreign popularity is contradicting, namely it contradicts the ''narrower range of fans'' statement because due to globalization if anything they have a BIGGER range of fans.

4th gen has several prominent acts too, I don't know what are you talking about. 4th gen groups have also won daesangs already. And they all have seen more advantages in certain metrics because of globalization so it's beyond me how can you straight-up claim the opposite just to prove 4th gen should last longer and not 6 years.

If there is no iron raw for generation length why is the argument never for ''4th gen will be shorter'' but always about how it will be longer. lol Because if there is no iron law for it then being shorter than previous gens is also a real possibility. All those ''reasons'' you listed can also be argued as reasons as to why it will be shorter.

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And the trend is unlikely to change in a couple years, so I think changes which began on around 2018 will probably last for at least a few more years.

Yeah for 2 more years.

Quote from MakotoNijima

Who's at the top does matter because it's literally a different gen, they are the representatives of it. Bigbang example isn't good because while they were at the top within their context, EXO debuted, revived the physical market and became a top group as well, marking the start of 3rd gen. No 4th gen group has done half of that success wise neither impact-wise so far.

Maybe but top 4th gen groups have surpassed all mid-tier 3rd gen groups in overall popularity outside of like the very top, does this not count as anything to you? That's an impact on its own. You don't need one single group to pull something like EXO at the start of the generation, you just need to look at overall performance and most of them are doing great, with a focus internationally. There is just lack of such group cuz SM didn't debut a boy group in 4th gen that is not part of the NCT brand, and in all the previous 3 gens it was SM boy groups ''opening'' the generation, which is why the pattern broke.

Quote from jinaland

So should we compare 2018, 2019 groups like (g)-Idle, stray kids or ateez with older ones like seventeen, nct or newer ones like enhypen, treasure, aespa etc.

90% of the time these 4th gen groups get compared to fellow 4th gen groups and not 3rd gen. lol Like they are literally all established ''rival'' pairs, e.g. stray kids vs ateez, itzy vs aespa, enhypen vs treasure. Rarely you will see anyone compare NCT against Treasure or Ateez. lol

Quote from MakotoNijima

Nowadays we still have BTS and BP as the main representatives of K-Pop on the world and they are 3rd gen, and while 4th gen ggs are doing a decent job, overall 4th gen hasn't made any kind of substantial impact or change on the K-Pop industry...

Gens shouldn't happen every 5/6 years, 3rd gen is an exception because it was the gen that saw a bigger amount of advancement for the industry on a very small time, not every gen gets a BTS, an EXO, a Blackpink and a Twice on 5 years and 4th gen is showing that.

It doesn't matter who is the top though, AGAIN, when 3rd gen groups were debuting BigBang was STILL on top, like this whole thing is unrelated. Of course the shift is gradual so these groups won't be on top right off the bat but the point is that 4th gen has already been a thing for 4 years and it makes no sense as to why it should last longer than the previous gen. 2nd gen didn't lat as long as 1st, 3rd gen didn't last as long as 2nd... so why are you all ignoring the pattern.

Generations are divided based on 1. a difference in globalization (or lack of) and 2. different tools these groups use to promote themselves. So 4th gen started because there was a difference in those 2 things. Just like 5th gen will start under the influence of the same in 2024 because these post-pandemic groups will debut in a different climate to their 4th gen seniors and also benefit from even bigger globalization.

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Gens shouldn't happen every 5/6 years, 3rd gen is an exception because it was the gen that saw a bigger amount of advacement for the industry on a very small time, not every gen gets a BTS, an EXO, a Blackpink and a Twice on 5 years and 4th gen is showing that.

So 3rd gen gets the shorter end of the stick? What about all the groups in 3rd gen who still needed time to grow, but media and companies were like ''nope your era is over''. lol

Also if you ask me a lot of these 4th gen groups already have international fame far surpassing most 3rd gen groups so your point is kind of moot...

You all are ignoring the main idea here but all of that won't matter anyways, cause once kpop companies debut groups in 2024 and mediaplay them as 5th gen, fans will just follow with it and it will become official.

Quote from Sanatastic

I’d call them 3.5 gen at the most.

The Korean ministry of culture has called Ateez 4th gen... so what you are saying makes no sense. lol Unless you want to argue with the ministry of culture, kpop companies and korean media.

2012-2017 debuts are 3rd gen, then everyone in 2018 and beyond is 4th gen so no, it should end in 2024 with the same length as 3rd gen. Why? Because it just makes no sense for 3rd gen to be shorter than 4th like what exactly has 4th done to warrant longer period? Imagine telling 2nd gen fans back in the days that 3rd gen will last longer than 2nd, they will laugh in your face because it just makes no sense.

Quote from WhyKnock

Generations do not change that easily

The newer generation will probably be those who begin to debut from around 2027-28.

Although that does not change the fact that all of them have to pay filial duty to the Senior SInger.

Explain to me the reasoning behind why 4th gen has to last 10 years (according to what you wrote) and 3rd gen only 6?