are vocal standards actually much higher now?

not singing live doesn't always mean the standards are lower.

sometimes people expect more than what is realistic and that also leads to more groups not singing live because they don't want to face backlash

The vocals were definitely stronger in the 2nd generation. In the 3rd generation, there are vocally strong groups like Exo, Btob, Mamamoo and Red Velvet. But the 4th generation focuses on strong dance performance and rap skills.

The problem is that we’re too used to perfect vocals nowadays groups lip sync, use pre recorded live, backstack or even the live performances are edited, you can barely flaws. So if an idol starts singing people will drag for not meeting the exceptions.

I would say 3rd gen had more outstanding vocalists but the weakest singer in 3rd gen groups are often worse than the weakest singer in 4th gen groups. Now group members are more close to eachothers level, less idols who are called filler members. Of course there's many exceptions tho

I think you’d have to compare group by group and not by “generation”. Because most of Shinee’s members were proper singers, while then only one in 2PM had a killer voice.

And then I would think the singing abilities, or lack of, of members from Kara, T-ara, 4Minute are comparable to some groups today…. so….

Quote from babybat

well that's what i'm saying, that while there's always some standout idols, most groups aren't really much better than groups now vocal wise. it's less about their ability, group by group, and more about the expectations that are placed on them and if people were more forgiving for any mistakes or lack of ability in the past because there was less expectation of perfection vs now where a lot of groups or their companies refuse to have them sing live because even small mistakes can be blown out of proportion and possibly damage the group's image

Honestly people were critical of live singing then also. I know MR videos were popular back then and groups like T-ara and Kara were always made fun of. It’s just the kpop fandom is much bigger now and with more active groups so it seems like there is heavier pressure.

Also it depends how individual members are marketed. Back in the “2nd gen” many idols were marketed a certain way so whether their voice cracked on stage didn’t really destroy their image. Like Uee and Taecyeon were brandss as hot idols with nice bodies so people didn’t really care whether they can sing…

Imo vocals have certainly gone down. 2G had more live singing (though there was still LS) but also groups and idols back then already recognised as good singers and its only become more apparent in hindsight when compared to 3G and 4G groups.

regarding LS i think the key difference is that in 2g it was used occasionally and mostly for understandable reasons because of having to promote on multiple shows for weeks or months on end plus various other schedules like TV would would put a lot of strain on voices. Whereas in recent years it’s become the defacto standard way of promoting. Like looking through the hundreds of music show perfs over the last few years and more than likely you’ll pick one that is LS. Even special events like gayo are LS which kinda lessens it’s impact. what’s the point of a special end of year event if it’s no different than any music show episode you’ve seen a hundred times through the year?

Quote from harambelives

Imo vocals have certainly gone down. 2G had more live singing (though there was still LS) but also groups and idols back then already recognised as good singers and its only become more apparent in hindsight when compared to 3G and 4G groups.

regarding LS i think the key difference is that in 2g it was used occasionally and mostly for understandable reasons because of having to promote on multiple shows for weeks or months on end plus various other schedules like TV would would put a lot of strain on voices. Whereas in recent years it’s become the defacto standard way of promoting. Like looking through the hundreds of music show perfs over the last few years and more than likely you’ll pick one that is LS. Even special events like gayo are LS which kinda lessens it’s impact. what’s the point of a special end of year event if it’s no different than any music show episode you’ve seen a hundred times through the year?

Besides the lipsyncing, Gayos in general have gone down hill. It’s all the same performances from weekly music shows just with a bigger stage.

Atleast back then companies would regularly work together for Gayos to put together collab performances between multiple groups.

Quote from licoricebtch

Besides the lipsyncing, Gayos in general have gone down hill. It’s all the same performances from weekly music shows just with a bigger stage.

Atleast back then companies would regularly work together for Gayos to put together collab performances between multiple groups.

Yeah that too. Gayos have gone ddownhill.

I'm basically a boomer now lol. Everything was better in my day

This boomer has some interesting YT content. Here is a good vid about how modern "vocals" are made. Pitch correction software has made modern vocals irrelevant. Soulless computers now make it so you can sing literally any note and the software just instantaneously shifts whatever note you sing to the correct pitch.

I don’t know why people think that lipsync has increased. It actually seems more that groups sing live except a few exceptions like comebacks or a few groups but a lot of rookies are singing live

Were you on fan communities back then? Because voice flaws were always criticized before too. However I can’t remember encores being worse than the actual performance like some encores now. Because back then the backtracks on the actual performances were less heavy, had less processing etc.. so encores were not much different from stage to make a big deal out of. Idols rarely sing raw live without editing or lip-syncing.

I see more fans glorifying average vocalists now than in the past. If an idol sang any line live without messing up, they would get praised to hell over it.

Quote from harambelives

Yeah that too. Gayos have gone ddownhill.

I'm basically a boomer now lol. Everything was better in my day

lol speaking if lipsyncing

Mir and some of the maknaes here didn’t even bother hiding the fact they weren’t singing live.

I think 2nd gen were more used to singing live so they didn't get as nervous and self conscious. Also since there were more live performances you could tell when they were having a bad day or a good day. However now when a rare occasion a group sings live and doesn't deliver, people assume they just can't sing cause there's nothing to compare to, when the bad performance could be because of many factors.

Also 2nd gen did get critism for bad vocal performances but they could recover on their next live and show they improved