Vocals????

Maybe because they are so young, their voices are childish and high-pitched , as they get older their tone will probably settle down.

Quote from omnimorphism

The best vocalists aren't the most successful, so companies don't have an incentive to go for it.

Just put one main vocalist and your group is good to go.

It doesn’t need to be a technically-driven vocalist. Just enough to know how to approach singing and music in general. I’d consider IU a good vocalist despite not being too technical like, let’s say Taeyeon, because she knows her voice well and plays with it through her song.

In fact, a lot of k-r&b singers have mediocre technicalities as well, but you can very much tell the disparity between them vs idols.

Quote from aespa-von

It doesn’t need to be a technically-driven vocalist. Just enough to know how to approach singing and music in general. I’d consider IU a good vocalist despite not being too technical like, let’s say Taeyeon, because she knows her voice well and plays with it through her song.

In fact, a lot of k-r&b singers have mediocre technicalities as well, but you can very much tell the disparity between them vs idols.

Actually IU might be more technical, there was an interview (Sketchbook?) where she explained how she intentionally chooses fricative consonant sounds, which other singers tend to avoid, as her distinctive delivery, how she uses her saliva for that etc. Quite technical.

Yes, people generally fall for the robust range when deciding on vocal ability, but the key is selecting the right song, right delivery for the vocal range possessed, to evocate emotions in the audience.

And IU has been impressible successful with that.

It is easy to be fooled in think she is all airy, breathy delivery - except that it is intentional and deceptive.

Quote from bbgc

Actually IU might be more technical, there was an interview (Sketchbook?) where she explained how she intentionally chooses fricative consonant sounds, which other singers tend to avoid, as her distinctive delivery, how she uses her saliva for that etc. Quite technical.

Yes, people generally fall for the robust range when deciding on vocal ability, but the key is selecting the right song, right delivery for the vocal range possessed, to evocate emotions in the audience.

And IU has been impressible successful with that.

It is easy to be fooled in think she is all airy, breathy delivery - except that it is intentional and deceptive.

That’s actually what i would call opting for “stylization” since she opted for a style of singing that is usually not done by most technical singers.

She’s technical in a way that she KNOWS WHAT SHE IS DOING, but stylistic because she opts for a singing that is usually not what you’d see on divas like, let’s say, Ailee, etc.

Rosè is more on the same. She knows her stuff about music, can rearrange songs to her liking, and has a background of choir singing, but she opts for the style that she does best.

This is not a dichotomy in a way that singers are one or the other. It’s kinda like a spectrum. Some singers are technically-great but also stylistic like Hyolyn, Baekhyun. Some are purely technique-extravaganza like SoHyang or Chen. Singers like Taeyeon usually changes up styles, etc.

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What is going on with vocals these days?

My theory is that people saw that fans would hype up many people who didn't sing properly if they had good pitch and sounded good, so that is why all these groups are coming, but this is crazy. SO MANY idols do not have basic vocal pedagogy or support techniques. I am so afraid for several of these idols that are going to struggle later on when their voices start to decline and won't do as well. And half these idols are minors? Even worse. IDK but I'm just really disappointed in how unhealthy many idols are. Yes this includes most of the new debuting groups, including ones I like.

What happened?

Are you sure you're not concern trolling here lol? I feel like this entire thread is gonna be about shading idol vocals.

Idols dont sing enough to damage their voice, at least nowadays. They dont sing live often, and even when they do, they literally only sing like 10-30 seconds per song. Unless they start doing those crazy Broadway schedules where the stars are singing extremely difficult songs nonstop for hours each day, you dont have to worry about their health.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Are you sure you're not concern trolling here lol? I feel like this entire thread is gonna be about shading idol vocals.

Idols dont sing enough to damage their voice, at least nowadays. They dont sing live often, and even when they do, they literally only sing like 10-30 seconds per song. Unless they start doing those crazy Broadway schedules where the stars are singing extremely difficult songs nonstop for hours each day, you dont have to worry about their health.

The real deal here is a lot of idols dont have the ear for singing. They’re off pitch even when theyre just singing while standing on their encore as ive seen with that Enhypen link. Let an r&b or a band artist with weak technique sing that and they’d do a better job just because they know how to sing on-tune.

Quote from aespa-von

That’s actually what i would call opting for “stylization” since she opted for a style of singing that is usually not done by most technical singers.

She’s technical in a way that she KNOWS WHAT SHE IS DOING, but stylistic because she opts for a singing that is usually not what you’d see on divas like, let’s say, Ailee, etc.

Rosè is more on the same. She knows her stuff about music, can rearrange songs to her liking, and has a background of choir singing, but she opts for the style that she does best.

This is not a dichotomy in a way that singers are one or the other. It’s kinda like a spectrum. Some singers are technically-great but also stylistic like Hyolyn, Baekhyun. Some are purely technique-extravaganza like SoHyang or Chen. Singers like Taeyeon usually changes up styles, etc.

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Well it is all in the definitions. You can choose it call it 'stylization',

But without good grounding in the 'technical', such 'stylization' is not possible.

As to changing styles - again using IU as the reference, Modern times is quite different stylistically from Palette, or Coin from Lilac.

But I will stop here, subjective terms of definition, result only in recursive discussions.

Quote from aespa-von

The real deal here is a lot of idols dont have the ear for singing. They’re off pitch even when theyre just singing while standing on their encore as ive seen with that Enhypen link. Let an r&b or a band artist with weak technique sing that and they’d do a better job just because they know how to sing on-tune.

True, when it comes to most pop music, technique is mostly irrelevant. Pop music is mostly about the beat, instrumentals. Half the time the singers are rapping or talk rapping or talk singing. Good vocal technique aint a requirement to have a good song or a hit song.

I agree about the in tune thing. Even without great technique, most fans would be ecstatic if you could just sing in tune, just get the damn pitch right lol.

Problem is that idols just have to fit a TON of other standards, which makes it difficult to find someone who can check off all the boxes.

Korean visual standards.

Korean body standards.

Dance.

Sing.

Work ethic to slave away for 100 hours each week as trainees/rookies.

Personality for social media and fanservice.

Character.

Something has to give and a lot of time it seems vocals are left behind.

Imma spam my girl Morissette once again, which i always do when it comes to vocals. Despite having the best female voice in pop music today, she will never be the first superstar Filipino idol in Kpop even if she wanted to be one, because of her visuals.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

True, when it comes to most pop music, technique is mostly irrelevant. Pop music is mostly about the beat, instrumentals. Half the time the singers are rapping or talk rapping or talk singing. Good vocal technique aint a requirement to have a good song or a hit song.

I agree about the in tune thing. Even without great technique, most fans would be ecstatic if you could just sing in tune, just get the damn pitch right lol.

Problem is that idols just have to fit a TON of other standards, which makes it difficult to find someone who can check off all the boxes.

Korean visual standards.

Korean body standards.

Dance.

Sing.

Work ethic to slave away for 100 hours each week as trainees/rookies.

Personality for social media and fanservice.

Character.

Something has to give and a lot of time it seems vocals are left behind.

Imma spam my girl Morissette once again, which i always do when it comes to vocals. Despite having the best female voice in pop music today, she will never be the first superstar Filipino idol in Kpop even if she wanted to be one, because of her visuals.

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You’re right. And I can totally stan idols even if they are icky live, but that doesn’t mean that i’d convince myself that it’s good.

Morisette is one of my favorite vocalists of this generation. But yea, nowadays, no one’s really looking for the power vocal kind of song. Even Ariana Grande moved on from her power vocal songs to settle into r&b. The standard for technique fell, but atleast most of american musicians know how to find their tune.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Agreed.

I think Kpop performers should be called "Pop-ctors", because the Stage/Screen presence is the primary quality required.

So visual/physical comes next. Ability to sing well, dance, rap are just the next level of skills. They just need to be above average in that.

But somehow the fandom has the need to be convinced 'suspension of disbelief' that somehow their fav, could look fantastically good (no sweat), dancing a perfectly synchronized choreo, while singing pitch perfect (without huffing puffing) - is all escapist fare.

There is a reason they are called 'idols' and not singers/actors/dancers/rappers etc.

Yet somehow Kpop got associated with music industry more than others spheres, though it is package deal - Jack of all arts, king of none.

If they happen to be experts in any one - singing, dancing, rapping, that is a bonus. But what matters is whether they can romance the crowd.. or rather the camera.

Quote from bbgc

Well it is all in the definitions. You can choose it call it 'stylization',

But without good grounding in the 'technical', such 'stylization' is not possible.

As to changing styles - again using IU as the reference, Modern times is quite different stylistically from Palette, or Coin from Lilac.

But I will stop here, subjective terms of definition, result only in recursive discussions.

That’s why i said it’s a spectrum. I personally haven’t seen a stylistic singer that doesn’t know any technicalities regarding music. things like finding the tune, phrasing, etc. These people KNOW music theory. And im betting my ass they all know how to play instruments.

The one you mentioned about IU is her phrasing regarding consonants. A lot of stylistic singers do this. Rosè modifies her phrasing as well. A lot of k-rnbs i know do this. Dean, Heize, etc.

Also all those songs do not differ on how they were sang by IU, they differ because it’s a different music. Kinda like how I would say Ariana’s Thank U Next’s singing isn’t really different than Position despite sounding different.

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What was that

dancing and visuals are now the top priority, companies invest less in vocal training, and companies like Sm that train like idols well in vocals still have them lip sync because companies and idols are obsessed with perfection. It is concerning but this is the age of lip syncing and auto tune and every other pitch corrector so it makes sense why a lot of groups cannot sing live or just flat out suck. Back in 2nd gen before lip syncing really started to take over a lot of idols were good singers because they had to be, they couldn’t lip sync. Now idols can lip sync and turn up the backing track to camouflage their voices. It sucks because you feel bad for idols when they go on encore stages and just really can’t sing their OWN song. It’s like what happened to your training? did you even get good vocal teachers?

Do you like CRAXY'S vocal line???

What's your opinion about SWAN AND CHAEY?

*Yep, me promoting the girls lowkey*

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actually I'm really worried for stayc.

stayc in particular, no one has strong support.

With their bang bang cover, I was super afraid for them

I don't think they were never trained, BUT they practiced a ton to get stable.

If they keep straining, they're going to decline a lot more. They put in the effort, but not really in the right place if that makes sense, they practiced on getting stable. Did their company help their vocals with a vocal trainer?

they're popular because they are stable and consistent but no good technique.

Purple Kiss is a different case: Goeun is a good vocalist but my bias Swan is quite stylistic and shouty at times, but she knows her limitations very well, so I think she can improve a lot. I wonder if she produces because she has a good stylistic ear, which causes others to overhype her. They know what they are doing.

Aespa are confusing. I cannot get a good enough gauge because they are not out for very long and they haven't sung too many times. They remind me a little of Weekly's strongest singers. Ningning is strong, but she does have some pitch issues. Winter is probably around Goeun-ish. Karina is actually a very strong singer, I'll rank her above Jihan. Can't do Giselle yet because she didn't sing in Knowing Bros. They're the strongest vocal line so far but I'm not sure of that.

Weekly are good singers, they have several weak members but a few stronger ones. Monday is really cool.

Pink Fantasy are really good but Yechan is a 95 liner so she's been around for a while.

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I don't really know much about StayC and Purple Kiss cuz' I just heard they had good vocalists...

With Aespa the problem is that they almost never sang live to properly judge them, I've only heard Ningning in knowing bros and was slightly impressed but it didn't blow me away, with Winter I've only seen her sing that beat drop from Next level in a radio show and was disappointed.

About rapping I thought Giselle was okay but her Tia tamera and Cherry bomb rap covers were not it...

Karina is okay I guess..

Can't really say anything about other 4th gen bgs and ggs.

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Swan is very nice. She's technically an "average" vocalist but for now, she's an above average vocalist. Very impressed. A safe bet. Chaey is not as strong, she is shallow but she's not bad!

I like them. Remind me a little of BVANDIT's vocal line.

Thank you for your feedback!!!

I really enjoy BVNDIT'S vocal line as well!