The lack of team cohesion of Illit - different origins means different directions

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    This short clip, where Illit covers New Jeans' attention dance in Weekly Idol. shows everything we have to know about Illit's team cohesion.


    In the dance, Yunah makes sure that Minju is NOT seen, by completely covering Minju.


    The Japanese dance by themselves.


    I won't even comment on Wonhee, who does not seem to know where she is.



    Hybe is unique among major companies that it accepts trainees who started at other companies. Cube is like the last resort of people who trained at other places , like Miyeon of Gidle who would have become part ofBlackPink if Lisa were not added, but Cubeho h is not a major company.


    The act who had the most complex origins in my memory was GFriend.


    GFriend member's origins

    Sowon - trained at DSP

    Yerin - trained at Fantagio. Also rumored to have trained at ACube, APink's company, not confirmed

    Yuju - trained at Loen when it had IU

    SinB - trained at Big Hit

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    A forgotten song by JoKwon of 2AM, remembered for featuring Seokjin, Yoongi, Hoseok, Taehyung, Jungkook and ... SinB.


    after the Glam fiasco Big Hit closed its girl group division and she moved to Loen. An employee of Loen moved to Source, taking Yuju and SinB to there, and


    Eunha - a bunch of things

    Eunha had a bunch of experiences here and there, not really notable but still something. SinB knew Eunha for a long time and recommended Eunha to the employee who brought SinB to Source.


    Only Umji was originally trained by Source, and not surprisingly, there were a lot of friction between Yerin-Yuju and Eunha-SinB, which continues to this day.


    Sowon was chosen as the leader , not because she was the best, but because she was the weakest. She had no charisma and no skills whatsoever, but that was why she did not make enemies and she is not hated by both factions.


    Illit's case is even worse.


    Yunah is technically the oldest, but she trained at Fantagio.


    Meanwhile,

    Minju trained at YG

    Iroha trained at JYPE.


    So, Minju and Iroha trained in more prestigious companies.

    Which is why Yunah could NOT become the leader of Illit (there is no official leader but it seems Minju has become dominant).



    A Fantagio trainee cannot order a YG and a JYPE trainees around.


    Moka trained in Hybe Japan. Her past before joining Hybe Japan is not known. When she joined Hybe Japan I don't think she expected to be a girl group member in Korea which is why she didn't really spend too much effort learning Korean or singing like Koreans.



    Only Wonhee is native to Hybe.


    There simply nothing unifying the members. Not surprisingly there are no chemistry or no cohesion in that group, at all. There are a couple loose cliques, Yunah - Wonhee, the Japanese and Minju by herself, but that is not too strong since Iroha holds Moka in contempt while Wonhee has a personality of annoying everyone around her.


    As long as Illit is rising, these cracks will be buried. But when Illit begins to do worse, these fractures will manifest themselves in the most messy way.

    i think as i predicted magnetic to do PAK or RAK they wont do too good in the future as their group status isnt that much interesting or maybe if they change their concept on the next comeback to a really interesting one they might have something

    The problem with ILLIT is that as a survival group, their concept was most likely ready even before the show ended and the members were known. Yunah is talented and their 2nd best singer but she doesn't really fit their current concept.


    The competitiveness and jealousy on their time on the survival show would always cause a rift between the members even though they may gotten closer after the group was formed.

    Quote from BLACKPINKBRO

    i think as i predicted magnetic to do PAK or RAK they wont do too good in the future as their group status isnt that much interesting or maybe if they change their concept on the next comeback to a really interesting one they might have something

    It was originally intended to be an act mostly focusing on Japan, like Seventeen or some other acts.


    Since we don't know how the New Jeans mess will be concluded, everything is in a flux. It is likely that at least some of the songs intended for NJ would go to Illit instead.


    However by 2025 the whole thing would be behind us, so they will probably mostly work in Japan


    It won't be possible for them to repeat Magnetic's success given that the internal division of that gorup is so severe.

    Quote from MochaCinnamon

    The problem with ILLIT is that as a survival group, their concept was most likely ready even before the show ended and the members were known. Yunah is talented and their 2nd best singer but she doesn't really fit their current concept.


    The competitiveness and jealousy on their time on the survival show would always cause a rift between the members even though they may gotten closer after the group was formed.

    Only Wonhee was selected thru the show. The other 4 were selected by the company


    Yunah and Moka actually would have been eliminated if the strict criteria were used.


    So it is kind of an anti-survival show. There was no real competition since Bang Jeemin , who is now in Iland2, would not have been selected and the current members were kinda pre selected except Wonhee


    Youngseo's departure made Yunah very awkward in the group, but I think there are some contract issue which makes it hard to get rid of her, so she will just be carried along , doing not much

    i mean, if what you said about certain GFriend members supposedly having friction between each other is true, then surely it's something that won't necessarily affect ILLIT's performance abilities if the GFriend members could still be as in sync as they were during their active years? It's really just a matter of time and practice.

    Where is the history analogy??



    It isn't over until the fat lady sings.

    I like Jisoo's statement about trouble between members.


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    In reality, we need ILLIT cb to check this. So will they continue to do that in the future (be favorite in 5th Gens gg) or stay like FF with only one best debut song. Nobody doesn't know.

    It's funny you mentioned cohesiveness b/c as someone who's super into astrology their signs are not that cohesive either.


    We don't have birth times (for good reason), so I can't read their 11th house and see what their true cohesiveness in a group looks like but based on sun sign alone, Yunah has the highest compatibility with everyone across the board (if I had to put it into percentages, she's a 70% or higher match with all but Moka who I'd place closer to mid or low 60s), while Wonhee and Iroha are very incompatible astrological and Moka is kind of meh with everyone except Iroha. This isn't indicative of what they'll actually be like behind closed doors of course, but I did find the mix interesting when I looked it up back in September.


    I also think not having Youngseo does work against them at least little as far as cohesion in both visuals (she would've been a gap between the rest of the members and Yunah), personalities (they only have one extrovert now and it made the variety content a little painful at times), and astrology signs as Scorpio is another sign that gets on very well with the rest of the group (again except Moka, Libra signs, in general, tends to not bond as easily with earth and water which is a majority of the group).


    Again this is all pseudoscience, but it's still interesting to look at.

    I am not into astrology. Obviously Moka would be more comfortable with Iroha since they speak Japanese, and cutting Youngseo really made Yunah awkward.


    I don't se a mention of Minju, but for all practical purposes she is now driving the group. Wonhee is not in a position to resist, so it would be probably MInju-Moka rivalry which will decide the group's future.

    We will have to wait for 7 years till we hear the fat lady on illit

    Quote from WhyKnock

    We will have to wait for 7 years till we hear the fat lady on illit

    It's aphorism. Another one for you, "The game isn't over until the final out". As I said before only until Illits future cb.


    All your threads are only your hypotheses, not facts. If you're not part of Illit's team/BeLift's managers or part of their families, you know nothing.


    Illit/Slow Rabbit needs to back it up with a successful sophomore album, part of their "Summer Moon" Lore. If they don't do it, after a few years except for fans nobody doesn't remember them.




    "The game isn't over until the final out" is an older aphorism

    Quote from bzzz

    I don't think illit's success(?) is organic and is largely effect of HYBE's payola. You have one chart-topping group whose members nobody cares. My theory is HYBE faking up illit's success to discredit Newjeans/Min Heejin.

    I think the sucess, payload aside, is just what happens when a song is viral. The song is simply more viral than the members, it's to a point where I've heard it while shopping and it's reminiscent of both Cupid and Any Song. The song is an earworm. However, outside of Moka going viral for being really cute, there hasn't been much about the members.


    Their first comeback will be more telling imo, as it seems that right now there's mostly casual listeners and a small fanbase from runext and their debut.

  • AllKill VIP

    @Cold_Wave right, this show is for fun.


    IVE / NMIXX. Nobody can say these groups have a problem with teamwork. The Korean show needs fun and idols give him this.


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    Quote from SerendipitousYun

    I think the sucess, payload aside, is just what happens when a song is viral. The song is simply more viral than the members, it's to a point where I've heard it while shopping and it's reminiscent of both Cupid and Any Song. The song is an earworm. However, outside of Moka going viral for being really cute, there hasn't been much about the members.


    Their first comeback will be more telling imo, as it seems that right now there's mostly casual listeners and a small fanbase from runext and their debut.

    But, Cupid success is not completely natural. At least, it was heavily bloated with playlisting.

    Neither the song being viral explains the astonishing physical sale.

    Do you seriously believe all articles about Moka so cute and Wonhee so pretty are organic?

    Quote from bzzz

    I don't think illit's success(?) is organic and is largely effect of HYBE's payola. You have one chart-topping group whose members nobody cares. My theory is HYBE faking up illit's success to discredit Newjeans/Min Heejin.

    Looks like they are well received in Japan, where it does matter

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    Quote from bzzz

    But, Cupid success is not completely natural. At least, it was heavily bloated with playlisting.

    Neither the song being viral explains the astonishing physical sale.

    Do you seriously believe all articles about Moka so cute and Wonhee so pretty are organic?

    Jeon Hongjun's mediaplay. It was organic


    If Jeon can float whatever he is now pushing, then I will recognize him. I don't think whatever he is doing will go anywhere, like everything else he touched.


    About Illit members, there are some good receptions from Japan and the West, which cannot be easily faked.

    The difference is they would have practiced the hits of New Jeans, and other major acts , quite a few times during their training.


    Attention is like the introduction of New Jeans. I believe one of the members did a New Jeans number to pass the initial screening into Hybe.

    This group is now simply dependent on NewJeans, if they change the concept they will confirm the fact that they used NJ for noise given the low popularity of RUNext. If they continue to use the NewJeans concept, they will have to come up with something different from MHJ's ideas. The only positive way out of this situation is the dismissal of MHJ and the eternal hiatus of NewJeans, so that illit can continue to be with this concept.

    :pepe-use-head:

    Quote from naviiiera

    i mean, if what you said about certain GFriend members supposedly having friction between each other is true, then surely it's something that won't necessarily affect ILLIT's performance abilities if the GFriend members could still be as in sync as they were during their active years? It's really just a matter of time and practice.

    GF members trained hard for years, especially after the debuts were delayed. Eunha, who did NOT train with them for a long time, was not emphasized until a year after debut.


    Illit members did not really train together. In a company like Hybe, the trainees are trained in different classes, and none of them saw Wonhee before R U Next.

    Quote from Karl-III

    This group is now simply dependent on NewJeans, if they change the concept they will confirm the fact that they used NJ for noise given the low popularity of RUNext. If they continue to use the NewJeans concept, they will have to come up with something different from MHJ's ideas. The only positive way out of this situation is the dismissal of MHJ and the eternal hiatus of NewJeans, so that illit can continue to be with this concept.

    :pepe-use-head:

    With the departure of MHJ NJ will have hard time reinventing itself.


    I think that Illit will mostly concentrate in Japan after its initial uproar is over.

    Quote from bzzz

    But, Cupid success is not completely natural. At least, it was heavily bloated with playlisting.

    Neither the song being viral explains the astonishing physical sale.

    Do you seriously believe all articles about Moka so cute and Wonhee so pretty are organic?

    I never mentioned articles nor was Wonhee mentioned. I said, "outside of Moka going viral for being really cute, there hasn't been much about the members". That's on me for not clarifying, but if I had to be specific for discussion's sake, I suppose I was referring to fancams as Moka seems to have the most viewed fancams across platforms (and it's a pretty wide margin). That's not me saying she's a viral sensation, but rather that most of the interest I've observed from people who are not stans is typically in Moka due to her fitting the group's concept really well.


    You didn't refer to physical sales originally, just broad success, so I assumed you meant their digital achievements, my mistake. I'm not sure what a "normal" number is for physical sales, but I don't think 500k is really anything to balk at (I have also never, in my many years of being a K-pop fan, paid attention to physical sales outside of it being brought to my attention that someone sold 1 million copies, and even then it's in one ear out the other). What number do you think they're meant to have?

    Quote from WhyKnock

    I am not into astrology. Obviously Moka would be more comfortable with Iroha since they speak Japanese, and cutting Youngseo really made Yunah awkward.


    I don't se a mention of Minju, but for all practical purposes she is now driving the group. Wonhee is not in a position to resist, so it would be probably MInju-Moka rivalry which will decide the group's future.

    Out of curiosity, what do you think the difference would be between Minju vs Moka would be for the group's future?

    Quote from SerendipitousYun

    Out of curiosity, what do you think the difference would be between Minju vs Moka would be for the group's future?

    Minju is more into singing while Moka is more into performance. Also if Moka is emphasized which means the act will concentrate more in Japan where Minju's singing ability will be for nothing since that is not the Japanese way of singing, so she will be more sidelined.

    Quote from SerendipitousYun

    I never mentioned articles nor was Wonhee mentioned. I said, "outside of Moka going viral for being really cute, there hasn't been much about the members". That's on me for not clarifying, but if I had to be specific for discussion's sake, I suppose I was referring to fancams as Moka seems to have the most viewed fancams across platforms (and it's a pretty wide margin). That's not me saying she's a viral sensation, but rather that most of the interest I've observed from people who are not stans is typically in Moka due to her fitting the group's concept really well.


    You didn't refer to physical sales originally, just broad success, so I assumed you meant their digital achievements, my mistake. I'm not sure what a "normal" number is for physical sales, but I don't think 500k is really anything to balk at (I have also never, in my many years of being a K-pop fan, paid attention to physical sales outside of it being brought to my attention that someone sold 1 million copies, and even then it's in one ear out the other). What number do you think they're meant to have?

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    Almost 600K. For rookie group with a small fandom it is good sales.

    Quote from WhyKnock

    The difference is they would have practiced the hits of New Jeans, and other major acts , quite a few times during their training.


    Attention is like the introduction of New Jeans. I believe one of the members did a New Jeans number to pass the initial screening into Hybe.

    Only "Attention" and only on RU Next. And "Attention" was practiced only by Yuna and Moka.


    And who? This again rumors?

    Quote from Raynen

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    Almost 600K. For rookie group with a small fandom it is good sales.

    These results look like sajaegi, Babymonster having a huge fandom and popularity, sold the same amount against a group that is only played in shopping centers. So I would not believe in the reliability of these indicators.

    In general, Illit's success is so inorganic that I don't believe at all that they have popularity comparable to their positions in the charts. Since their debut, this group has been involved in Spotify boosts, and now they are simply taking advantage of the results.

    Eh, I don't think they're lacking much, just maybe some members doesn't suit the cutesy concept, but it's normal for a survival show group. They have a lore Summer Moon incoming, and we haven't even seen their comebacks, TBH. If anything, Belift delivers amazing music. Anyway, they have a massive hit "Optimus Prime" with "Magnetic" and a mini rising star Lucky Girl Syndrome. They have done a lot more damage with their debut to some people egos, and one of the reason this debut will go down in history when it's all set and done.

    :pepe-shrug:

    Quote from Karl-III

    These results look like sajaegi, Babymonster having a huge fandom and popularity, sold the same amount against a group that is only played in shopping centers. So I would not believe in the reliability of these indicators.

    In general, Illit's success is so inorganic that I don't believe at all that they have popularity comparable to their positions in the charts. Since their debut, this group has been involved in Spotify boosts, and now they are simply taking advantage of the results.

    You are confusing the timeline.

    Babymonster debuted in November 2023 to a digital single that was not well received and missing a popular member. It was considered a low effort BP ripoff that was years out of style.

    ILLIT debuted with a huge bop that was very well liked, so its debut sales were very good.

    Babymonster first album and single Sheesh were awesome and well liked. But many fans in Korea took a wait and see approach, but they still had very good sales of 400,000 albums the first week. Remember that BM had a huge SEA fanbase, but those fans don't buy albums.

    NOW the Babymonster fanbase is growing in SK and getting a lot stronger, as they realize this is a very talented and appealing group with staying power. They are killing it in the live shows and variety. ILLIT is stuck in a turf war with New Jeans and they are likely going to get hurt from further.

    Babymonster has been destroying ILLIT on fan votes for the music shows, but ILLIT's Magnetic is a killer bop and just killing it on streaming. It is a very much a viral and mainstream, GP friendly hit. There is no denying it. But it isn't easy to replicate them and Lucky Girl Syndrome, a pretty good song, isn't charting at all.

    The next album for Babymonster is likely to have a much higher first week sales than ILLIT. If ILLIT can still produce bops, they can build a good fanbase, but it seems just much more casual fans than Babymonster. But ILLIT just doesn't have the talent to probably keep on producing hits over and over. They are cute as hell and will play well in the Japanese hand shake market, but if they produce duds like STAYC does once in a while, they will fade in popularity like GFriend or Itzy did after coming out with a bunch of meh albums after their first few huge hits.

    Anyways, that history makes that ILLIT had better debut sales plausible because of the timing and failure of Batter Up. But that advantage is pretty much gone with the knife that MHJ stuck in ILLIT and BM's talent and appeal.

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